Nazism finds home in America

[Glaurung]

yes, but there are a lot of murders everywhere. not everybody is tracked down. not everybody is punished. we do the best job that we can.

"Shows what you know. The holocaust was in the 20th century. Fanatic goverments, such as the one in Iran and the Taliban are killing people because of their religion and their ancestor's religion.
The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is, however, about land, not about race. There are Israeli soldiers who are Jewish, Muslim, Christian, and Druze. The Palestinians are people from all around the world that their ancestors lived here so they have many groups of people coming from different countries."

hmm, i thought we were talking about america? well, here in america, murder is illegal. speaking your mind is not. besides, it is not possible to change the 1st amendment. and, there is no reason to. if i say that i hate jews(which i do not), people will think i am stupid. they will not arrest me. because, everyone is entitled to an opinion, and if we do not have one, we are just ignorant slaves to the liberal government.

you kids ever read 1984? is that your ideal lifestyle? well, that is all that not having freedom of speech can lead to.

btw, in america, if someone says you are going to go shoot up a school, the police will come to your house and arrest you.

"How about the 2 nazi kids that started shooting at entire school, or the nazi activists that opened fire on a jewish kindergarden..."

that has nothing to do with the freedom of speech. freedom of speech has nothing to do with psychos who act on their own free will, and dont tell anyone.

 

[Drekken]

Originally posted by Fayadi
My father's friend in New York was driving a car when somebody stopped his car,pointed gun at him and demanded for money.A country where a bad guy can posses gun is really unsafe.Have any of the Republican propose an idea to ban gun?I thought Republicans are the most conservative politicians in the country?

Hey! Leave guns out of this. Guns don't kill people, people kill people. I've used a gun before [hunting...animals] and yet I have not commited any crimes. Besides, gun control is the surest way to have ONLY bad guys using guns.
BTW - Republicans are the ones that are protecting America's guns, and rights. We need some of them here in Canada.

 

[Maj]

That's a myth.

Comparatively speaking, the United States is the democratic country with the highest personal gun to capita ratio.

Gun control is a very mucky issue. Everyone would agree that a gun is a tool of violence, but whether that tool promotes, or merely plays an insignifcant part in violence are two important conflicting points in gun control arguments. Also, the aim of that violence, whether it be to hunt down animals or gun down people is an moral issue that blends into the argument. Obviously, one is widely tolerated, the other isn't.

Now so I don't go too far off topic, I'd just like to say that I agree with others when speaking of the trade off between freedom of speech and freedom of idiocy/ignorance/hate/etc... To surrender the former to be rid of the latter would do greater general harm than good.

-Maj

 

[BlueMonday]

Originally posted by IceBlaZe
How about the 2 nazi kids that started shooting at entire school, or the nazi activists that opened fire on a jewish kindergarden...
is that not enough for you?

I don't see how the first amendment has anything to do with this. To start off with, the two Columbine kids hardly qualify as nazis; they were merely two loners with access to firearms driven to killing by non-stop tormenting from peers. They didn't even think the damn thing up, they just were copycatting a half dozen other teens who had taken to the trend of pumping lead in people who made fun of them. What they did doesn't even qualify as a hate crime. Free access to information had a miniscule part in the Columbine incident, instead it was their daily interactions with peers.

Now the jewish kindergrten thing is a little closer to the mark but still a dollar short. Yes, he was a neo-nazi, but free flow of information was not the cause of his violence. The guy was raised in a racist household -taught from day one that he had to hate blacks and jews like all those infants you see at Klan rallies dressed in little KKK uniforms. In that instance the guy was not influenced to kill 5 year olds because he read it on the internet, he was conditioned by his parents.

People are not perfect sponges. They don't all of sudden one day run into an Aryan Nation website and say, "Yeah, let's kill some kifes!" If they did, they probably wind up on a Black Panther website and then say, "Yeah, let's kill some honkies." People don't function that way. When they see something like that they have a program in their head which assesses it and either says Yes or No. That program doesn't just one day magically appear in their mid-thirties while they are reading a few racist blurbs. They're inperfectly programmed by every experience and interaction they have up to that point, with particular emphasis on the childhood years and parents.

In the end, it won't mattter if we end up having a state controlled press which would block out every remotely racist statement thought of so long as morons are still out there teaching others to be ingnorant. But most importantly, it is not the government's position to censor out speech of any kind not matter how foolish or racist it is. We all have our right to say what we will; that is one of the only guarantees an American citizen has. But as I said before, the first amendment protects only the speech and free spread of ideas; it does not, under any circumstance, protect any crime thereof.

 

[Sixchan]

Guns don't kill people, people kill people. I've used a gun before [hunting...animals] and yet I have not commited any crimes.

Don't both kill people? You commited a moral crime in my book, but that's a different matter, and possibly a new thread.

Guns should be left out of this discussion, though. There are already far too many guns in circulation in the US for any gun control to be effective.

 

[FearlessLeader2]

Originally posted by Fayadi
These racist groups should be quelled like how Chinese governments (I dont support the CCP,but I hate cults!) quelled Falungong cult.

Like Tiennamen Square? I saw in the papers and on CNN how your gov't 'handled' the Falun Gong. And yet the UN lets them into the WTO...

Originally posted by Fayadi
These NAZI has potential to become Mr Bean Laden you know.Many US people cant see these cults can cause racist problems like in Middle East,even though somebody here say many people ignore them,but the bad guys will follow them.Jobless people will follow them
They can influence people to do crimes,

Is that what your gov't told you about the Falun Gong? Seems to me they were a bunch of people doing a new version of Tai Chi to gain some health benefits, and maybe practicing a form of pantheism. Hardly a dire threat to life and limb. Tell me, what schools did the Falung Gong blow up? How many suicide bombers walked into Shanghai malls?

Originally posted by Fayadi
In America guns are everywhere,I heard there a lot of murders in America and the police sometimes cant track down the culprit

That's because in this country, the laws are based upon a Constitution written in large part by a man who believed that it was better for 10 guilty men to go free than for one innocent man to be wrongfully punished by his gov't. That man was Thomas Jefferson. It took me a long time to realize it, but he was right. Justice is less important than mercy.

The PRC should give mercy a try.

 

[FearlessLeader2]

Originally posted by Sixchan


Don't both kill people? You commited a moral crime in my book, but that's a different matter, and possibly a new thread.

Guns should be left out of this discussion, though. There are already far too many guns in circulation in the US for any gun control to be effective.

Welcome back, poster formerly known briefly as Six!

As far as the guns go, I'd like to point out that the 2nd Amendment exists to protect the right of American citizens to change their government if they feel the need to. By arming it's citizenry, the USA acknowledged that it might one day need to be replaced, and was extending to its citizens the right to do so. The fact that any gun control laws exist in this country whatsoever, is probably a signal that that time is rapidly approaching.

And once again, for the record, no gun has ever aimed itself at someone, and pulled its own trigger. Only a human or a well trained monkey can do that. And a human would have to train that monkey. People kill people, period.

 

[FearlessLeader2]

Originally posted by Fayadi
My father's friend in New York was driving a car when somebody stopped his car,pointed gun at him and demanded for money.A country where a bad guy can posses gun is really unsafe.Have any of the Republican propose an idea to ban gun?I thought Republicans are the most conservative politicians in the country?

I could point out that if your father were an armed American citizen, he could have shot the guy as soon as he pointed his gun elsewhere.

Free American political science lesson--
American Conservative = more freedom, less government oppression
American Liberal = less freedom, more government oppression

 

[Sixchan]

And once again, for the record, no gun has ever aimed itself at someone, and pulled its own trigger. Only a human or a well trained monkey can do that. And a human would have to train that monkey. People kill people, period.

And no man has ever shot someone without a firearm.

Do heavy drug overdoses kill you?
Does Heart Failure kill you?

Neither of these things kill concientiously (sp?) but no-one doubts they kill you.

That last statement should be:

People kill people with guns.


Hmm, bad grammar, but you know what I mean.

 

[FearlessLeader2]

Guns are but one small entry in a VERY long list of things people use to kill each other. To imply that people will have no means to do so after the guns are taken away is callow, facile, disingenuous, and a whole lot of other euphemisms for just plain dishonest and misrepresentative of the facts.

People can kill a whole lot of people with a can of petrol and a cigarette lighter. Are you going to ban gas and cigs too? You can't win on this battlefield, I advise you to pick another.

 

[amadeus]

Originally posted by Fayadi
A country where a bad guy can posses gun is really unsafe.Have any of the Republican propose an idea to ban gun?I thought Republicans are the most conservative politicians in the country?

I'm a Republican, and the party platform is that we want LESS federal gun control, not more.

Secondly, nobody would put a ban on guns totally (though officially we've banned automatic weapons, etc...), because many people have guns for good reasons -- and many of them are decent, hard-working Americans.

If a man has the conviction to kill another man, he will, regardless of the tools he carries. Knives, poison, etc... -- the solution to that wouldn't be banning all knives, or banning all food.

And it is true that in countries where criminals possess guns it is unsafe, and you must be wary about who possess a weapon, but guns will not be removed from criminal areas just because of the legislators in Washington saying so.

The truth is, much of this crime stems from the illegal drug problem in the United States.

 

[Fadi]

Originally posted by rmsharpe


I'm a Republican, and the party platform is that we want LESS federal gun control, not more.

Secondly, nobody would put a ban on guns totally (though officially we've banned automatic weapons, etc...), because many people have guns for good reasons -- and many of them are decent, hard-working Americans.

If a man has the conviction to kill another man, he will, regardless of the tools he carries. Knives, poison, etc... -- the solution to that wouldn't be banning all knives, or banning all food.

And it is true that in countries where criminals possess guns it is unsafe, and you must be wary about who possess a weapon, but guns will not be removed from criminal areas just because of the legislators in Washington saying so.

The truth is, much of this crime stems from the illegal drug problem in the United States.

There is some problems with English language here,Are you supporting the Republicans or YOU ARE REALLY REPUBLICANS?It is impossible ,people at their ages dont hang out in forums and I THOUGHT Politicians are damn busy?ANyway its a good joke!

 

[Simon Darkshade]

He means he is a member of the Republican Party, not that he is a Republican Senator, Congressman, or boy who makes the tea.
I support gun ownership and use, and look envious at the US legislation on this matter compared to the situation here.

 

[amadeus]

Originally posted by Fayadi
There is some problems with English language here,Are you supporting the Republicans or YOU ARE REALLY REPUBLICANS?It is impossible ,people at their ages dont hang out in forums and I THOUGHT Politicians are damn busy?ANyway its a good joke!

I'm a Republican, but not a politician. Just a typical high school student.

 

[Fadi]

You have my support I love Republican....
A new question how many members does Republican party have?
A gun is invented to kill
A Nuclear warhead is invented to kill(in total destruction)
These killer stuffs should not be played around as they all are invented at the first place to kill
There are a lot of shooting incidents in the U.S i heard from people and news correct me if i am wrong

 

[Fadi]

Originally posted by FearlessLeader2

Like Tiennamen Square? I saw in the papers and on CNN how your gov't 'handled' the Falun Gong. And yet the UN lets them into the WTO...

Is that what your gov't told you about the Falun Gong? Seems to me they were a bunch of people doing a new version of Tai Chi to gain some health benefits, and maybe practicing a form of pantheism. Hardly a dire threat to life and limb. Tell me, what schools did the Falung Gong blow up? How many suicide bombers walked into Shanghai malls?

That's because in this country, the laws are based upon a Constitution written in large part by a man who believed that it was better for 10 guilty men to go free than for one innocent man to be wrongfully punished by his gov't. That man was Thomas Jefferson. It took me a long time to realize it, but he was right. Justice is less important than mercy.

The PRC should give mercy a try.

First of all I WANT TO MAKE IT CLEAR I DONT LIKE CCP but I hate cults to the bone(so I am not defending for the chinese govt)
Falungong members go to Tiananmen square to burn themselves alive.
The chinese govt dont kill Falungong members.Perharps an evidence?
In China now you could speak up your opinion,If you realise that China is totally different from a decade ago,China accession into WTO is a should and it helped the chinese govt to rethink their whole Communism idea to Capitalism (yeah like what they are doing now)through trade of course!

 

[FearlessLeader2]

Originally posted by Simon Darkshade
He means he is a member of the Republican Party, not that he is a Republican Senator, Congressman, or boy who makes the tea.
I support gun ownership and use, and look envious at the US legislation on this matter compared to the situation here.

If you envy the heavily infringed right to keep and bear arms in this country, then I can only assume that you have no rights whatsoever.

Anyone who has ever read the 2nd Amendment and possesses the capacity to comprehend the English language must be absolutely dumbfounded by the existence of any form of gun control law in this country.

"The existence of a well-armed militia being neccessary for the preservation of the state, Congress shall make no law infringing upon the right to keep and bear arms."

Someone want to explain to me the legal loophole in that statement that allows for the existence of even ONE gun control law? In point of fact, that amendment forbids legislation against ANY weapon. It should be legal for me to keep a Minuteman missile in a silo in my back yard, with a 40 megaton payload in it, if I so desire. If I want to drive an M1 Abrams MBT to work, the only limitations on my right to do so should be a driver's license and the ability to pay for one. Should I desire to take a pleasure cruise on an Aegis missile cruiser, again my only limitation should be the ability to afford one, and the skill to pilot it. Wearing a sword at my waist should not even draw attention, let alone a brace of pistols to back it up. A slung M16A2, with an attached M203 40mm grenade launcher loaded with a phosphorus round should cause no concern in my neighbors, other than to not trespass, and keep their hands off my property. It should scare the hell out of would-be criminals, and make the gov't think twice about trying to infringe upon my other rights, but that's about it.

Now I am not advocating nuclear weapon ownership by private citizens, nor do I think civilians should own military grade hardware beyond the infantry level. But the US already has a very bad track record (under the last administration at any rate) of observing the rights of its citizens. Waco and Ruby Ridge come to mind as human rights abuses. The answer to this problem lies in reminding the gov't that it exists to serve the public, and that it can be replaced by the public should they see the need to do so.

This is a gov't "of the people, by the people, and for the people", not a government that controls or owns the people. Taking away our guns takes away our right to enforce that creed.

While I am a citizen of the US by accident of birth only (my kingdom is no part of this earth), it stuns me to see people who actually embrace their citizenship not only ignore their government's violation of some of their most basic rights as citizens, but that they actually call for more of those rights to be taken away every day.

Let the words of history speak for me, in this case, the words of one of the men who built this nation:

"Those who are willing to trade liberty for security deserve neither."
-Benjamin Franklin

 

[CurtSibling]

This is interesting.

Hypothetical situation:

So if the whole population of Boston decided to take over the
Government complex at Washington DC, because they suddenly do not like George W Bush's reign.

They are entitled to massacre thousands for their ideals and in turn get annihilated by US mechanised divisions, and this all OK!

I'm glad I don't live in the USA.

FearlessLeader2, your taste in weaponry is of course, impeccable.

But I fear if I lived next door to you I would have to be patrolling
in my PzKw VII King Tiger, and have my Romanian Sniper troops
on 24 hour alert!

 

[Drekken]

Originally posted by Sixchan

You commited a moral crime in my book...

I was refering to the criminal code of Canada not individual's morals.

Originally posted by FearlessLeader2

Someone want to explain to me the legal loophole in that statement that allows for the existence of even ONE gun control law?

Liberals can't read I guess. Even the mighty US constitution can't stand up against hordes of morons.

 

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by FearlessLeader2
"The existence of a well-armed militia being neccessary for the preservation of the state, Congress shall make no law infringing upon the right to keep and bear arms."

Someone want to explain to me the legal loophole in that statement that allows for the existence of even ONE gun control law?

I'll take a crack at it. The actual ammendment reads: A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.