NC by T60?

[Martin Alvito]

Don't need to test this. It is pretty map dependent. You will find though that using a tradition 3-4 city NC start you will finish Education ~110-115 depending on whether you researched construction or BW or not (I never do if I can help it).

You can get Education sub-100 with the right dirt and a quality civ.

The single biggest variance factor after Education is the number of DoFs you can sign to power RAs. Unfortunately, that isn't knowable until well into the game.

 

[JeSuisNapoleon]

Thought so. But hoped there might be someone out there who pulled off a barbarian rampage with little regard for this "science" thing...

Yes, using Germany, you CAN literaly use a huge wave of barbs as your army, and science can become "less" important, as you could potantialy run away with the game, especialy on a large open map with lots of barbs. Germany can get luky with the geography of the map and become unstoppable by farming barb huts all game long, winning domination.

even then, you should build the NC, especialy because germany never needs to build units in this scenario. They can focus on city improvements quite a bit. The problem becomes happiness and puppets, among other potential problems.

also, its always nice to get *some* wonders, and without having decent tech you are less and less likely to get the ones you realy want, especialy later on in the game.

 

[Buccaneer]

Never until I have too. The longer I wait, the fewer turns it will take to research it. I do not research it just so that I ready for an imagined threat. I will even forgo masonry if I don't need it.

Regarding imagined threats, isn't one of the key indicators in determining whether an AI will declare on you is the strength (or lack thereof) of your army?

 

[Gruminmor]

It's either a mixup of game speed, or people just being idiots on the internet pretending they're amazing by just making stuff up. This happens constantly on the forums here, I mean we have people claiming to clear whole maps by turn 150 or winning by science on turn 200, and it should be apparent that these people are full of it.

I mostly play MP so I'm used to quick speed, and I can tell you yes you can get the national college by turn 60.. sometimes turn 50. But that is only when you DO NOT build a settler first, and instead build growth buildings in your capital (granary, watermill) and go straight to philosophy. I don't see how it could be done with several settlers in first though, although turn 70~80 with 2 or 3 cities can for sure be done, given the right conditions. This usually involves settling your 2nd and/or 3rd city on a hill with a plains tile you can work. With liberty, a city like that pumps out a library in 10~12 turns. So yeah, if you rush the settlers out and put them in spots like that, you can usually get the national college queued up in your cap around turn 55~60 and let it build. But no, any claims to have 4 city national colleges up on turn 60 are pretty much guaranteed to be epic lies. And this is at quick speed I'm referring to... if they're talking about standard there's just no possible way.

Not quite lies. I only play quick speed due to playing so much MP. Standard or longer just feels... Wrong. Now having said that, I've pulled out 4 cities with NC before turn 60(!) Yes luck was involved(a lot), and yes its not an easy feat to duplicate. But it is possible, on quick speed, but just not likely. And as for winning a science victory in under 200 turns, not a problem. My best to date is 178 on immortal. And if you dont believe me, you can find my profile on steam and see for yourself.

To pull the NC 4 city rush requires the GL, which in turn requires some luck. So if you get the GL at around turn 22-24 you can get the NC by turn 32-35. Then you hard build one or two settlers and then buy whatever you're missing. Easy.

The biggest issue with pulling this off (provided you have no hiccups along the way) is that you're bound to piss someone off. And because all your focus is on science and settlers you'll have no army what so ever. But that's rather easy to overcome.

 

[Tachii]

I also get mine made usually around T90-100.

 

[Resipsa]

regarding imagined threats, isn't one of the key indicators in determining whether an ai will declare on you is the strength (or lack thereof) of your army?

while its not optimum in. A pinch you can build catapults and pikeman to defend

 

[slowcar]

while its not optimum in. A pinch you can build catapults [...] to defend

Why would you want to do that? Do they have moving cities that attack you?