Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Mizar, Jul 15, 2016.
IMpressive win Gumbolt! Do you have any screens to share?
Spoiler Other info from final save :
Probably should have. I had only taken down 1 Ai by 1000bc.The key here was cheap 2mp units. When you are whipping 30 hammer chariots instead of 60 hammer phants and the Ai is using vultures/archers it becomes much easier to mop up after catapults.
For some reason I built the Oracle in 1280bc. Took MC. I never reached machinery. Probably helped with flurry of trades after MC.
Looks like I declared on Hammer 1760bc. Destroyed 1200bc after 1 ceasefire.
Declared on Alex 725bc. Destroyed 575bc. 3-4 cities.
Cyrus 400bc. Destroyed 200bc. 4 cities.
Gilga 125bc.Destroyed 375AD. (Final city took 6-7 turns to reach.) 10-11 cities.
Indians - 150ad - Delhi captured - 425AD - Would still not capitulate. 10-11 cities.
Hannibal declared 250 Ad -450AD offer to capitulate. All 3 cities gifted back. 5 cities.
Romans - Never touched.
Had a failed attempt on MOM wonder. Eventually got a lot of gold for this. 300-400.
Used nearly 500 gold to reach Feud in 2 turns near end. 476 beakers at 100% at end. Then 10% science for 1 turn.
I did switch to rep but didn't really bother with a GP strategy. Only had 2 all game. First was a priest. 2nd a scientist that I never used. Could of got optics I guess.
Built 42 war chariots, 37 HA, 36 pult, 7 axe, 6 WE, 6 archers, 5 spears and 4 swords. 143
I killed 50 archers, 15 pults, 15 spears, 14 HA, 13 swords, 10 bowman, 9 vultures, 8 chariots, 7 axe 2 xbow and 1 phant. 146
So pretty much losing units 1 for 1. I lost a lot of units on Delhi attacking at 60% defences using 4-5 pults.
Near end I had prepared a further stack for India and Hannibal. Sumerian stack once done was mostly split up and soem sent to Indian front.
Hannibal stack had 15-20 units. Indians stack started with 10-12 units. My Sumerian units were made of 2 initial stacks filled with pults/HA and war chariots. WC vs vultures is no match. Spears were mostly nerfed by catapults. Sumerians had strong defences in their first 2-3 cities. After this it was just a matter of numbers. Took quite a few of his weaker cities with just mounted units.
Only me and the Indians actually got feudalism. I had to run wealth a lot of the game too. I was losing 30-110 gold a turn. It was crazy at times.
Sorry for lack of pictures. I was just finishing off an old game I had half started 2 months ago. SGOTM slowed me down. Will see what other games I have to finish off.
@Gumbolt - very nice victory. A few questions:
How many cities did you raise, or did you keep them all? Did you have to build gold from some/a lot of cities?
How did you end up getting techs? Dedicate the capitol to research? And/or just use gold from captured cities to sprint to techs?
Thanks in advance.
Spoiler More thoughts :
Suprisingly didn't raze too many cities. By 1ad I had 18 cities. I was losing 79 gold a turn. but had 30 beakers from rep. At this stage I lacked COL, 3 turns off monarchy. No Aesth, compass or machinery. By 475ad the only really other techs I got was monarchy, COL and Feudalism. Never got CS. So swords, axe, pults, phants and war chariots. You don't need much science for this.
At 1ad 5 cities were running wealth including the capital. Most of my teching was done before 1000bc. Mix of wealth and research. I didn't get many techs from peace treaties as I was wiping out the AI 1 by 1. Capital did have 6-7+ cottages.
Mainly used gold from capture and wealth to keep economy on positive side. Yes most cities at some points were running wealth. Golden age for 8 turns really saved my economy.
I lost around 1800 on Deity... I really thought I could win this one, but eventually Asoka was so much ahead he was competing against himself in a space/domination/cultural race.
Didn't build the Pyramids (I actually don't really understand why they are so good, is there a guide somewhere ?), got a total of 7 cities, I bulbed paper and education which I both could trade for a total of maybe 2500 gold, which fueled my research toward cuirassier techs.
Go all necessary techs short before 1000AD and wared on Carthage on 1040 AD, because he was obviously going to get military techs too and I wanted to take him down before that. It worked as I managed to get 4 cities incl. capitol before he got riffle, at that point I vassalized him (1180AD)... Probably my first mistake. Maybe I should have let him free ?
Second target was Babylon, who shortly got attacked by Greece after that. I managed (after a reload ) to stop Alex from picking one city, got Babylon then again vassalized Babylon who still got 3 cities... I have no idea why, probably I was tired and thought I could roll over the map and just vassalize everyone and get a dipl victory. Anyway that gave me the opportunity to surprise attack Alex and ruin his cuirrasier stack. Sadly Asoka attacked Alex too and got 2 of his cities very quickly with tanks, I got the rest. However these 2 cities proved to be a huge pain in the ass because of the huge cultural pressure they had.
Got attacked by rome (tanks+inf), pushed them back, took one city then settle peace.
At this point everyone had tanks and infantry except me, so I tried to recover my economy (courthouse everywhere, build factories, trigger golden age, transform babylon in super millitary city) but this was made difficult because Rome just ruined my economy with Mining Inc. I was still hoping for a all-in tank rush - after all Gilgamesh finally entered a war against Asoka, which might have slowed down both, but Asoka just stomped Gilgamesh - when Asoka launch his spaceship and rome declared war on me probably out of frustration. I set all my cities to produce culture and let all my citizens have a last moment of fun before the inevitable doom.
Anyway it's the further I got with deity and the hints from that "transition to mid game" thread were very useful, I didn't ruin my capitol and could tech up to rifling/steel without problem, and got more nice trades.
One thing I'm wondering is what I should have done after going for rifling. I tried going for infantry but everything is so far away... In immortal I could overwhelm the other civs with cannons+rifle but on deity the tech and number makes it seemingly impossible.
I'm also wondering if it's worth changing the improvement tiles, it looks to me like the game stops so early in deity anyway, you don't really have a change to make use of the new improvements.
Here are some screenshots!
Didn't build useless crap! I hope!
India so far away.
India's where the party at.
My empire a few turns before the defeat.
I might reload that starting save on Immortal and try to get a cultural victory, I don't think I even won one since I stopped playing in Monarch
edit: after reading this entire thread I guess I should have gone for the Pyramids and work 2 scientits in each of those coastal cities... Most of them didn't have a lot of good land to work.
Monarch to deity is a huge leap!! Do you win on emperor and immortal normally?? Hard to really give you any great comments here. I just went all out attack from start. Deity Ai start with 2 settlers and much more bonuses. 1000ad for cuirs on deity seems late given the AI tech pace. The longer the game goes on the harder you will find it to win due to the deity era bonuses.
Rep scientists are better than gold mines after the 3 hammers are becoming less important than gp points (usually after the settler phase). If you can combine good beakers output with great peoples generation, that's optimal for deity midgame breakouts.
All depends on if you are giving up too much for them (AIs stealing good city spots?), but if you have the freedom for Pyras every hammer you put in are countless beakers later.
Not difficult to understand, and they also solve any happy problems you may get otherwise
I used to play on monarch when CIV 4 went out, so I had time to train I win some games on immortal now, but I want to beat deity once so I can brag to my brother this Christmas
@Fippy: retrying with the pyramids now (cultural victory on immortal), they really do cost an arm and a leg. However my tech rate is quite good now, first to music (beaten to lit), I just chopped libraries everywhere and work scientists when it doesn't stop the city growth. Just clicking end of turn and not thinking about invading my nearest neighbor kind of feels like playing civ V
Gave this one a try on Imm Normal. Less pressure
Until 1140 AD
Spoiler Story :
SIP as I saw no reason to move. Didn't have an immediate reason to go for AH so I went pottery-mining 1st.
Did just scout the surrounding area but met everyone pretty quickly anyway. Decided to worker steal from Babylon, but not sure if it was the right thing. Settled 2nd city by the horses to the east and gave up on failgold from the stone wonders which might not be the best move. Made peace with Babylon after taking out a bowman but he was going to hate me from now on. Went for a 3rd city by the sheep to the east and took a barb city with my chariots by the coast. After that I could settle the cities behind the borders at my leisure.Played very peaceful and got currency very early. Went for Bureau right after. Only got Buddism to spread which was problem as my neighbors were hindu. So I kissed ass and stayed out of trouble. Built TGL and got some failgold from a few wonders while teaching along. Alexander was to no surprise in wars all the time. 1st vs Rome and then vs Persia. 1st one ended in a stalemate and the 2nd ended with Persia vassaling to India. Sumeria also had declared on Persia so that was a nice war. Perisa ended up getting crushed leaving him with 2 cities and later broke free from India. Rome dowed Carthage later taking 1 city before making peace. Bur Rome was never player in this one as he was really cramped in. Babylon was doomed from the start as his expansion got hurt early on. So was Hannibal and Alex with too little land. So it is clear Sumeria and India are the 2 big ones. Babylon was going to dow me at some point but I delayed as much as I could giving him what he wanted. Went early nationalism and built the Taj without marble which probably wasn't the best move as I didn't have MoM.As I was in a good pos with techs I went eco before taking MT with lib. Then Babylon finally dowed me and he had the most pathetic stack. I made a decision right there and traded Nat+Edu for PP+GP getting me very close to cavs early but also made it almost certain Sumeria would get it faster too. Cuirs was enough to take out and vassal Babylon though. Now I am a few turns from rifling but Sumeria can also research rifling and nobody else is really close. It looks like I will just take out the others 1 after te other until Sumeria is left and let everyone pile on him. Was nice to have silver in cap and enough to settle 8 cities with ease.
Spoiler Conquest 1520 AD :
So, I went for Hannibal 1st as he was closest and even though he bribed Greece on me it didn't save Hannibal who gave up quickly after I took his capitol. After that I just got rifling and upgraded my cuirs giving Greece no chance on his own. Strange as it was Sumeria went for Communism and other stuff so I went after him trying to do as much damage as possible before he got rifling. He big stack was sitting nicely in his persian border city which made it very easy to pick off. By now I had many cavs so his cities went quickly after that. By the time he got rifling he was ready to capitulate. Persia just peacefully vassaled to me. What India had been doing all this time nobody knows, but it wasn't anything constructive. Democracy, corporations did nothing and he was all alone making it very easy crushing him and his small stack. Rome was so backwards which was the reason I left him for last. The biggest challenge with that war was to move my army all over the continent. After taking out his entire stack with outdated units he folded right away making the conquest complete. It just really helped a lot when Persia refused to vassal to Sumeria and vassaled to India Instead. It prevented Sumeria from expanding and getting him into a worthless war where he could gain nothing. All the others just had very little room getting more than 7 cities each which also helps a lot.
Egypt just have such nice traits, units and techs, it's nice
Going full culture here. Not sure if Elephantine will suffice as a cottage spot, but I guess it's gotta be. Or can you really make your NE city one of your legendary spots? Not sure about that, never tried it. I don't have Marble, so no Sistine Chapel and so far also no NE yet. I assume the standard route would be to go to Lib and then stop teching? If you can, maybe Lib PP? Also I don't have 9 cities, just 8. Hoping to found Taoism though so at least 6 Cathedrals. Not sure whether it would be worth it to go back into slavery at some point to be able to finish those quicker.
Anyways, from the Diplo side there doesn't seem to be any problem. All Hindu except for Osaka, which quickly solidified my decision to go culture. Earlier Hannibal was in Judaism and asked me to convert, which I did. But at that point he was already plotting on me and Hammy started to plot as well after I switched. Hannibal then switched to Hinduism (and left me in the Judaistic rain) but got declared on himself. I could also switch back to Hinduism in time to be able to beg from Hammy who then stopped plotting. Wasn't always stress free this game
1802 Culture Win on Immortal. Very well suited for Culture this map is, if the religion thing plays out the way it did in my game.
I started playing this on Deity then noticed i had already posted multiple times in this thread and played the map last year. Oh well.. i didn't remember the first thing about it so it's not like it impacted my game.
Haha, nice one! 2 x the fun for you! Would be fun to see a writ up about the second attempt as well.. if it differs a lot from the first one..
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