NC CLXXXI - Suleiman - Ottoman Empire

Deity 175 AD

Spoiler :
I settled 1NW and went for Mining > BW first. On T6 i could already see Hammy's 2nd city right near me.
Spoiler :


Worker farmed 1 FP then mined the northern gold then chopped 1 forest to speed up the settler. I was hoping i could get the northern cows site to block off some land, but that got settled the same turn i got my first settler out. I settled the corn + shared gold site instead. I also teched AH after BW in hopes of finding horses for a possible HA rush. Two horses popped up, nice!
Spoiler :


Needing a couple more cities for a good HA rush, i teched Fishing and settled the two seafood sites. The corn city whipped the WBs so that the seafood was online the same turn the cities were settled. I used a few more chops on the settlers since Istanbul was pretty weak for settler production. The two city sites weren't fantastic, but they had some food and they had forests.

Early research was strong enough that i was able to tech Math pretty quickly after HBR to boost a lot of the chops going into HAs. I attacked Hammy in 700 BC with at least a dozen HAs + 2 chariots. The first city captured was pretty decent. Unfortunately he used his great prophet here though and not in the Hindu holy city.
Spoiler :


I took 5 cities off Hammy and then opted to extort him for some techs rather than kill him off. CoL was a big pickup since it allowed me to tech CS next.
Spoiler :

Spoiler :
Situation after making peace.


I had a worker shortage for quite awhile, but this certainly helped. Two free barb workers in 225 BC right between two AI cities. That was definitely a first!
Spoiler :


I'm working towards Lib right now. Traded for Calendar, chopped out the MoM in Babylon, and just started my first golden age. MT makes a lot of sense since i still have 10 HAs (and a GG chariot) that can be upgraded to Cuirs.
Spoiler :

I'll probably cottage over the farms here soon.

 
@izuul
Spoiler :

I'm jealous of your bureau cap. I'm going to have to move my palace, with the way i settled...
 
@izuul
Spoiler :

Nice start, HA rush and launching position! for a Lib MT rush!

Do you build barracks/stables for your HA rush? Granaries/libraryes?

Spoiler :
Most cities get granaries. Usually not many libraries. I had one in the capitol here with the double gold and a FP cottage. Barracks are good if the city is going to produce a good many HAs and if you have time. If you have to delay building HAs to build a barracks, don't do it. Stables almost never. They will almost always compete with HAs for hammers and the extra 2xp isn't worth the delay.
 
Immortal, normal, NH, NE, 1828 Cultural victory.

Spoiler :
I just wrapped up two conquest and one diplomation game this past week, so I wanted to do something a bit more peaceful this time around. After having played it out I wish I had gone aggressive as that is what this map seems to be begging for.

I SiP after initial warrior move didn't see any food and zooming in on the fog didn't seem to show anything either. I settled fp/horse/cow site NW of the capitol to block off my eastern land from Hammurabi. He actually beat me to my first choice by a turn or two, but I wasn't that upset because I knew I could still get 6-7 cities. Third city went to the clam/horse SW of the capitol to further block Hammy. These three would also be my legendary cities. Remaining cities were cow/stone/gems in the north, crab/cow to the east, and gold/corn in the south. I could have squeezed another in near the iron or wine, but with such poor food it didn't seem remotely worth it.

I decided on culture as my VC when Hammurabi founded Confucianism in the city closest to me and Gandhi predictably sent Hindu missionaries my way. I knew catching a third religion seemed likely, and I didn't feel like breaking out of my comfortably acquired adequate chunk o' land if I didn't have to. In hindsight, this was a very doable option on this map, but far from the best one. Why, you might be asking (probably not if you played the map and saw the better options :D )?

1. No access to marble. Without either this or IND trait, the wonder game is tougher to win. I lost both GLib and Sistine by a couple of turns a result, and should have just taken the failgold all the way to Lib cuirrasiers. But I am stubborn :) Also, slower cathedral type buildings for some religions.

2. Only Charlemagne would trade Copper and I could never get it out of his hands. No copper and no marble meant I slow built all of my cathedral type buildings :yuck:

3. Food-poor land and consequently a mediocre GP farm. I was still able to pull 11 GAs out of the GP farm and 2 from another city, but that's more of a testament to the power of PHI than the city or my ability.

4. No FIN/SPI/IND to offset any of the above. Not necessary, but would've helped a lot.

5. Diplomatically I got very lucky to pull this off. Gandhi was the real MVP for me, spreading Hinduism to Ragnar, Roosevelt, Ragnar, and me. Without the Hindu love in the air my date would probably have been later due to a defensive war or two. All that really mattered to me was that I was in Hammurabi's state religion as he was in position to be a nice meat shield for me.

6. Ragnar. Holy smokes. He vassaled Gandhi, Hammurabi, and Charlie in my game and kept Roosevelt and WVO down to 6 cities each. He also built Taj about 3 turns before I took Nationalism with Lib :crazyeye: Might have been some GE shenanigans though. I was surprised by all of this until I saw that the map maker had moved Ragnar to a better starting position. Just goes to show that the CivIV AI leaves a lot to be desired. Had Ragnar wanted to, you know, win, there's not much I could have done to stop him as I was firmly entrenched down the peaceful builder route. Charlemagne did eventually break free, but I was about 25 turns from winning at that point.

TL;DR Up to immortal you can beat this map just about any way you please. I'm sure good enough Deity players could have their way with it as well. If you want to really enjoy yourself with this one though, REX peacefully then go for Cuir -> Cavs -> Tanks or Jannisaries -> Cannon -> Rifles -> Infantry and :ar15::ar15::ar15: all along the way.

Edit: forgot to add that I did have a first for a culture win and managed to get 2 cities to legendary on one turn, and the 3rd to legendary the very next turn. I've always been able to get them within ~5 turns of each other, but never back to back. Felt good.
 
@MeowZeDung
Spoiler :


hmm maybe I made him TOO strong...

There's a suspicious lack of everyone else finishing their games. I bet they got rolled by Ragnar ;)
 
I'm working on it on Immortal.

Spoiler :
There was enough good land for a peaceful game, but meeting Ragnar early on with apparently nothing but wussies on my continent got me scratching my head.

I decided to go Cats + swordsmen to take Hammy out, he has a decent cap and marble, so I could get the classiscal wonders and just become a juggernaut if I can combine the teching + warring.

500 AD Hammy is FINALLY dead, I'm at 13 cities with universities building, took a jungle city from Ghandi and now have to decide how to get ready for Ragnar, I hope he attacks me soon so I can farm XP from him :p He hasn't managed to vassal Ghandi yet.

Wonder how deep I can lib, I haven't made contact with Willem yet.

 
and now have to decide how to get ready for Ragnar, I hope he attacks me soon so I can farm XP from him :p

Don't wait for good fortune - declare on him yourself (and let him come to you) ;)


For the record, I couldn't beat this game on Deity. I tried

Spoiler :
taking out Hammy with Trebs + Crossbows (Engineering bulb) after only being able to settle 4 cities peacefully. The problem was that Hammy could expand to 13 cities in the west and did so. I took three cities from him without many casualties, including his capital, but then just couldn't progress, I still had too little units to take his next city and he was just outproducing me while I didn't take it. That was while he was STILL in war with Charlemagne so you can imgaine how it would have gone without that.

I think the map is doable on Deity, as Izuul shows us, if you take down Hammy before he can reach that size. Though it's hard to know in time for a Horse Archer rush that Hammy will have so much land.
 
Don't wait for good fortune - declare on him yourself (and let him come to you) ;)


For the record, I couldn't beat this game on Deity. I tried

Spoiler :
taking out Hammy with Trebs + Crossbows (Engineering bulb) after only being able to settle 4 cities peacefully. The problem was that Hammy could expand to 13 cities in the west and did so. I took three cities from him without many casualties, including his capital, but then just couldn't progress, I still had too little units to take his next city and he was just outproducing me while I didn't take it. That was while he was STILL in war with Charlemagne so you can imgaine how it would have gone without that.

I think the map is doable on Deity, as Izuul shows us, if you take down Hammy before he can reach that size. Though it's hard to know in time for a Horse Archer rush that Hammy will have so much land.

Spoiler :
More often than not HAs are going to be the best play when boxed in early. That's option #1 for me unless i have some god-tier UU to use instead. If HAs aren't possible you have to start looking into other things like Construction rush. The Engineering bulb with Suleiman can work, but it would be tough here because there just aren't good city sites that don't require fishing. And of course you are also giving the AI at least 25 more turns to expand before you will be ready to attack.
 
Interesting start. An overabundance of commerce but no food specials. I think that's a good challenge for Deity. I'm just playing the opening now and

Spoiler :
Barbs are pretty much non-existent with us starting boxed in on a bit of a peninsula. Definitely makes for a fast start despite the lack of space. HA rush seems obvious. Waiting any longer will just mean too much of an AI production advantage to overcome.


@ Georgjorge

Spoiler :
I wonder at what date the 'Mids went in your game, and if it would have been possible for you to build them considering the nice stone/green cows/gems spot? 4 cities is definitely super tough for anything later than elepults and even then...but rep/philosophical scientists and then police state might have swung it in your favour?
 
Spoiler :
More often than not HAs are going to be the best play when boxed in early. That's option #1 for me unless i have some god-tier UU to use instead. If HAs aren't possible you have to start looking into other things like Construction rush. The Engineering bulb with Suleiman can work, but it would be tough here because there just aren't good city sites that don't require fishing. And of course you are also giving the AI at least 25 more turns to expand before you will be ready to attack.

Spoiler :

Izuul, would you still recommend this approach with Hammy having Copper in the BFC and Iron just a few cities to the north ? I am only playing on Immortal, and even though I generally am not afraid attacking a target that has metal with HA, the fact that he builds quite a decent amount of units made me go for cats instead. I wonder how hard it would be to HA rush him here on Deity ?


NVM lol, missed your writeup.... you make it look so easy ^^
 
Immortal marathon 1240ad
Spoiler :
Lib-miltrad 675ad, gupowder 750ad, capped Gandhi easily 800ad. Capped Charlemagne (very annoying, I captured four cities including his capital and he promptly capped to my ally Ragnar. I immediately declared on Ragnar, captured four more Charlie cities before he broke free from Ragnar and capped to me instead). I've taken eight Viking cities so far, only eleven more to go. Its not all bad, I've got cavalry and just got steel, Rags has grens and cuirs but getting closer to rifling (aka cannon-fodder).


General comment (not for active players).
Spoiler :
Taking out Hammurabi is the easy bit. You've then got Charlemagne (protective LBs and landsknechts to blunt a cuir rush) and almost certainly a powerful Ragnar. The last two (Roose and Willem should be easier).
 
Imm, nhne, normal.

Turnset 4: To turn 154 (880 AD):

Spoiler :
Spoiler :


With Hammurabi on the ropes I decided that with marble and lots of trees to chop in Babylon I could make a go at the Parthenon and the Great Library, so directed research thataway.

Spoiler :


Charlemagne got a little fist, but then asked me for a deal. Nice, I gladly gave in.

Spoiler :


I was beaten to the Great Library, unfortunately, before even finishing Literature.

Spoiler :


But will be finishing the Parthenon.

And Hammy is finished!

Spoiler :


In other, more unfortunate news, Charlemagne's fist never went away and he's got a big stack encroaching on my territory:

Spoiler :


Sure enough,

Spoiler :


He took one of my recently captured cities and then prepared for a showdown on the hill.

Spoiler :


Try again fool.

Spoiler :


Stacks keep coming, though.

Spoiler :


And meanwhile, off the southern shore.

Spoiler :


Two bad news. The first is acceptable: Charlemagne razed that city up North. Fine, whatever.

Spoiler :


But :mad::mad::mad: do I hate these barb galleys.

Spoiler :


I mean come on. 11.3%. :cry:

Back up north we were just being silly. I was trying to make the most out of the units I had left over from my way with Hammy. I built very few new ones. So I recapture the city Charlemagne had taken and then prepared for yet another showdown on the hill.

Spoiler :


In the above screenshot you can see the raised city collection we have going on in the Eastern Jungles.

Tip: Don't let your national epic city cannibalize great person production of your other cities.

Spoiler :




I used that Great Scientist to bulb philosophy and the one that came out a few turns later to bulb paper.

The silly war with Charlemagne continues. He settled a third city in that area in the Eastern Jungles which I went to take.

Spoiler :


I then saw yet another Holy Roman stack heading towards me, and I'm about out of units. :mischief: So I razed that newly settled city in the jungle and then surrendered.

Spoiler :


So at turn 154 things are looking a bit on the ropes. Can we get out of the tech whole we're in? Can we catch up with Ragnar and the HRE? Only time will tell. (Time to do the write-up that is, the game's basically finished).
 
Imm, nhne, normal.

Turnset 5: To turn 215 (1390 AD):

Spoiler :
Started getting out of the tech hole with a couple of great scientist-powered trades.

Spoiler :




Golden ages can also help with a recovery. So I used a Great Prophet to bulb one.

Things that also help with an economic recovery impending invasion, Gunpowder:

Spoiler :


We'll do our best to keep this idiot occupied, so he doesn't backstab us.

Spoiler :


And the war goes as follows:

Turn 169: 10 trebs, 3 janissaries.
Turn 170: Build units.
Spoiler :


Turn 171: 14 trebs, 9 janissaries.
Turn 175: declare war on ragnar
Turn 176: Take Sippar
Spoiler :

Turn 176: 18 trebs, 32 Janissaries
Turn 180: 27 trebs, 45 Janissaries. Take Tonsberg.
Spoiler :

Turn 193: Take Nidaros
Spoiler :

Turn 199: Capitulation
Spoiler :


Thoughts on the war. Bring a lot of siege. Everything is easier with trebs. I was using Janissaries and trebuchets against castles, grenadiers, and knights. But superior numbers make it all okay.

I peacefully tech towards steel as a great trade bait tech. But it's possible it will find another use. What are Charlemage and his vassal (probably should not have bribed him in on Gandhi, regretting that now) even up to?

Spoiler :

 
HI. I'm new to the NC series but understand how it goes.

I'm still new to playing Civ at high difficulties but know what needs to be done to stay alive and eventually win.

Currently playing on Diety Quick and will post every 20 turns or so depending on what happens.

Turn 20:
Spoiler :

I love using positions the game starts me in so that is what I did here. Put the settler down where he was.

So far I have met both the Babylonians and Holy Romans and have a scout out revealing more of the map.

Currently plan on building a coastal city to the southeast of the starting position and maybe another one to the southwest but that one would be close to Babylonian territory.

As for techs I am currently going for Masonary so I can build defensive walls.
 
Turn 70:

Spoiler :
Half a Million people in Ottoman Empire and just finished researching Mathematics for the UB

Currently building the UB in all 3 cities so I can get the health and happiness bonuses.

I did settle that one city to the southwest and although it was surrounded by Bablonian culture for a few turns it eventually overcame them and is now connected by roads to the rest of my empire.

Just met Gandhi and will probably have to wipe him out before he has nuke capabilities because we all know what happens once Gandhi has nukes!
 
Sometimes the AI Civs can still surprise me

Turn 95:

Spoiler :
OK I needed to post this. The AI just did something that surprised me a bit.

Ragnar came to me hoping I would join him in a war against Gandhi. Since I knew he needed to be destroyed before he got nukes I agreed and declared war.

One turn later. Before I could even build another unit peace is declared automatically and I am like WTF!

Turns out Gandhi immediately capitulated to Ragnar and became his vassal one turn after I declared war. I'm guessing Ragnar basically told him that if he didn't surrender I would come after him because of how much I wanted him gone before he could get nukes.

Other than that nothing else has changed. My culture continues to hold out against the overwhelming culture of the Bablonians and he is Pleased with me. In fact he just gave me Currency for free without me even asking for it. Just came and gave me it.

I also have a Settler in a Galley looking for a place to settle a 4th city but so far have not found any free land. It will only be a matter of time before I either find a spot to settle or just put him back in one of my current cities.
 
@jesbro
Spoiler :

Deity is hard. You're pretty bold skipping straight to it, but I should point out that the difficulty gap between immortal and deity is huge, much larger than the gap between emperor and immortal. So, Good luck, you're gonna need it :p
 
Lost and won the game at the same time.

Turn 300:

Spoiler :
Well a lot of stuff happened.

Around turn 100 a World War broke out as the Holy Romans, Vikings, and Indians declared war on the Bablonians who I considered my allies.

We fought a great war that ended in a stalemate with only a few city flips between the Holy Romans and Bablonians.

At that point I started moving ahead in techs and went for a Science Victory.

However right before I was about to win Hammurabi won with a Diplomatic Victory.

It was a good game and while I didn't win it I am glad that my ally won it instead of Charlemagne or Ragnar.

This is one of the things I love doing in Civilization. If I cant win than I will make sure my ally does.
 
@jesbro: You are new to Deity and almost won a Space victory without ever taking any cities off the AI, staying at - if I read it correctly - 5 cities? That would be an enormous feat already!
 
Top Bottom