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NC LV: Huayna Capac of the Inca

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by dalamb, Jul 31, 2010.

  1. dalamb

    dalamb Deity

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    The Nobles' Club series started out as a way for Noble-level (and below) players to improve their game. Most of the original participants now play at much higher levels, so this has become a way for advanced players to help others learn to play better. You can play your own game at any level and with any mod, but it would be nice to comment on the games of other players and give them advice.

    Our next leader is Huayna Capac of the Inca, widely considered a very strong leader+civilization combination, to the point where some players say playing Huayna is almost a level of difficulty easier. The Inca start with Mysticism and Agriculture.

    • Traits: Huayna Capac is INDustrious (faster wonders and forges) and FINancial (+1 :commerce: on tiles producing at least 2 :commerce:).
    • His UB: The Terrace, a granary that also gives 2:culture:; since one builds granaries in most cities, this is like getting a stripped-down third trait, CREative -- especially since IND and starting with Mysticism make it relatively easy to build Stonehenge for another +1:culture:, if you're not doing an early rush.

    • His UU: The Quechua, a warrior with a free Combat I promotion and +100% versus archers. At Monarch and above, the AIs start with Archery and have archers instead of warriors as their starting units; this makes a Quechua rush very effective at the middle levels of difficulty, which might make some Prince-level players choose to step up a level to Monarch for this game. When you upgrade a Quechua, it retains Combat I, so building many cheap warriors early on (such as for spawn-busting) can lead to a stronger army later in the game -- especially since FIN may give you plenty of cash to pay for the upgrades.
    And the start:

    Spoiler map details :
    Big and small, high sea levels (reducing the amount of land), islands mixed in, most deserts changed to plains. Fixed up a terrible starting position for one AI. Connected some continents with a single AI to other continents. Ensured some AIs got their UU's required resource reasonably nearby. I usually also ensure the resource needed for our own UU is nearby, but in this case the Quechua is resourceless. I thus took a different tack: there's at least one civilization that seemed to me close enough for a Quechua rush to work (at least, at levels where it works at all). I could be wrong; I'm not an expert on early rushes by any means.
    Finally, a cut and paste of our standard doctrine:

    There are no hard and fast rules here: fun and learning are our primary goals, but we do request that you update your progress at various points in the game, using the Spoiler feature of the boards.

    Tentative posting updates are suggested at:

    4000 BC (starting thoughts, no spoiler required for that discussion)
    1000 BC or so (how you decided to progress up the early tech/build paths, which AIs you have met, where you're thinking of putting cities, etc)
    500 AD or so (after establishing some cities and a possible plan of action)
    1200 AD or so (mid-game, Lib race, wars or peace, or whichever happened or didn't, met other continent if applicable, etc)
    1600 AD (or when you have decided on a course of action and a specific victory condition)
    End of game (Victory!!! or defeat, no shame in losing, especially if you tried a higher level. Learning is what we focus on, not fastest win or biggest empire)

    Remember, these are only guidelines. What we really want are your thoughts as the game goes on, so if your strategies don't fall into line with those dates, feel free to adjust your reports accordingly.

    We also welcome players to ask for specific game advice, as we have a number or stronger players who lurk and help out with solid tips, and of course, we help each other. Replies to specific questions should also be in spoilers, with a simple "@" in front of the person the answer is directed towards.

    Special Thanks go to Bleys and TMIT, who really made this series a great one, r_rolo1, mapmaker extraordinaire, for his maps for most of the series, and all of you for playing.

    The WB-saves are attached (zipped; they are bigger than standard saves). To play, simply download and unzip it into your BTS/Saves/WorldBuilder folder. Start the game, and load your favorite MOD (if you use one, if not, check out the BUG MOD), select "Play Scenario", and look for "NC 55 Huayna Noble" (or Monarch, if you want the AI to start with its usual Archery bonus tech, or Immortal for Archery+Hunting, or Deity to add Agriculture). This allows you to play with your favorite MOD at the Level and Speed of your choice. From Quick-Warlord to Marathon-Deity, all are welcome! We stuck with the name "Nobles Club" because it has a cool ring to it.

    Note for those who hate goody huts: open the WB save file with a text editor and delete all lines that say
     

    Attached Files:

  2. dalamb

    dalamb Deity

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  3. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

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    I might do something odd for fun and try playing this game on Noble to see how early I can win. I haven't played Noble in a loooong time.
     
  4. dalamb

    dalamb Deity

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    I might not be able to play through a whole game (RSI :cry:) but might try a Quechua rush at Monarch to see if I can make it work. I have only just started trying Prince occasionally, so it would be a significant step up for me.
     
  5. happyturtle

    happyturtle Mrs GrumpyOldCivver

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    Hmm... not sure if I'll do Monarch or Immortal.

    SIP, worker first, tech Mining. Um... not sure if I should prioritize Wheel>Pottery or BW after that. Then I'll do Fishing after those three.
     
  6. i_imperator

    i_imperator Imperator

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    Ill do this.... as my first monarch game! I just gotta finish my NC Justinian game first, and redo NC peter as an OCC game.Settings>Monarch/Normal/No events. Inca is one of my favourite leaders in this game, and has one of the best UB's and trait sets,Nice UU also (especially for the barbs) the map might be tricky though. I'm not thrilled about our rice resource in this BFC, I might move 1North. Techpath >Sailing(Workboat)>Wheel>Agri >AH>Mining>BW>Pottery>and then writing... Builds>Workboat(for clams)>Worker>Quechua(X2)>Then settlers. I hope we have another food resource in the BFC.
    Feel free to give constructive feedback on my opening plans, and of course advice on how to deal with monarch for the first time (I know the AI's start with a extra worker and archery)!I might even try to pick up TGL and/or colossus if we have stone or copper nearby.
     
  7. vranasm

    vranasm Deity

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    at least the food is better then plains cow+grass cow like i got some game yesterday....

    will see... i will not probably quecha rush, since i tried it in some single play...
    since we are ind i will think about oracle+mc shot with half cost forges.
    and will hope there is another food in caps bfc...with non irrigated rice and clams it would be a lot less fun

    ah but i really love terrace! pottery could be pretty high on list...
     
  8. vranasm

    vranasm Deity

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    if you think about pure quecha rush it's usually done straight from start without worker...and yes it means you will work unimproved tiles...but it doesnt work that great on normal speed, on epic it's doable (it was in some thread here last week in discussion, maybe the week before)
     
  9. paycheck

    paycheck Chieftain

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    I'm still fairly noob but... with on prince w/ inca (the last game I actually played all the way through) the rush is far more effective after starting your second city and getting your main city up to 4 with 2 hills mined and 2 food sources... this is because you can then get a quecha every turn from your main town by whipping whenever you get 6 citizens, and constantly chopping you also have a 2nd or 3rd worker (depending if you made one at your 2nd city) to road to your enemy, and the 2nd town will make a quecha or two as well... giving you about 12-15 units in ~50ish turns. I wiped out an enemy and took 3 towns in 66 turns with this strat... kinda OP in my honest opinion. Then spreading out over ocean tiles and getting early lighthouse and colossas (if you can get your 2nd town on the water with a few hills this is very, very doable, the AI doesn't seem to favor these wonders) your economy skyrockets early in the game, especially if all those sea towns you have have fish/clams then you get 4 gold and 5 food or whatever insanity it is on those tiles, and have 3 trade routes per city at ~200 AD.... just farm up everything, run scientists and watch your tech fly. Anyways, just my 2 cents - I really hate the 1 AD - 1500 AD period of the game... setting up and planning 12 cities is such a bore to me : /
     
  10. L-Plate Ruler

    L-Plate Ruler Warlord

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    Starting thoughts...

    I'll settle in place for the nice hammer bonus and with the UU, will scout one (or two) AI to rush.

    Will play on Monarch, normal.

    LPR.
     
  11. L-Plate Ruler

    L-Plate Ruler Warlord

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    1000 BC | Monarch | Normal
    Spoiler :

    OK, so settled in place for the hammer bonus and got to work improving local resources. I send the Quechua north to explore. The first hut popped a good map of the NE so I cut west then.

    You'll understand my surprise when I met Joao on the first border pop. Obviously this provided a must rush opportunity. So as per the build order below, I opted for that route in stead of doing a little REX'ing.

    Tech path: Fishing, Mining, Bronze Working, The Wheel, Pottery.

    Build order: Worker, Quechua x 3, Barracks, Quechua x 3

    (After deciding to rush I didn't build the work boat I'd have done normally. In the time it would take to build a work boat I could have had enough Quechua to rush Joao.)

    I chopped the barracks to get city attack on any Quechua built there, which helped with the raid on Joao.

    His capital was defended by two archers. I only lost one Quechua during the attack before he was dead :goodjob:

    By this time I'd explored west and found Kublai Khan. Having a personal grudge against him I founded a third city (production focused) between himself and I, and then starting building more Quechua after whipping a Barracks. With a stack of Quechua Kublai's capital fell and shortly after so did his second city. I retained this because it's the Jewish holy city.

    Now having researched Iron Working I'll get that hooked up and have a look at who is north or me, it's possible I'll attack them too.

    I've just whipped The Great Lighthouse which I think is a must get wonder on this map, given the number of coastal cities I'll have in conjunction with being having the financial trait.

    Short term plans: After teching mathematics I'll get Literature for the National Wonders and then Optics and try for a round the world sailing bonus as this will surely be useful later on. I do have a work boat out exploring at the moment who might get it first. Then it's on to Liberalism and we'll see where to from there.

    I really need to get two or three CE cities online quick smart, while currently teching at 90% (running a loss) I'd like to try and stay at 70% or better which I think is possible on this map with this leader... we'll see.

    My empire so far, one captured capital, the other was razed...




    Looking at the victory figures I don't like the rate at which Cyrus is expanding. He's going to be trouble for sure.


    Only slightly ahead on power...

     
  12. i_imperator

    i_imperator Imperator

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    Thanks for the insite, i might do this on epic so.... I've tried a quecha rush before on cartage but it didn't go so well, It was probally because i started with a worker first though. Do you think i should move 1north to get another possible food resource or should i settle in place? I was also thinking about the orcal /MC shot.... But I haven't done that in awhile...
     
  13. vranasm

    vranasm Deity

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    well production seems more like problem... in the try i had corns+forrested PH and it was sufficient to produce quechas in reasonable time...
    in this position i think you should consider growth to size 2 and switching to some hills...
    i didnt open the save yet, but it seems that SIP you settle on PH so it's 2 hammers in cap if i remember correctly, should be probably better.
     
  14. drlake

    drlake Emperor

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    Summer is interfering with my Civ 5 time, but I'm sure I'll give this a shot eventually. I still need to finish Justinian and try Peter as a OCC, plus I've got about 8 other games in progress... sigh.
     
  15. v8_mark

    v8_mark Prince

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    Emperor/Normal, 1400BC
    Spoiler :


    Firstly, I could have, without any effort whatsoever, done a super-super-cheesy Quechua rush and cleaned out most of my continent by this point.

    But that's boring, so I didn't.

    What I did instead was started with a worker and set about expanding in a hurry. The idea is to get 6 cities by 500BC, which should be no problem at all, and will be paid for by the gems and cottages that I plan to put down. The only slight concern is production, which is why I went Oracle -> MC for cheap forges, which are always great (and they make the +1:happy: from the gems +2:happy: instead).

    Joao founded Buddhism and it auto-spread, so I'll convert next turn (and might even take Monotheism -> Monarchy next for some nice, big cities.
     
  16. GGS

    GGS Warlord

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    Monarch/Epic

    This is a fine leader/civ package to attempt the leap from prince to monarch. Okay, so, I read dalamb. The UU should be at its most useful even in these less than perfect hands.

    This Team Inca will settle in place for the extra hammer and eschew the almost-always worker first for a Quechua(s?) to seek a victim. The plan will, of course, be critically rethought if stone appears in the BFC.
     
  17. durecellrabbit

    durecellrabbit Chieftain

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    First time for me to take part in one of these. I'll step up from my normal warlord to noble and see what happens. I think I'll settle in place and go mining unless something shows else shows up on the BFC.
     
  18. dalamb

    dalamb Deity

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    @durecellrabbit: Welcome to NC! Feel free to post when you have major decisions to make. It's fairly common for people to give advice -- especially if you note outside your spoilers that you want some.
     
  19. learner gamer

    learner gamer King

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    Yeah, I read the thread you mentioned (it was on emperor I believe) but can confirm that it was in fact possible on that particular map to wipe out both near neighbours (Nappy and JC as I recall) with nothing more than quechas on emperor / normal. It’ll be interesting to see what approach civvers use here – can they / do they rush with the quechas, build wonders using the organized trait or instead leverage Capac’s financial trait to support a REx? If rushing, IMHO the keys are usually (i) omitting a worker, barracks and anything else for that matter (as you rightly point out) - and just building quechas so you use them in numbers and (ii) using the most hammer intensive tile(s) you have available (preferably a forested plains hill) to build them as fast as possible. Just for completion, my 50(ish) turn save is attached – which I played blind. Have fun everyone! :)

    Spoiler about my game (monarch / normal):

    Spoiler :
    Joao, Darius and Kublai (in that order – like I said, I played the save blind) are all dead thanks to the quechas. Although you’d really want to be working a forested plains hill at the start, the fact that you can settle on a hill for an extra hammer here means that working a forested grassland hill (and then a second at pop two) to pump out quechas is fine. Through absolutely no fault of the map maker (it just shows how high / over - powered quechas are), I have to say that I’m not sure if I’ll continue this one now. :lol:
     

    Attached Files:

  20. Djoums

    Djoums Chieftain

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    Monarch/Epic, 1764 Diplo. Capac is a really good leader :crazyeye:

    Spoiler :

    SIP, no rush. No wonder except the GL in capital (which I moved right after).
    Peacefully expanded to 8 cities, converted to Bud and get Kublai/Joao to friendly.
    Got Lib -> Steel then chain cap : Cyrus, Joao, Kublai and finally Hammurabi.
    Ended up with 33 cities. Bismarck has 22, on higher difficulties I think stopping him is mandatory.

    Sorry for the lack of pics I played it straight :blush:

    The world at 1764
    Spoiler :

    Diplo
    Spoiler :


    Capital
    Spoiler :

     

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