1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

NC LVI: Willem of the Netherlands

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by dalamb, Aug 13, 2010.

  1. dalamb

    dalamb Deity

    Joined:
    May 9, 2006
    Messages:
    3,151
    Location:
    Kingston, Ontario
    The Nobles' Club series started out as a way for Noble-level (and below) players to improve their game. Most of the original participants now play at much higher levels, so this has become a way for advanced players to help others learn to play better. You can play your own game at any level and with any mod, but it would be nice to comment on the games of other players and give them advice.

    Our next leader is Willem van Oranje of the Dutch, whom we last played in NC XVIII. The Dutch start with Fishing and Agriculture.
    • Traits: Willem is CREative and FINancial. CRE means his cities can expand without needing to construct a cultural building first, which helps with early expansion. FINancial means he can afford a large empire and sustain a high tech rate.
    • His UB: The Dike is a levee that gives +1:hammers: on water tiles as well as rivers. It can be very powerful on a watery map, but comes rather late in the game.

    • His UU: the East Indiaman, a significantly improved Galleon: 6 :strength: instead of 4, 4 cargo spaces instead of 3, and able to explore enemy territory -- meaning you can declare war while your invasion fleet is adjacent to its landing tile, instead of having to start outside the opponent's cultural boundaries.
    And the start:

    Spoiler map details :
    Archipelago, snaky continents, medium sea level. I regenerated until I got seafood in the starting location, but made no other edits. Thus: deserts, no guarantee anyone has metals or other UU resources, ... However, a quick glance suggests the AI's don't have huge amounts of room into which to expand without opposition.
    Finally, a cut and paste of our standard doctrine:

    There are no hard and fast rules here: fun and learning are our primary goals, but we do request that you update your progress at various points in the game, using the Spoiler feature of the boards.

    Tentative posting updates are suggested at:

    4000 BC (starting thoughts, no spoiler required for that discussion)
    1000 BC or so (how you decided to progress up the early tech/build paths, which AIs you have met, where you're thinking of putting cities, etc)
    500 AD or so (after establishing some cities and a possible plan of action)
    1200 AD or so (mid-game, Lib race, wars or peace, or whichever happened or didn't, met other continent if applicable, etc)
    1600 AD (or when you have decided on a course of action and a specific victory condition)
    End of game (Victory!!! or defeat, no shame in losing, especially if you tried a higher level. Learning is what we focus on, not fastest win or biggest empire)

    Remember, these are only guidelines. What we really want are your thoughts as the game goes on, so if your strategies don't fall into line with those dates, feel free to adjust your reports accordingly.

    We also welcome players to ask for specific game advice, as we have a number or stronger players who lurk and help out with solid tips, and of course, we help each other. Replies to specific questions should also be in spoilers, with a simple "@" in front of the person the answer is directed towards.

    Special Thanks go to Bleys and TMIT, who really made this series a great one, r_rolo1, mapmaker extraordinaire, for his maps for most of the series, and all of you for playing.

    The WB-saves are attached (zipped; they are bigger than standard saves). To play, simply download and unzip it into your BTS/Saves/WorldBuilder folder. Start the game, and load your favorite MOD (if you use one, if not, check out the BUG MOD), select "Play Scenario", and look for "NC 56 Willem Noble" (or Monarch, if you want the AI to start with its usual Archery bonus tech, or Immortal for Archery+Hunting, or Deity to add Agriculture). This allows you to play with your favorite MOD at the Level and Speed of your choice. From Quick-Warlord to Marathon-Deity, all are welcome! We stuck with the name "Nobles Club" because it has a cool ring to it.

    Note for those who hate goody huts: open the WB save file with a text editor and delete all lines that say
     

    Attached Files:

  2. dalamb

    dalamb Deity

    Joined:
    May 9, 2006
    Messages:
    3,151
    Location:
    Kingston, Ontario
  3. Amao

    Amao King

    Joined:
    May 11, 2002
    Messages:
    735
    Location:
    Shanghai
    Oh, yeah! another game! Thanks!
     
  4. L-Plate Ruler

    L-Plate Ruler Warlord

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2008
    Messages:
    186
    Location:
    New Zealand
    Bugger, with work I'm still at 1000BC on NC LV :cry:

    OK will crank this one out on Prince then go back to NC LV :)

    Starting thoughts, will settle in place but it doesn't look like it'll make a great long term capital for a financial leader like this.

    LPR.
     
  5. Paperbag_Hobo

    Paperbag_Hobo Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2010
    Messages:
    93
    Settling 1 SW makes for a juicy GP farm!
     
  6. Proofeta

    Proofeta Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2009
    Messages:
    33
    Location:
    Porto Alegre/Brazil
    Gonna try to play, only games I finish are NC ones...


    Ok, played until 1100 BC, Noble Epic:

    Spoiler :
    Settled 1 SW, Amsterdam is going to be my GP Farm, now it's running one Scientist.
    Utrecht will be my Production city.
    The Hague will be the gold city, cottage spam it yay.


    Very good city spots, I think.
    So, I decided to attack GK, but no need to rush, as he has no strategic resources.
    I forgot to build de GL, but Utrech already has a lighthouse, do you think it is worh trying it now?
    I need to build a workboat to explore the seas, Amsterdam will probably build it next.








    Yes, I need more workers, but I'll capture 2 next turn :)
    6 Axemans are going to hit Karkorum, while 2 will hit Turfan (one will capture the workers first).

    So, I'm planning to research CoL and then Calendar, I hope I can found Confucionism.
    Should I try to build the Great Lighthouse in Utrecht?
     
  7. i_imperator

    i_imperator Imperator

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2009
    Messages:
    956
    Location:
    Ireland
    Will do this, Monarch/ Epic, No events. Settle in place. Looks like we're near tundra aslo, great :rolleyes:
     
  8. dalamb

    dalamb Deity

    Joined:
    May 9, 2006
    Messages:
    3,151
    Location:
    Kingston, Ontario
    One of the consequences of the request some people made for fewer edits, I think. I figure I'd try a few "low edit" starts and see how people reacted.

    @Proofeta:
    Spoiler :
    I'm a little nervous about going for GLH at 1100 BC, even on Noble, but if you try and fail you at least get a chunk of cash for it. If I start this game I'm going to try for it, and your location for Utrecht looks like a good spot to build it.

    With the relatively small land area of Archipelago, and all that arctic/tundra to the southwest, taking out Mongolia seems like a necessity to me.
     
  9. Proofeta

    Proofeta Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2009
    Messages:
    33
    Location:
    Porto Alegre/Brazil
    Spoiler :
    I managed to get it at 600 BC chopping the 2 forests (I was planning to save them for health, but whatever.)

    Yeah, taking out Mongolia is necessary, but it's very easy, as they don't have any military resources.
     
  10. Amao

    Amao King

    Joined:
    May 11, 2002
    Messages:
    735
    Location:
    Shanghai
    Monarch/Normal

    Played to 325BC, 102 Turns
    Spoiler :

    Settled in place, start a worker and beelined for BW. Warrior going south clockwise, then ventured into the snaky tundra to the west which turned out to be a dead end. Got 2 huts before Khan's scout stepped on them, a map and a little cash.

    Settled SW of copper and researched to AH to work on the sheep first, then Pottery, then Sailing, then Writting, and Masonry by 1840BC. Then capital started to build the GLH by chopping down all trees left in the culture border, while the other city get another settler to the north for the Fish/Clam instead of the Ivory. Khan settled by the Ivory right after I settled.

    Got the GLH by 1240BC, and set up the Marble just a couple of turns later so the Orcale was also in hand by 975BC, picked Monarchy for happiness cap and also because i was right about the researched CoL as well. Then I started the long and painful route to CS and got it at 350BC and switched over the Bureau right away.

    After I got the GLH, I immediately started to settle the eastern land which turned out to be a tiny island. But it's an island anyway, I sent 2 settlers there. And also just pumped another one to get the cow right under Khan's city.

    So, here I am just got Bureau, and academy in the capital but not much of the cottages yet. I'll need to improve my health cap, so compass is nice. However, Khan is get delicious to be taken. So, I decided to nap the construction first and cat/axe him before I researched south for compass. There isn't much land for expansion anyway. BTW, I have fully explored the water. I saw some greenish off the tip of our NE's continent, something like Monty or Saladin. But won't know until I settle a city there or after I got optics. So, consume Khan's land to add more to eco should be a good way to go.

    I'm also torn between the ideas on how to settle the greenland faraway to the west off the tundra. If i settle one city there, the best choice is not to the the fish but to cottage up. or, I got 3 cities there? or not at all? eh....


     
  11. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2008
    Messages:
    25,654
    In place or SE. Either way, worker first.
     
  12. CHEESE!

    CHEESE! On a long nostalgia trip

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2007
    Messages:
    2,221
    Gender:
    Male
    I'll probably settle SE.
     
  13. vranasm

    vranasm Deity

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2002
    Messages:
    6,437
    Location:
    Czech Rep.
    hmm I dont like 1SE settling...loses dike
    the fish could be got by the island to east...
    will play that way probably...fishing+sailing are top somewhere...
     
  14. Proofeta

    Proofeta Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2009
    Messages:
    33
    Location:
    Porto Alegre/Brazil
    It doesn't, the dike can be built in a coastal city.
     
  15. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2008
    Messages:
    25,654
    SE does not lose dike.

    It does lose health.
     
  16. NihilZero

    NihilZero WHEOOHRNY

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2009
    Messages:
    1,161
    Location:
    Dublin, Ireland
    Just noticed this. Doesn't the AI get Agriculture on Immortal? Or am I mistaken? :confused:

    Anyway, if I play this one, settling on the wine is a no-brainer.
     
  17. v8_mark

    v8_mark Prince

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2007
    Messages:
    481
    Location:
    Oxford, UK
    Yay, another NC game just in time for the weekend. I will finish this one...

    Immortal/Normal:

    Time for a jump to the harder of my two difficulties, because it’s such a strong Financial leader. Willem’s one of my favourites, because Financial is my cup of tea, and Creative is a very strong early trait. It looks to be a strong start too, to be honest...

    Some preliminary thoughts – the Great Lighthouse looks strong here, with an island to the east for extra trade routes. The island will pick up the fish, which is also one of my primary motivations for settling in place rather than moving onto the wine, which otherwise I would certainly do. We’ll see how that turns out.

    The oasis is generous for a Fin leader, and effectively gives me a 25% research boost in the early game. The rest of the terrain for SIP is very nice, too. A bit of fog-gazing tells us there’s a flood plain 2W, and the rest of the tiles are grasslands. This will be a very strong Bureau cap.

    Anything other than worker first would be really silly, and we have both techs we need for food, which leaves us free to start on Mining and Bronze Working, I think.
     
  18. Amao

    Amao King

    Joined:
    May 11, 2002
    Messages:
    735
    Location:
    Shanghai
    Monarch/Normal

    1000AD
    Spoiler :

    After getting construction, start the war preparation. Khan managed to build a few elephant right before I started invasion, so I waited a little longer to mix a few spearmen to counter. Got 3 cities first, before making a peace for 10 turns as I got machinery in the process of upgrading macemen, also took the HBR as compensation my falllen cats/axes.

    Met shaka as I got the optics, who already got 10 cities by then, on par with me. Mapping trading shows he already met Wong who already settle a city on his continent. Later, I also met the the greenish Monty, who only had 6 cites and close to my main continent. Sounds like an ideal target next. Sent scout to the west and eventually met Ragnar (6 cities), and then Kong (10 cities). Kong's already at war with Ragnar. This is event better, the not-good-at-war Kong with bigger empire against the Ragnar, it should be a stalemate. Just keep an eye on it. So one more AI to discover.

    Also researched to Education in the middle line before coming back to get Engineering for the next war. Built on cash for a few turns to upgrade a few caravels and macemen, then a few more turns for getting Astro dashing. With 2 extra GMs, I decided to burn one for GA, so I looked around and found that Calendar was not widely available, then I took a few more turns to build more cash while built the MoM in the capital. Right after I got MoM, I burnt one GM and started the GA and here I am at 1000AD, a few turns from Astro, and building up military, mainly trebs, once again for getting Monty under my control or simply annihilate the nut.

    Goals in the next round:
    1. war with Monty
    2. lib to steel
    3. maybe settle the islands to the west?
    4. more workers

    So, here is my question: after I get Optics and before I get Astro, can I send my GM to another continent which is not connected by trade route yet to get the cash?


     
  19. Amao

    Amao King

    Joined:
    May 11, 2002
    Messages:
    735
    Location:
    Shanghai
    I had the same reason for settling on site. :D
     
  20. v8_mark

    v8_mark Prince

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2007
    Messages:
    481
    Location:
    Oxford, UK
    2000BC - Immortal/Normal

    Spoiler :
    I have a sneaky feeling I can take advantage of a relatively anaemic Genghis Khan here. He still only has 2 cities – a low number on this difficulty level – and his Mfg and GNP are both below mine, so I’m going to settle right in his grille, near the ivory. See how he likes that...

    The second city I settled is a strong production site, which hopefully will build the Great Lighthouse, but it might not be in time. I might change my mind on that too, because it's sooo many hammers... I need to hot-foot to Monarchy sharpish, as well, because I don’t have any happiness at all.





    Bleh, can't figure out what I've done wrong with the screenshots, and I have to go, so they'll have to wait. I have two cities, one of which was in place, and one of which is 1N of the sheep - researching Writing (1T), about to head for Sailing, Masonry and Monarchy.
     

Share This Page