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NC LXVIII: Zara Yaqob of Ethiopia

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by dalamb, Feb 18, 2011.

  1. Nicol.Bolas

    Nicol.Bolas Prince

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2008
    Messages:
    575
    Location:
    Bohemia
    @Deonnim's
    I had a look at your save

    Spoiler :
    I had a look at your game.
    First, let me say I am sure we can win this, but it will be tight.
    Also let me say this: don´t consider noble too low. For noble you have to know and understand the game quite well.
    It will take some practice to get a 95% win rate.
    Also some people might have different opinions, but I would do this.
    I won´t be mentioning your earlier mistakes, that were already mentioned

    currently your game makes no sense: what you are doing is aimless, it´s a big mess of culture win - space race and war.
    what I like is your tech progress, city placement and military + science cities. production is ok but could be better

    victory condition
    Diplomatic win by vassal votes / military domination
    by far the easiest and fastest VC there is. And you really need to count each of those 280 turns we have left.
    why vassals? its faster then conquering them, if you don´t have enough tech, economic or tactic lead. their votes count 100% in UN, but 50% toward domination.
    you just don´t have time. compare my game: I already conquered my continent before you.
    arch enemies: France, Greece, Zulu
    vassals: , Japanese, Carthage, France, (Germany), (Greece). in that order
    at this point someone might suggest to continue your tech lead and go for space ship. but I dont think your abilities would pull that off. if someone thinks is more safer, post your guide, mine will concentrate on my VC
    if you conquer and rebuild fast, you might still be able to do spaceship, but greece and zulu make me worried, military juggernaut seems more reliable

    immediate goals - short term goals
    more specified below in MM changes
    japan and Carthage is vassaled

    interim goals
    France is vassaled
    established beachhead on other continent, - Germany vassaled,
    starting continent productive,
    war civics established,
    UN built

    long term goals
    Zulu and Greece under heavy pressure from military and espionage, until domination or vassalDIPLO is achieved

    immediate micromanagement changes before you even end turn
    in this order, its not random:
    trade screen
    trade all techs you can to other continent (preferably worst tech to weakest - but do what you must), get banking and nationalism
    ... keep trading after this.

    science screen
    slider up to 90% to get bio done over with.
    related: this will be a production revolution. your workers will quickly need to change many farms for workshops, with a state property in mind. if workers are slow, still do it, you don't need huge cities, you need production, so let them starve when you optimize improvements

    religion screen
    switch to judaism, spread it to all your cities

    civics screen
    those civics are absolutely horrible in your situation
    your target civics is:
    police state, nationhood, slavery, state property, theocrcy (with bio you will be whipping production a lot, do you know how whipping is done?)
    these civics enable military production juggernaut.
    now we don´t have these yet.
    so get state property asap. fascism not so much, capture pyramids instead. after you get SP, do the revolution at once.

    alternative could be to switch to hereditary rule, vassalage, slavery, merkantilism, theocracy immediately. use to merkantilism to MM more engineers and priests for production in cities. but we don't have time for more revolutions, so this would be final but these civics are just so dreadful. on the other hand, state property and police state really kick in in long term

    research screen
    beeline: communism, military science, rifling, industrialism for tanks, mass media for UN. maybe someone will build it for you though.... more military techs.

    city screen, military screen, combat
    biggest problem: small size.
    composition: ok. promotions are well done. but cannons will need city attack when you face equal units.
    general placement, west point, heroic epic: you seem to know what you are doing
    next general build academy in another general specialist production city. these cities will spit 3 units per 4 turns

    related: production.
    as workers change improvements after bio revolution, cities should only be building more military units, forges, factories, barracks. whip these in new cities, theaters. keep them at optimal size, let them starve or slave.
    only exception: finish that heroic epic and oxford. whip the oxford.
    GP: settle all. GA for GA, or settle in captured city.
    MILITARY UNITS RIGHT. NOW. EVERYWHERE. if specialist then engineers

    combat:
    japan and Carthage are backward. reinforce your MBG (main battle group) a little, then create more MBG to speed things up. vassalage japan ASAP. ask them every end of turn for capitulation after you capture another city. then do the same for Carthage, then France.
    when you get nationhood, defense is 1 unit per inside city, draft every turn
    for France, the stack will need to get bigger: 35% cannons, 30% grenadiers, 25% riflemen, 10% cavalry
    go for big cities first. keep asking them to capitulate
    with this or plain BUG mod (the one I used is enhanced for HOF and GOTM. - these mods only improve interface, not the game, you would be notified of this by message. consider for next game

    then you ammas 1st armada 8-10 fully loaded galleons + 4-5 frigates to bombard coastal cities and protect transports and go for germany.
    be prepred for zulus armada. 2 units per coastal ciuty (offensive squadrons nearby) + draft happy should be enough

    espionage
    big failure. set all points vs france. after you vassal japan and carthage, build spies to steal techs etc. build up intelligence etc. I wrote about this here:
    your horrible mistake was using great spy vs, japan. we have no way of using these points. no techs to steal and your military is years ahead....and no time to build spies...
    there are other guides for this of course

    the rest you can deduce.
    I believe you can win this noble game, but you will need many more to master noble, thats without doubt. your start up need work.
    if you download the mod suggest (doesn't change the actual game play) the new sevopedia has beginners guides right in game, so its perfect. read the prince one, it will help u on noble as well.)
    but beware this mod just spams you with information, it takes time to learn what helps your style and turn its notification on/off as you need.
    without the mod, you need more MM just like checking manually something every turn, and read external guides. I personally mastered noble on vanilla, so its possible.


    final word. it will improve your game if you can define your goals, maybe post them here! on noble, you need some thinking and plan to win. so definitely let me know how you doing on those goals, mine or other!
     
  2. huerfanista

    huerfanista Emperor

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2006
    Messages:
    1,276
    That's a pretty good trick, since I didn't post one! :lol: Perhaps you looked a Deonnim's save? :mischief:

    I am playing this one at emperor/epic. I'm up to 1800AD, and will post something later.
     
  3. Nicol.Bolas

    Nicol.Bolas Prince

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2008
    Messages:
    575
    Location:
    Bohemia
    Spoiler :
    jjust how effective is sabotaging resources? wont the opponent just rebuild the improvement, or trade for it? even if he rebuilds it for one turn, he starts producing units again, and they wont get deleted if he loses the resource?
     
  4. drlake

    drlake Emperor

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2007
    Messages:
    1,247
    Location:
    Plattsburgh, NY
    @Nicol.bolas
    Spoiler :

    In my experience, they don't rebuild the resources very quickly, and with proper prior planning you leave an extra spy or two on the tile for that event. It does seem to force them out of current production, which I'm pretty sure happens with players as well. It can make a difference when facing a tough opponent, and at fairly low cost.
     
  5. Nicol.Bolas

    Nicol.Bolas Prince

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2008
    Messages:
    575
    Location:
    Bohemia
    Spoiler :
    i will try that.
    in my current game (VC screen coming soon)
    I tried something similar. since I got so huge advantage, I also got a massive naval advantage. so I pillaged and blockaded virtually every city on other continent and destroyed ships as they left port (i managed to do this before they even got astro).

    I did this since I wanted conquest for a change, so this limited the rebuilding and re - expanding a lot.

    what happened? well not only it starves the cities, but since I saw their production, they started to produce caravels like mad. they could throw out 1 every 2 turns, so occasionally they would sink some frigates, but you get the idea.
    i will keep this in mind in my next games
     
  6. i_imperator

    i_imperator Imperator

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2009
    Messages:
    949
    Location:
    Ireland
    I give up- 1920. Emperor/Normal
    Spoiler :
    Im just really annoyed with this game now. I was going for space but Toku and DeGaul kept destroying my parts on the turn i finished them, whenever i completed SS thrusters, they were destroyed on the same turn.

    Toko dow,ed on me twice in this game and De gaul got 35%Land/pop and started collecting vassles. I rush bought security beuro's in all my cities but that did'nt do anything. I can win this but i really don't feel like it because of this spy crap. I bet they get discounts on destroying SS parts. Oh and i nuked Toko for Dowing on me, at least i accomplished something:D. I might try again next week.

    This game reminds me of NC Elizabeth 1, de gaul had a heck load of land in that too, and it was on a B&S Map.
     
  7. huerfanista

    huerfanista Emperor

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2006
    Messages:
    1,276
    1848AD domination, emperor/epic (part 1):

    Spoiler :

    SIP naturally, started a worker and went AG> BW> wheel> myst> poly> PH> pottery. Scout popped archery, some gold, 2 more scouts, and IW! When Hannibal showed up next door it was warrior> rax> *axes. He founded 3 cities by the time I DOWed, I razed 2 of them (they were poorly placed):


    After that I chopped out the Oracle and took MC. Oh, and I founded hinduism. :lol: This later spread to DeGaulle, which was great. Then I headed for recovery techs while expanding. I got CoL after writing and founded confucianism, which spread to Toku. :devil: I settled the jungle belt aggressively, as well as the western rice/dye/cow spot. This locked Toku out from any metals.

    I picked up HBR after currency, then headed for aesth> lit> music. Carthage built the Colossus +GLib and became my GP farm. I popped GProphet and built the hindu shrine for a nice boost. DeGaulle got to pleased quickly, and I was able to use the Sistine Chapel to expand my westrn borders up against his city there.

    Toku DoWed me around 700AD, but I was able to beat of his WE/HA/cat stack and took peace. Around this time DeGaulle went WHEOOHRN, had to be targeting Toku since he doesn't declare at pleased. I built up an army of maces/WEs/cats and joined in a couple of turns later. I managed to snipe all but one (crappy) Japanese cities, and DeGaule went to friendly. Kyoto had the Mids, GW, and HG, so I immediately switch from HR to Rep.

    I took MilTrad from lib, went GP> rifling techs and was ready to hit him in 1460AD. I ran 3 TMs with GMs which helped speed things up a lot. Only problem was that DeGaulle was only 6 turns from rifling when I declared with 3 stacks of cavalry:




    I took 3 cities on the first turn of the war and headed for Paris. By the time I capped him he still had 3 turns left on rifling. :lol: Toku capped on the same turn, in spite of not seeing any of his units (He and DeG shared some cities on the large island to the NE).


     
  8. huerfanista

    huerfanista Emperor

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2006
    Messages:
    1,276
    1848AD domination, emperor/epic (conclusion):

    Spoiler :
    Shaka was a runaway on the other continent, having vassaled Pericles and Fred by the time I met them, so I put all of my EPs on him. He was also teching very well, getting rifling not too long after I capped DeGaulle. Meanwhile, I had beelined communism (bulbing SM), then physics (free GS + another I popped bulbed Bio down to 1 turn). Around this time, Shaka DoWs me, landing abig stack of grens, knights, and a few rifles near my arctic marble/fur city in the south, and another small stack of 2 grens and a knight near my capital. These cities were very lightly defended - 1 spear in the arctic and 1 warrior in my capital - but I was able to rush a big stack of cavalry to my capital quickly. The arctic city was taken, but I had 8 blimps and 25 cavalry + some cannon waiting for Shaka when he advanced his stack towards my capital. I quickly wiped them out and re-took my city, then was able to get peace (he gave me around 200:gold: and a map).

    I quickly headed for combustion, since Shaka had a huge amount of naval units. Fortunately, I quickly gained visibility on his cities from focusing my EPs. I could see that he was heading for combustion as well, so I put a plan in place to deny him oil. He only had 2 sources of oil in his far north, one on each coast. I teched to AL while building destroyers and transports, and headed for flight. In the meantime, I sent a stack of destroyers along with some amphibious infantry to raze one of his 3 large naval cities:


    I razed the city and headed to another just like it and repeated the process. Once flight was in, I sent a carrier battle group to the western oil (he didn't have the other one hooked up yet) and was able to take out the fort with fighters on the turn that he got combustion. A small stack of infantry/MG landed and razed the road, then parked offshore waiting for workers to show up. Another landing party headed for the eastern oil and repeated the process there. Shaka was teching really fast, so I had to slow him down (I didn't have enough infantry for a full-scale invasion yet). I started a scorched-earth campaign with my fighters to pillage every single tile improvement. I sent more carrier groups over as they got built, and his research started to slow to a crawl. He a shot from after I started the final invasion to show the results of this:


    Shaka was sharing all of his techs with his vassals, so I started taking out the Greek islands to the southeast of my continent and the zulu islands to the northeast. After getting to industrialism I started building lots of marines (and later, tanks) for amphibious assaults. Finally, I invaded the NW of the zulu continent, landing a big stack of marine, tanks, and infantry. I quickly took city after city. Pericles was the first to break away, and capped immediately. A couple of turns later Shaka threw in the towel (he was down to 3 cities), and shortly after that Fred gave up:




    Very nice K/D ratio:



    Decent score:


    Cities:




     
  9. Capellan

    Capellan Is this thing on?

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2007
    Messages:
    316
    Need to fix your spoiler tags, huerfanista.

    21 hours!??
     
  10. huerfanista

    huerfanista Emperor

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2006
    Messages:
    1,276
    Fixed. I left in on overnight. :lol:
     
  11. Nicol.Bolas

    Nicol.Bolas Prince

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2008
    Messages:
    575
    Location:
    Bohemia
    Final spoiler 1878 AD, 190 turns left, noble standard

    Spoiler :
    After conquering and somewhat rebuilding my continent, I could have followed any VC.
    Since start this game was very easy. Thanks to chopping I had 5 cities when some civs were on 1-2. japan in particular building wonders for me.
    I seem o never build wonders... I seem to be in opposite of what is called newbies wonder disease.

    I self imposed rule on me to achieve pure conquest victory.
    I achieved this by extreme technological, naval and espionage superiority over the other continent, which was very backward in my game. Shaka was bullying his neighbors...

    SS the turn before zulu capitulated
    Spoiler :




    game log of my last sessions
    Spoiler :



    Logging by BUFFY 3.19.003 (BtS 3.19)
    ------------------------------------------------
    Turn 206/500 (1460 AD) [24-Feb-2011 15:53:18]
    Tech research finished: Education

    Turn 207/500 (1470 AD) [24-Feb-2011 15:53:50]
    Charles Darwin (Great Scientist) born in Carthage

    Turn 208/500 (1480 AD) [24-Feb-2011 15:59:09]
    Captured Avignon (De Gaulle)

    Turn 211/500 (1505 AD) [24-Feb-2011 16:26:55]
    Tech research finished: Liberalism

    Turn 212/500 (1510 AD) [24-Feb-2011 16:30:46]
    Tech acquired (trade, lightbulb, hut, espionage): Astronomy
    Research begun: Divine Right (5 Turns)
    Captured Paris (De Gaulle)

    Logging by BUFFY 3.19.003 (BtS 3.19)
    ------------------------------------------------
    Turn 216/500 (1530 AD) [24-Feb-2011 23:01:08]
    Tech research finished: Divine Right
    Atisha (Great Prophet) born in Carthage

    Turn 217/500 (1535 AD) [24-Feb-2011 23:01:13]
    Research begun: Gunpowder (3 Turns)

    Turn 218/500 (1540 AD) [24-Feb-2011 23:08:32]
    Captured Lyons (De Gaulle)

    Turn 219/500 (1545 AD) [24-Feb-2011 23:13:58]
    Tech research finished: Gunpowder

    Turn 220/500 (1550 AD) [24-Feb-2011 23:20:09]
    Research begun: Nationalism (4 Turns)
    Captured Grenoble (De Gaulle)
    Captured Tours (De Gaulle)
    Grenoble lost

    Turn 221/500 (1555 AD) [24-Feb-2011 23:29:10]
    Captured Dijon (De Gaulle)

    Turn 222/500 (1560 AD) [24-Feb-2011 23:34:39]
    Captured Amiens (De Gaulle)
    Razed Amiens
    Amiens lost

    Turn 223/500 (1565 AD) [24-Feb-2011 23:39:29]
    Tech research finished: Nationalism

    Turn 224/500 (1570 AD) [24-Feb-2011 23:41:57]
    Research begun: Printing Press (4 Turns)
    Research begun: Scientific Method (4 Turns)
    Research begun: Communism (4 Turns)
    Timur (Great General) born in Augustatrevorum
    Captured Grenoble (De Gaulle)
    French Empire has been eliminated
    Razed Grenoble
    Grenoble lost

    Turn 225/500 (1575 AD) [24-Feb-2011 23:55:33]
    Joseph Marie Jacquard (Great Engineer) born in Kyoto

    Turn 226/500 (1580 AD) [25-Feb-2011 00:00:30]
    Tech research finished: Printing Press

    Turn 229/500 (1595 AD) [25-Feb-2011 00:11:59]
    Michael Faraday (Great Scientist) born in Carthage

    Turn 230/500 (1600 AD) [25-Feb-2011 00:14:15]
    Tech research finished: Scientific Method

    Turn 234/500 (1620 AD) [25-Feb-2011 00:41:01]
    Nicol Zara NC68 (Ethiopia) declares war on Pericles (Greece)

    Turn 235/500 (1625 AD) [25-Feb-2011 00:46:02]
    Captured Athens (Pericles)
    Razed Athens
    Athens lost
    Tech research finished: Communism
    Eystein the Wise (Great Spy) born in Caprica

    Turn 236/500 (1630 AD) [25-Feb-2011 00:54:42]
    Research begun: Military Tradition (3 Turns)

    Turn 237/500 (1635 AD) [25-Feb-2011 01:00:48]
    Tech research finished: Military Tradition

    Turn 238/500 (1640 AD) [25-Feb-2011 01:05:01]
    Research begun: Physics (6 Turns)
    Research begun: Electricity (6 Turns)
    Research begun: Constitution (6 Turns)
    Research begun: Guilds (6 Turns)
    Research begun: Banking (6 Turns)
    Research begun: Economics (6 Turns)
    Research begun: Corporation (6 Turns)
    Research begun: Chemistry (6 Turns)
    Research begun: Replaceable Parts (6 Turns)
    Research begun: Steam Power (6 Turns)
    Research begun: Assembly Line (6 Turns)
    Research begun: Industrialism (6 Turns)
    Research begun: Guilds (2 Turns)
    Research begun: Banking (2 Turns)
    Research begun: Replaceable Parts (2 Turns)
    Research begun: Rifling (2 Turns)

    Turn 239/500 (1645 AD) [25-Feb-2011 01:10:16]
    Tech research finished: Guilds

    Turn 240/500 (1650 AD) [25-Feb-2011 01:12:58]
    Tech research finished: Banking

    Turn 242/500 (1660 AD) [25-Feb-2011 01:19:47]
    Tech research finished: Replaceable Parts

    Turn 245/500 (1675 AD) [25-Feb-2011 01:27:48]
    Tech research finished: Rifling

    Turn 246/500 (1680 AD) [25-Feb-2011 01:31:52]
    Research begun: Chemistry (2 Turns)
    Research begun: Steel (2 Turns)
    Captured Corinth (Pericles)
    Razed Corinth
    Corinth lost

    Turn 247/500 (1685 AD) [25-Feb-2011 01:39:00]
    Tech research finished: Chemistry

    Turn 251/500 (1705 AD) [25-Feb-2011 01:48:48]
    Tech research finished: Steel
    Shaka (Zululand) declares war on Pericles (Greece)
    Frederick (Germany) declares war on Pericles (Greece)

    Turn 252/500 (1710 AD) [25-Feb-2011 01:50:52]
    Research begun: Military Science (2 Turns)

    Turn 253/500 (1715 AD) [25-Feb-2011 01:55:23]
    Tech research finished: Military Science

    Turn 254/500 (1720 AD) [25-Feb-2011 01:57:13]
    Research begun: Biology (5 Turns)

    Turn 258/500 (1740 AD) [25-Feb-2011 02:07:38]
    Tech research finished: Biology
    Aristotle (Great Scientist) born in Carthage

    Turn 259/500 (1745 AD) [25-Feb-2011 02:10:23]
    Research begun: Physics (4 Turns)

    Turn 260/500 (1750 AD) [25-Feb-2011 02:16:49]
    Captured Sparta (Pericles)
    Greek Empire has been eliminated
    Razed Sparta
    Sparta lost

    Logging by BUFFY 3.19.003 (BtS 3.19)
    ------------------------------------------------
    Turn 289/500 (1838 AD) [25-Feb-2011 13:36:28]
    Captured Frankfurt (Shaka)
    Razed Frankfurt
    Frankfurt lost

    Turn 291/500 (1842 AD) [25-Feb-2011 13:43:32]
    Captured Babanango (Shaka)
    Razed Babanango
    Babanango lost

    Turn 292/500 (1844 AD) [25-Feb-2011 13:49:58]
    Captured Munich (Shaka)
    Razed Munich
    Munich lost

    Turn 293/500 (1846 AD) [25-Feb-2011 14:06:13]
    Captured Nodwengu (Shaka)
    Razed Nodwengu
    Nodwengu lost

    Turn 294/500 (1848 AD) [25-Feb-2011 14:14:30]
    Tech research finished: Railroad

    Turn 295/500 (1850 AD) [25-Feb-2011 14:18:54]
    Research begun: Combustion (3 Turns)

    Turn 296/500 (1852 AD) [25-Feb-2011 14:25:43]
    Captured Hamburg (Frederick)
    Razed Hamburg
    Hamburg lost

    Turn 297/500 (1854 AD) [25-Feb-2011 14:47:06]
    Captured Ndondakusuka (Shaka)
    Razed Ndondakusuka
    Ndondakusuka lost
    Tech research finished: Combustion

    Turn 298/500 (1856 AD) [25-Feb-2011 14:53:56]
    Research begun: Refrigeration (3 Turns)

    Logging by BUFFY 3.19.003 (BtS 3.19)
    ------------------------------------------------
    Turn 300/500 (1860 AD) [27-Feb-2011 00:54:54]
    Captured Nobamba (Shaka)
    Razed Nobamba
    Nobamba lost
    Tech research finished: Refrigeration
    George Patton (Great General) born in Lalibela

    Turn 301/500 (1862 AD) [27-Feb-2011 00:56:20]
    Research begun: Fascism (2 Turns)

    Turn 302/500 (1864 AD) [27-Feb-2011 01:05:32]
    Captured Hlobane (Shaka)
    Razed Hlobane
    Hlobane lost

    Turn 303/500 (1866 AD) [27-Feb-2011 01:12:35]
    Captured Dresden (Frederick)
    Razed Dresden
    Dresden lost
    Tech research finished: Fascism
    Gustavus II Adolphus (Great General) born in Caprica

    Turn 304/500 (1868 AD) [27-Feb-2011 01:19:49]
    Research begun: Flight (7 Turns)
    Captured Berlin (Frederick)
    Razed Berlin
    Berlin lost
    Captured eThekwini (Shaka)
    Razed eThekwini
    eThekwini lost
    Captured Leipzig (Frederick)
    Razed Leipzig
    Leipzig lost

    Turn 306/500 (1872 AD) [27-Feb-2011 01:28:20]
    Captured Ondini (Shaka)
    Razed Ondini
    Ondini lost
    Captured Ainu (Frederick)
    Razed Ainu
    Ainu lost

    Turn 307/500 (1874 AD) [27-Feb-2011 01:34:43]
    Captured Essen (Frederick)
    Razed Essen
    Essen lost

    Turn 308/500 (1876 AD) [27-Feb-2011 01:39:36]
    Captured Stuttgart (Frederick)
    Razed Stuttgart
    Stuttgart lost

    Turn 309/500 (1878 AD) [27-Feb-2011 01:52:56]
    Captured Dusseldorf (Frederick)
    Razed Dusseldorf
    Dusseldorf lost
    Captured Cologne (Frederick)
    Razed Cologne
    Cologne lost
    Nicol Zara NC68 (Ethiopia) and Frederick (Germany) have signed a peace treaty
    Frederick (Germany) declares war on Shaka (Zululand)
    Nicol Zara NC68 (Ethiopia) and Shaka (Zululand) have signed a peace treaty
    Frederick (Germany) and Shaka (Zululand) have signed a peace treaty



     
  12. Nicol.Bolas

    Nicol.Bolas Prince

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2008
    Messages:
    575
    Location:
    Bohemia
    Final spoiler 1878 AD, 190 turns left, noble standard

    Spoiler :
    After conquering and somewhat rebuilding my continent, I could have followed any VC.
    Since start this game was very easy. Thanks to chopping I had 5 cities when some civs were on 1-2. japan in particular building wonders for me.
    I seem o never build wonders... I seem to be in opposite of what is called newbies wonder disease.

    I self imposed rule on me to achieve pure conquest victory.
    I achieved this by extreme technological, naval and espionage superiority over the other continent, which was very backward in my game. Shaka was bullying his neighbors...

    also achievement unlocked:
    build 4 religion shrines and spread these religions to all 25 cities, then switch to theocracy.

    SS the turn before zulu capitulated


    game log of my last sessions
    Spoiler :



    Logging by BUFFY 3.19.003 (BtS 3.19)
    ------------------------------------------------
    Turn 206/500 (1460 AD) [24-Feb-2011 15:53:18]
    Tech research finished: Education

    Turn 207/500 (1470 AD) [24-Feb-2011 15:53:50]
    Charles Darwin (Great Scientist) born in Carthage

    Turn 208/500 (1480 AD) [24-Feb-2011 15:59:09]
    Captured Avignon (De Gaulle)

    Turn 211/500 (1505 AD) [24-Feb-2011 16:26:55]
    Tech research finished: Liberalism

    Turn 212/500 (1510 AD) [24-Feb-2011 16:30:46]
    Tech acquired (trade, lightbulb, hut, espionage): Astronomy
    Research begun: Divine Right (5 Turns)
    Captured Paris (De Gaulle)

    Logging by BUFFY 3.19.003 (BtS 3.19)
    ------------------------------------------------
    Turn 216/500 (1530 AD) [24-Feb-2011 23:01:08]
    Tech research finished: Divine Right
    Atisha (Great Prophet) born in Carthage

    Turn 217/500 (1535 AD) [24-Feb-2011 23:01:13]
    Research begun: Gunpowder (3 Turns)

    Turn 218/500 (1540 AD) [24-Feb-2011 23:08:32]
    Captured Lyons (De Gaulle)

    Turn 219/500 (1545 AD) [24-Feb-2011 23:13:58]
    Tech research finished: Gunpowder

    Turn 220/500 (1550 AD) [24-Feb-2011 23:20:09]
    Research begun: Nationalism (4 Turns)
    Captured Grenoble (De Gaulle)
    Captured Tours (De Gaulle)
    Grenoble lost

    Turn 221/500 (1555 AD) [24-Feb-2011 23:29:10]
    Captured Dijon (De Gaulle)

    Turn 222/500 (1560 AD) [24-Feb-2011 23:34:39]
    Captured Amiens (De Gaulle)
    Razed Amiens
    Amiens lost

    Turn 223/500 (1565 AD) [24-Feb-2011 23:39:29]
    Tech research finished: Nationalism

    Turn 224/500 (1570 AD) [24-Feb-2011 23:41:57]
    Research begun: Printing Press (4 Turns)
    Research begun: Scientific Method (4 Turns)
    Research begun: Communism (4 Turns)
    Timur (Great General) born in Augustatrevorum
    Captured Grenoble (De Gaulle)
    French Empire has been eliminated
    Razed Grenoble
    Grenoble lost

    Turn 225/500 (1575 AD) [24-Feb-2011 23:55:33]
    Joseph Marie Jacquard (Great Engineer) born in Kyoto

    Turn 226/500 (1580 AD) [25-Feb-2011 00:00:30]
    Tech research finished: Printing Press

    Turn 229/500 (1595 AD) [25-Feb-2011 00:11:59]
    Michael Faraday (Great Scientist) born in Carthage

    Turn 230/500 (1600 AD) [25-Feb-2011 00:14:15]
    Tech research finished: Scientific Method

    Turn 234/500 (1620 AD) [25-Feb-2011 00:41:01]
    Nicol Zara NC68 (Ethiopia) declares war on Pericles (Greece)

    Turn 235/500 (1625 AD) [25-Feb-2011 00:46:02]
    Captured Athens (Pericles)
    Razed Athens
    Athens lost
    Tech research finished: Communism
    Eystein the Wise (Great Spy) born in Caprica

    Turn 236/500 (1630 AD) [25-Feb-2011 00:54:42]
    Research begun: Military Tradition (3 Turns)

    Turn 237/500 (1635 AD) [25-Feb-2011 01:00:48]
    Tech research finished: Military Tradition

    Turn 238/500 (1640 AD) [25-Feb-2011 01:05:01]
    Research begun: Physics (6 Turns)
    Research begun: Electricity (6 Turns)
    Research begun: Constitution (6 Turns)
    Research begun: Guilds (6 Turns)
    Research begun: Banking (6 Turns)
    Research begun: Economics (6 Turns)
    Research begun: Corporation (6 Turns)
    Research begun: Chemistry (6 Turns)
    Research begun: Replaceable Parts (6 Turns)
    Research begun: Steam Power (6 Turns)
    Research begun: Assembly Line (6 Turns)
    Research begun: Industrialism (6 Turns)
    Research begun: Guilds (2 Turns)
    Research begun: Banking (2 Turns)
    Research begun: Replaceable Parts (2 Turns)
    Research begun: Rifling (2 Turns)

    Turn 239/500 (1645 AD) [25-Feb-2011 01:10:16]
    Tech research finished: Guilds

    Turn 240/500 (1650 AD) [25-Feb-2011 01:12:58]
    Tech research finished: Banking

    Turn 242/500 (1660 AD) [25-Feb-2011 01:19:47]
    Tech research finished: Replaceable Parts

    Turn 245/500 (1675 AD) [25-Feb-2011 01:27:48]
    Tech research finished: Rifling

    Turn 246/500 (1680 AD) [25-Feb-2011 01:31:52]
    Research begun: Chemistry (2 Turns)
    Research begun: Steel (2 Turns)
    Captured Corinth (Pericles)
    Razed Corinth
    Corinth lost

    Turn 247/500 (1685 AD) [25-Feb-2011 01:39:00]
    Tech research finished: Chemistry

    Turn 251/500 (1705 AD) [25-Feb-2011 01:48:48]
    Tech research finished: Steel
    Shaka (Zululand) declares war on Pericles (Greece)
    Frederick (Germany) declares war on Pericles (Greece)

    Turn 252/500 (1710 AD) [25-Feb-2011 01:50:52]
    Research begun: Military Science (2 Turns)

    Turn 253/500 (1715 AD) [25-Feb-2011 01:55:23]
    Tech research finished: Military Science

    Turn 254/500 (1720 AD) [25-Feb-2011 01:57:13]
    Research begun: Biology (5 Turns)

    Turn 258/500 (1740 AD) [25-Feb-2011 02:07:38]
    Tech research finished: Biology
    Aristotle (Great Scientist) born in Carthage

    Turn 259/500 (1745 AD) [25-Feb-2011 02:10:23]
    Research begun: Physics (4 Turns)

    Turn 260/500 (1750 AD) [25-Feb-2011 02:16:49]
    Captured Sparta (Pericles)
    Greek Empire has been eliminated
    Razed Sparta
    Sparta lost

    Logging by BUFFY 3.19.003 (BtS 3.19)
    ------------------------------------------------
    Turn 289/500 (1838 AD) [25-Feb-2011 13:36:28]
    Captured Frankfurt (Shaka)
    Razed Frankfurt
    Frankfurt lost

    Turn 291/500 (1842 AD) [25-Feb-2011 13:43:32]
    Captured Babanango (Shaka)
    Razed Babanango
    Babanango lost

    Turn 292/500 (1844 AD) [25-Feb-2011 13:49:58]
    Captured Munich (Shaka)
    Razed Munich
    Munich lost

    Turn 293/500 (1846 AD) [25-Feb-2011 14:06:13]
    Captured Nodwengu (Shaka)
    Razed Nodwengu
    Nodwengu lost

    Turn 294/500 (1848 AD) [25-Feb-2011 14:14:30]
    Tech research finished: Railroad

    Turn 295/500 (1850 AD) [25-Feb-2011 14:18:54]
    Research begun: Combustion (3 Turns)

    Turn 296/500 (1852 AD) [25-Feb-2011 14:25:43]
    Captured Hamburg (Frederick)
    Razed Hamburg
    Hamburg lost

    Turn 297/500 (1854 AD) [25-Feb-2011 14:47:06]
    Captured Ndondakusuka (Shaka)
    Razed Ndondakusuka
    Ndondakusuka lost
    Tech research finished: Combustion

    Turn 298/500 (1856 AD) [25-Feb-2011 14:53:56]
    Research begun: Refrigeration (3 Turns)

    Logging by BUFFY 3.19.003 (BtS 3.19)
    ------------------------------------------------
    Turn 300/500 (1860 AD) [27-Feb-2011 00:54:54]
    Captured Nobamba (Shaka)
    Razed Nobamba
    Nobamba lost
    Tech research finished: Refrigeration
    George Patton (Great General) born in Lalibela

    Turn 301/500 (1862 AD) [27-Feb-2011 00:56:20]
    Research begun: Fascism (2 Turns)

    Turn 302/500 (1864 AD) [27-Feb-2011 01:05:32]
    Captured Hlobane (Shaka)
    Razed Hlobane
    Hlobane lost

    Turn 303/500 (1866 AD) [27-Feb-2011 01:12:35]
    Captured Dresden (Frederick)
    Razed Dresden
    Dresden lost
    Tech research finished: Fascism
    Gustavus II Adolphus (Great General) born in Caprica

    Turn 304/500 (1868 AD) [27-Feb-2011 01:19:49]
    Research begun: Flight (7 Turns)
    Captured Berlin (Frederick)
    Razed Berlin
    Berlin lost
    Captured eThekwini (Shaka)
    Razed eThekwini
    eThekwini lost
    Captured Leipzig (Frederick)
    Razed Leipzig
    Leipzig lost

    Turn 306/500 (1872 AD) [27-Feb-2011 01:28:20]
    Captured Ondini (Shaka)
    Razed Ondini
    Ondini lost
    Captured Ainu (Frederick)
    Razed Ainu
    Ainu lost

    Turn 307/500 (1874 AD) [27-Feb-2011 01:34:43]
    Captured Essen (Frederick)
    Razed Essen
    Essen lost

    Turn 308/500 (1876 AD) [27-Feb-2011 01:39:36]
    Captured Stuttgart (Frederick)
    Razed Stuttgart
    Stuttgart lost

    Turn 309/500 (1878 AD) [27-Feb-2011 01:52:56]
    Captured Dusseldorf (Frederick)
    Razed Dusseldorf
    Dusseldorf lost
    Captured Cologne (Frederick)
    Razed Cologne
    Cologne lost
    Nicol Zara NC68 (Ethiopia) and Frederick (Germany) have signed a peace treaty
    Frederick (Germany) declares war on Shaka (Zululand)
    Nicol Zara NC68 (Ethiopia) and Shaka (Zululand) have signed a peace treaty
    Frederick (Germany) and Shaka (Zululand) have signed a peace treaty



     
  13. Danelius90

    Danelius90 Hunter (of vegetables)

    Joined:
    May 20, 2010
    Messages:
    386
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    UK
    Monarch/Epic - No huts or events.
    1000BC ish ~ 700AD ish
    Spoiler :

    So, continuing from last time - got alpha in 1k BC, nothing really worth trading though. Myst, archery and fishing. Can get any 2 for writing. Toku is being a goon as usual.
    Although saying that, I could trade myst and archery, (fishing takes 3 turns) and get HBR and horse archer rush Toku maybe... and I have the option to build my UB

    Spoiler :


    sprawled out some more, economy a bit slow, need to get to currency and try and get calendar for the luxuries nearby (or maybe monarchy for HR)
    got currency, and a nice boost. Going to head for monarchy now for happiness (although, I don't have enough money in the short term to spam units for happiness, but I can get wine up and adopt HR for some happiness. Other option was calendar, but with only 2 different resources I thought monarchy was the way to go)
    fail... all this time I'd forgotten to get a route to the fur so stunted happiness ...

    traded with de gaulle for calendar in the end :)

    getting slightly annoyed ... I keep sending spies into toku's borders to see what he's got, and within 3 turns the spy is discovered doing bugger all.

    Declared on Toku with a stack of horse archers. Could have done with a few more, a little sparse now but still pumping more on the way.
    Spoiler :


    685AD there is no more toku.

    played on some more, save attached.


    sorry about the vague dates, I finished these notes off without having the game on :p
    need to remember to adjust the resolution on my screenshots, put them in spoilers for the time being
     

    Attached Files:

  14. vhhawk

    vhhawk Warlord

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2008
    Messages:
    195
    Location:
    Oklahoma City
    After being salad for two Caesars in the last one, I'm ready for something completely different. Subscribed.
     
  15. Deonnim

    Deonnim Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2010
    Messages:
    74
    I'm writing this from work and don't happen to have any SS of my win, but I figured I would check in.

    I believe the date was 1921 UN victory. I probably could have had a conquest victory quicker, but I wanted to see if I could win the UN. Considering where I was, I'm happy with the time span of the victory. Unfortunately this game took me almost 20 hrs to play, I need to improve the speed of my gameplay first and foremost. Once I can play a quick game, I can get more practice in to improve my game play.

    Spoiler :

    I finished up the war with Japan and France. I should have had a bigger army when I went after France, but Japan took too long to break free and then capitulate to me. France rolled over rather quickly, but I had my eyes set on the Pyramids and didn't let them cap until I had taken Paris.

    Once that war was finished, I consolidated my army into a two prong force and set my eyes on Hannibal. I had originally only planned to take over 3 of his cities, but he was easy enough to conquer and I pushed him off the continent. At this point, I owned the majority of my continent and proceeded to tech forward and start producing a landing party.

    I don't remember when the war started, but I decided to go after Greece first since he was being rofl-stomped by Shaka. I took over Athens first to grab the wonders, captured a few more cities and then let him capitulate. After a few more turns of gathering my forces, I declared war on Germany and Shaka. Germany rolled over easily enough once I stole half their remaining cities.

    Shaka actually posed a little bit of a challenge. I let him tech too far ahead, so he was able to send gun powder units at me. But superior numbers and production beat out his SoD, and after capturing a bunch of cities in 2 different places, I almost forced him into capitulation. I remembered our goal was to win a UN victory, so instead I waited the couple of turns for the UN vote to come up. Obviously, I won. My score was about 33000, not sure how good that is.

    I was happy how this game turned out once I gave myself a goal to focus on. It let me actually pick techs that were useful, showed me that I can amass an army when I super focus myself, and rofl stomp the competition. I just need to learn a bit more about the AI leaders, which techs to take and when (which depends on many factors), and improve my early game play. Had I expanded more in the beginning, this game probably would have ended much easier and more quickly. But this was my first official game on Noble, so I'm learning, and that's the point.

    Again, thank you for all the help on turning this game around. I learned a bunch of things this time, instead of at lower difficulties. Here's to hoping I can win another NC and more Noble games in the future.
     
  16. A_Hamster

    A_Hamster Small Furry Animal

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2007
    Messages:
    627
    Missed the 500 AD check-in.
    Spoiler :

    The World as Ethopia knows it: AD 580.
    Spoiler :

    Still trying to recover from the war with Carthage. Chopped/whipped Libraries everywhere. Researched Alphabet instead of Fishing. Traded Monarchy to De Gaulle for Fishing and Masonry. Founded two cities, Addis Abba to the NW near France to claim Jumbos, and Yeha the north of Gondar to claim cows/horse/spice. Am considering a third city where X marks the spot. The sign "No Jungle" is a reminder that early in the game, that spot was free of jungle, so I wonder if there is a late game resource there. I'll try to claim that area. There's an island to the east of Carthage with iron I would like to claim eventually, but it can wait. Chinook, on the SE peninsula below Carthage seems like a good spot for the Moai Statues. A small stack of swordsmen are headed that way.

    Have sent out pairs of chariots and work boats to explore northwards into France while I have open borders. Sent a spy to scout Japan.

    No long-term plans. Still need to get build the economy, and so I am researching Currency. Carthage is building research, as will other cities since I'm so far behind techwise, I have no other city infrastructure to build. Calendar will be next, since I have lots of calender resources. It seems like peaceful development is in order here, but I wonder if I should just try to get to gunpowder ASAP, and do further research "pointy-stick" style. Trouble is, I could not afford the city upkeep right now, and I don't have cats or trebs.

    Edit: Have added a save from turn 149. I played another ten turns, but will stop for now. A number of cities now have Stele. This was because I had nothing better to build and figured that maybe cultural pressure might help down the line.
    Current Cities
    Spoiler :

    Current Civics
    Spoiler :

    Economy
    Spoiler :


     

    Attached Files:

  17. Capellan

    Capellan Is this thing on?

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2007
    Messages:
    316
    @A_Hamster
    Can you post a save? I'll take a look tonight (in about 10-11 hours probably) and post some thoughts. Clearly something's going wrong, but I can't tell from the screenies what it is.
     
  18. A_Hamster

    A_Hamster Small Furry Animal

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2007
    Messages:
    627
    As usual, I forgot to do so, but yes, I can. And, thanks, suggestions are needed.
     
  19. Danelius90

    Danelius90 Hunter (of vegetables)

    Joined:
    May 20, 2010
    Messages:
    386
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    UK
    @A_Hamster
    Spoiler :

    had a look at your save, as I was loading, the hint came up
    "a civ without currency cannot have a specialized economy nor support a growing empire"
    Funny, because I thought its likely something like that (and you are researching currency at the time of the save ;))

    First thing I saw was the capital. I would (and did in my save) stick some cottages around there. And looking around, you have only 2 cottages in your entire empire and have gone a farm overload. This is where the main problem lies. As you know, cottages grow in 10 turns then 20 etc giving you extra commerce each time. This is the best way to get research/gold.
    I attached your save just adjusting some tiles, really nothing at all - just changed some farms to work coast tiles. Because you're at 100% gold, all of this is converted to gold, and the :science: slider is now up to 20% to currency quicker. (This is useful to remember whenever your economy gets a little stuck.)

    I don't know, were you trying to run a specialist economy? Until you can start running merchants you need to gold somehow, and cottages provide the way to do this. Or limit expansion. The close neighbour pretty much forced your hand to kill him, thats ok, you just need to keep your gold up ;) In any case you'd need more than 4 scientists for a respectable tech rate :p

    I notice too, you have mysticism, poly and priesthood. Were you going for religion or oracle? At the moment you have not used any buildings/benefits from these technologies (and no religion at all in any city - not necessarily your fault, but no need to have the tech for temples if you can't build them and the economy is flopping)

    On a slight note of management, Aksum has a worker lined up after the walls - does Aksum really need walls that bad? Its not in the firing range of an enemy so the worker would probably have been better to build first (and if you have nothing to build, build research)

    by the way what does your "no jungle" tag mean?

    On the one hand, you have a good number of workers (capture some did you :mischief:). Take a look at Aksum though, you have tiles that cannot be worked due to the happy cap. So you have perhaps been spending time improving one city that cannot use those tiles, while others have been a little neglected? Of course you may not, I don't know when they were put there but something to keep in mind.

    It appears Yeha is the most recently founded city? That grass cow is a good food source! how come you didn't get it earlier? Lalibela was really early it seems? What was your reasoning there?
    I'm not an expert on city placement, but your cities are quite a way apart - look between aksum, gondar and yeha. There's a lot of tiles that cannot ever be used. For the most part, these cities won't even be able to use all the tiles in their BFC (happy cap limits, food limits etc). The increased maintenance might be a bit of a pain too, you see. Have a think about what a city will have in its BFC - Yeah has 3 grass hills and a plains hill. Have a look around and see if there's any other way of getting a similar yield? I use this to try and place cities better, and preferable closer to the capital if I can help it!
    Take a look at my save if you like, to show what I mean (model example :smug: just kidding, it may not be perfect but its what I'm trying to say)

    You also have lots of units, and these require maintenance. Its difficult to know what to do with them, you don't want to delete them, but they need to be used. Toku might be a target cos he's a pain.

    Anyway hope there's something useful there and you can pull yourself through!
     

    Attached Files:

  20. A_Hamster

    A_Hamster Small Furry Animal

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2007
    Messages:
    627
    @Danelius90
    Spoiler :

    Re: No Jungle. In the mists of time, when the world was yet young, and Ethopia still had a Scout, this Scout came across a clearing in what was otherwise trackless jungle. Seeing nothing of apparent value, he was suspicious, and left blazes to mark the place for those who would follow that this place would be remembered in later ages when knowledge would be greater and perhaps wise sages would understand what had left the land barren. (Based on finding an empty patch of land in the middle of jungle, I think there may be a late game resource there.)

    1. Yes, my original intent was to do an SE, but since I had to research military techs, that means I'm behind getting to CoL. So anyway, I got hung up on the farms and so have neglected Cottages.

    2. Re: Religious techs. I don't remember my reasoning ... Perhaps I was thinking of doing a Priest economy, but that is really for a Spiritual leader and works great with Ramesses and Obelisks. Zara and Stele ... not so good. But you are right, it makes no sense to waste beakers on religious techs without religion or without founding a religion. However, I no longer know what I was thinking, unless I wanted Stonehenge.

    3. Workers. Until the war was over, I was short on workers and so all the cities are (were?) underdeveloped. Your point about the Happy cap is a good one, and not one I had considered before. Thank you.

    4. City placement. Lalibela was built to get Iron. Yeha is a replacement for a Carthagian city that I razed, and that Lymond pointed out that I should not have razed it. City placement is a problem for me, since I try to claim resources early, and that often means a third city a good 15+ tiles away from the capital. What I think you are saying is that I should pack cities in more to use the land better and reduce maintenance. I'll try to do so in the future. (Maybe another city near the capital?)

    5. Aksum and Walls. That is me being illogical. Logically, the capital is pretty safe. However, it feels isolated and exposed so I build walls. It's good to have a different perspective to show me I'm making decisions on emotions not reason. I'll change it to Research since that is what I really need.

    6. Units. Perhaps go for Construction and HBR so I can use Elepults? I'm hesitant to attack Toku since in an offline game I had to rush him, and it was a messy experience. Here, I don't know how close he is to Longbows. Still, I would like to get rid of one of the two AI civs, or at least take their good cities and leave them the dregs.

    I got a load error on when trying to load the save. The message was "Cannot load version 302. Expected 301." Is there a BtS patch I missed?

     

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