Need Advice about deity land grab

[NotaParadox]

Hey, I am more or less a new poster here trying to reach deity right now and getting very frustrated. I have played immortal a few times after coming back to cIV this month and it has been fairly easy but whenever I try and make the jump to deity I find I can never get down more than 3-4 cities whereas I have no problem getting 6+ on immortal. It is to the point I have gone through over 20 reloads now, and I don't mean I am getting 3-4 decnt cities with a few other filler ones sharing food I mean I literally grab 3-4 cities tops before there is no more space left around me at all. Even the cities I am getting are only working their inner tiles because the ai's culture is so close.

I might include screen shots if you think they may help but really I am looking for any advice about securing land on deity. (note: settings are Pangaea standard/normal everything with no huts or events)

 

[Manco Capac]

Play another mapscript. Pangaea is known to squeeze the player really hard.

 

[vanillasine]

a few deity players post their games online, on this site and on youtube -- search this site a bit more, it has tons of advice

 

[NotaParadox]

Thanks for the quick answers. Any idea when I should be looking to have aesthetics assuming an average start? (assuming not going for any weird oracle tech path, just getting neccessary techs for land/barb defense then going for aesth for trade bait)

 

[Strickl3r]

Try creative civ on pangea with horses nearby, get early libary, run 2 scientist -> bulb math, meanwhile tech horsebackriding.
no need to worry about stupid ais grabbing your land.
Also very good examples on youtube.

Or try Huayana Capac

If you play pangea there is (i would guess) more than 50% chance, it won't be a teching game with 6 + cities, you have to attack early.

a few deity players post their games online, on this site and on youtube -- search this site a bit more, it has tons of advice

Are there Let's players on youtube who play deity with commentary other than AZ on the same(or almost the same) level?

 

[GKey]

I think TMIT had couple deity games. Other then that only AZ is brave enough for deity on youtube.

 

[Manco Capac]

I did one deity game on vids, but it is just too consuming on time and BANDWIDTH.

 

[GKey]

Oh sorry, Tachy! I saw it, how could I forget , that was HRE, right?

 

[Seraiel]

4 cities on Deity is decent already, if not even good. I cannot think of any real "tricks" that would garantuee more to you, except that you work on your basics as hard as you can, the always was as still most important thing is, to chop for your life, and, what you must not forget: You can go to war very very early and expand your land via that. In some games I limited myself to only 2 cities, and didn't invest any further resources in Settlers, as only IMP-Settlers are "cost-effective" (and one can argue even about those) , troops are cheaper and better, let AI do your work.

Just remembered one trick btw. how one can get more land "quite easily" , that one would be to "choke" your neighbour with 1-2 Warriors. When AI's in warmode, they tend to build almost only Archers and forget about land-grab. Grab what was ment for them and finish them once you got stronger units, or make peace and watch the other AIs fall over that single AI because it'll be on the last place after your early harrassing, join in wars with them.

Sera

 

[TiglathPileser]

Becoming boxed in can be inevitable on certain deity maps, but there are a few things you can do to help get enough cities for liberalism in time. Starting your first settler build unusually early, at size 3, is often better on deity - getting the settler a few turns earlier makes all the difference in securing the best second site. You can REX faster if you maximise your food->hammer conversion by 3 pop whipping your settlers and 2 pop whipping your workers, as often as you can, with maximum overflow into your other infrastructure/fogbusters while growing back. Early bronzeworking/granaries obviously help here. Placement of cities to share important tiles is an art at this level, always work as many of your best tiles as you can with your overlapping cities - food specials and capital BFC cottages.

With a REX this fast on Deity research will nosedive much earlier than many players are used to, so I always try to do three things. Choose a techpath with absolutely nothing extraneous before pottery/writing and something (usually aesthetics) to trade for alpha. Skip things like Mysticism, Animal Husbandry and Fishing/Sailing if you can get away working good tiles without needing to improve a tech dependent resource. Secondly, basic trade route maximisation. Always make sure your second city is connected to your trade network on settling for +2 commerce, and road into neighbouring AI's for the foreign routes ASAP. Finally, use binary research for two advantages - avoid the -1 commerce from rounding at intermediate slider levels before libraries, and save as much gold as you can to spend once your capital has it's library multiplier.

If you can't avoid getting boxed in an early breakout war may be necessary, and these can be successful on deity if you commit early enough by chopping and whipping everything you've got as much as you can, into multiple unhappiness. Horse Archer or Elepult wars are the method of choice but simple catapult breakouts are often more viable than you may think, if you pick your target wisely.

Practice makes perfect. Deity like no other level tests your ability to pursue the correct strategy for the map, and experience is everything as far as this goes.

 

[Strickl3r]

I did one deity game on vids, but it is just too consuming on time and BANDWIDTH.

What does BANDWIDTH mean ?

Deity fun charlemagne has no commentary To bad i can even understand a little french. 'Merde j'ai oblié de trebuchets'

 

[NotaParadox]

Thanks for the advice all, especially Seraiel, I had not considered, or really thought that choking a deity ai would be viable, will try it out on more cramped maps

 

[Manco Capac]

Thanks for the advice all, especially Seraiel, I had not considered, or really thought that choking a deity ai would be viable, will try it out on more cramped maps

WHAT!!!!
That's utter hysteria. Never, but never choke a deity AI if you don't know what you are doing! NEVAAAA! I'm one of best AI chokers over here and my conclusion was, if you don't what you are doing, that will return against quite fast. On deity, the best way to choke is with higher units like chariots or axemen. But bet how many games the human beat the AI in terms how fast they get those units. Rare. rare.

 

[Zx Zero Zx]

You either aren't placing your cities very well so you can squeeze more in, or are being to slow at settling. I can almost always hit 5 on deity standard Pangaea before having no more room. But as Tachy said don't even try to choke on deity, the only unit I have ever had success choking with is the chariot. The axeman can work, but it's just to slow usually. You need the sped of 2 movement points, and the cheaper unit.

 

[ben-jammin]

There is zero point choking an AI on a deity pangea map unless he's on a peninsula that you can block off completely. Otherwise all you're doing is making another AI (or two, or three) a bit stronger.

 

[cseanny]

LoL. With some fun I say

Blah! Choke on Deity all day long baby. Skirmisher ftw! And I'd much rather some random AI or two have an additional 2-4 cities if I'm able to expand to 7-8. My 8 will crush their 15! After all, our 4-5 crush their 10+ right lol?

 

[Seraiel]

What you forgot Tachywaxon, is, that one can play with random-events (just for the fun of it of course) , and that the chances of "the great mediator event" aren't really low, you know what I mean? And often, one has 1 or 2 pleased AIs that one can drag into this war, the 1st AI which one choked or stole Workers from, is quite willing to make peace then. And at a latest of Alphabet or Currency, one can pursuade AI to make peace quite easily, just give them some cheap techs or a small amount of gold, and AI will be happy.

But I guess all of this morely refers to "choke if you know what you're doing" .

 

[Manco Capac]

Sadly, few plays with random events here and competition games usually disable them. So no avenue from those events. And normal speed doesn't offer many events througout a game. Marathon, because event occurence wasn't scaled, sees thrice the time of events happening, meaning in the stretch of a period where few where accomplished by the AI, chances are great to see mediator event.

In fact, from originally DanF and my latter number code divings (yep, I have changed since we met last time), AggAI is the way 100% to get easy ceasefire without depending on RNG.

On deity, if got not special units, you need to know deeply the mechanics of ceasefires because the period where it's available can be so thin (if it ever happens).

By the time you got Alpha, you don't steal workers on deity. On an average start with some rivers, it takes up to 1800 BC or even later to get to Alpha. Deity can do a lot before that.

 

[Seraiel]

I didn't say "steal the workers when you got Alpha" , I said "Alpha can get you out of a war easily" Tachy It can take AI quite some time, even if its a Deity AI, from the moment where the workers are stolen, through the period where you choke and play with it, until their 5-6 units SoD reaches the borders of your cities and demands immediate actions.

And not to come of cocky, but I have never deeply understood the ceasefire mechanics, but I had games where I stole up to 10 Workers from an AI and got away with it, and yes, Deity

P.S.: Nice to meet you again, congratulations on your Civ-habilitation ;D