gcm4738
Senator from Abyssinia
Hi All,
I've been trying to get from Prince to Monarch and the gap seems really big to me. I'm at a point where I can keep up with the AI's for the most part, but don't seem to be able to get to that point where my civ has "expanding options" for victory. By "expanding options" I mean that as time goes on, my tech, production, money, etc. starts to go up an increasingly steeper curve. Rather, my victory conditions slowly get taken off the table until I'm forced to either build only army for domination or go for space - whichever seems more likely. (And actually - by the time I get to 1600 - 1700, both are usually starting to look increasingly unlikely). And by then, what am I supposed to do? Beeline Mass Media and build the UN when all the AI's hate me? What am I doing wrong?
This is a hard topic to ask about for of a lot of reasons - each game is totally different in terms of situation, opponents, etc. Also, when we post games here in the forum with saves or pictures, you can often see things like - you know - why is a player building the national epic in that city when he's already got the Parthenon in another, or why do you have 18 tiles developed in that city when you've only got 2 developed in this other city, and so on. But rarely is it possible to see or comment on - why did you decide to gift archery to that civ to sweeten him up when you did? Why did you open borders to Cyrus, but not to Victoria? How did you decide the benifits of going Hindu outweighed the costs?
I have picked up a lot of good tips here lately - getting from Noble to Monarch-competitive in a few months, but I seem to be stuck. The "Lessons Learned Beating Emperor" thread is a good one, and I think I'm ok on most of the topics in that thread. I know I need to improve my knowledge of late game civics and concepts, but I'm finding that my options for victory are already limited by then.
I believe my main problem at this point is diplo with the AI's. I have some understanding of the *tactics* of relations -- what makes them happy or grumpy -- I just have no concept of how to use this as part of an overall strategy in a game.
Ok - so problem number 1 - I don't have any diplomatic strategy at all, let alone tailor it to the particular game situation. I never really had to have one before. I just did what I wanted - sod the AI. This is really causing problems now - at least I think it is. So a basic question would be to you guys - How much a part of your game does diplomacy play on Monarch and above and how do you use it to your advantage strategically? How much do you change what you do from game to game?
Maybe another way to clarify this question is to say that, on Monarch I'm finding that espionage cannot be ignored. Now I may choose to use it offensively or I may just choose to have a certain level of "defensive espionage" in place (spies in each of my cities, run "counterespionage" missions periodically, make sure EP's are going towards the right AI's, etc.) On Prince, who cares? On Monarch - for me anyway - I've got to do this or the AI rips off my techs and poisons my water, damages buildings, etc. (Well it did on Prince too - but so what? Now it hurts too much)
Here's a typical game for me... I've got two or three close neighbours. I will open borders to them unless they're real warmongers. I'll pick the most likely one to attack (they are a warmonger, they have the best land closest to me, they are financial, they have a wonder/shrine I want.) I never found a religion. I never adopt a religion unless it looks like a love fest around me, then I figure it's safe and I want the temples for
and the monastaries for 
.
I attack them, or someone attacks me. I expand through war as far as I can, razing their junk cities, keeping their good ones. They're either dead or I get techs, etc. off them for peace. They'll never vote for me now, sometimes others on my continent won't vote for me now (if shared religion or they're friends, etc.) I've got a decent empire now, but no one around me likes me. I never gift techs or resources, I wil trade though, but only to my advantage. I *rarely* give in to demands. Then I meet the other continent or group of AI's. They already seem predisposed not to like me. I'm not their religion, I've attacked or traded with their enemies or whatever. So I sort of follow the same "strategy" as above - without the attack. I almost never invade overseas if there's someone closer to home with decent land. If I don't do this I seem to end up boxed in - not enough land/missing key resources. I can only get enough land to win by warring at some point in most games. If I adopt a religion, I'm screwed abroad if not at home. If I gift techs or trade them below value, I'm giving away an advantage I worked hard to build, but for what? So an AI will be "pleased" for a while instead of "cautious" before he eventually flips back anyway?
I can't see a different way - what am I supposed to do - run mercantilism just to please one AI when that screws my economy and just pisses off some other AI? I find the whole thing rather frustrating. Any help would be appreciated!
I've been trying to get from Prince to Monarch and the gap seems really big to me. I'm at a point where I can keep up with the AI's for the most part, but don't seem to be able to get to that point where my civ has "expanding options" for victory. By "expanding options" I mean that as time goes on, my tech, production, money, etc. starts to go up an increasingly steeper curve. Rather, my victory conditions slowly get taken off the table until I'm forced to either build only army for domination or go for space - whichever seems more likely. (And actually - by the time I get to 1600 - 1700, both are usually starting to look increasingly unlikely). And by then, what am I supposed to do? Beeline Mass Media and build the UN when all the AI's hate me? What am I doing wrong?
This is a hard topic to ask about for of a lot of reasons - each game is totally different in terms of situation, opponents, etc. Also, when we post games here in the forum with saves or pictures, you can often see things like - you know - why is a player building the national epic in that city when he's already got the Parthenon in another, or why do you have 18 tiles developed in that city when you've only got 2 developed in this other city, and so on. But rarely is it possible to see or comment on - why did you decide to gift archery to that civ to sweeten him up when you did? Why did you open borders to Cyrus, but not to Victoria? How did you decide the benifits of going Hindu outweighed the costs?
I have picked up a lot of good tips here lately - getting from Noble to Monarch-competitive in a few months, but I seem to be stuck. The "Lessons Learned Beating Emperor" thread is a good one, and I think I'm ok on most of the topics in that thread. I know I need to improve my knowledge of late game civics and concepts, but I'm finding that my options for victory are already limited by then.
I believe my main problem at this point is diplo with the AI's. I have some understanding of the *tactics* of relations -- what makes them happy or grumpy -- I just have no concept of how to use this as part of an overall strategy in a game.
Ok - so problem number 1 - I don't have any diplomatic strategy at all, let alone tailor it to the particular game situation. I never really had to have one before. I just did what I wanted - sod the AI. This is really causing problems now - at least I think it is. So a basic question would be to you guys - How much a part of your game does diplomacy play on Monarch and above and how do you use it to your advantage strategically? How much do you change what you do from game to game?
Maybe another way to clarify this question is to say that, on Monarch I'm finding that espionage cannot be ignored. Now I may choose to use it offensively or I may just choose to have a certain level of "defensive espionage" in place (spies in each of my cities, run "counterespionage" missions periodically, make sure EP's are going towards the right AI's, etc.) On Prince, who cares? On Monarch - for me anyway - I've got to do this or the AI rips off my techs and poisons my water, damages buildings, etc. (Well it did on Prince too - but so what? Now it hurts too much)
Here's a typical game for me... I've got two or three close neighbours. I will open borders to them unless they're real warmongers. I'll pick the most likely one to attack (they are a warmonger, they have the best land closest to me, they are financial, they have a wonder/shrine I want.) I never found a religion. I never adopt a religion unless it looks like a love fest around me, then I figure it's safe and I want the temples for
and the monastaries for .I attack them, or someone attacks me. I expand through war as far as I can, razing their junk cities, keeping their good ones. They're either dead or I get techs, etc. off them for peace. They'll never vote for me now, sometimes others on my continent won't vote for me now (if shared religion or they're friends, etc.) I've got a decent empire now, but no one around me likes me. I never gift techs or resources, I wil trade though, but only to my advantage. I *rarely* give in to demands. Then I meet the other continent or group of AI's. They already seem predisposed not to like me. I'm not their religion, I've attacked or traded with their enemies or whatever. So I sort of follow the same "strategy" as above - without the attack. I almost never invade overseas if there's someone closer to home with decent land. If I don't do this I seem to end up boxed in - not enough land/missing key resources. I can only get enough land to win by warring at some point in most games. If I adopt a religion, I'm screwed abroad if not at home. If I gift techs or trade them below value, I'm giving away an advantage I worked hard to build, but for what? So an AI will be "pleased" for a while instead of "cautious" before he eventually flips back anyway?
I can't see a different way - what am I supposed to do - run mercantilism just to please one AI when that screws my economy and just pisses off some other AI? I find the whole thing rather frustrating. Any help would be appreciated!
