Need Help Learning How to be Aggressive Early

[atz9999]

I've been lurking on the Civ 5 sections of this site since a little after Gods and Kings came out but I've never actually posted so if this is the wrong place for this I'm really sorry.

All the way up to my current difficulty of emperor I've been mostly doing starts and strategies that focused on science early (even if that wasn't what my goals were) and I've struggled with civs that were more culturally focused (because I often end up to far behind on science to fight prolonged wars).

As I've been slowly working my way through playing as each Civ I realized I should put France at the top of the list since it's my understanding they will be getting changes in Brave New World. While theorizing about optimal strategies for France I've come to the conclusion that early aggression to puppet a few cities for Ancien Régime then going for a cultural victory would be a solid fun learning experience for me. Unfortunately, I've lost 3 games pretty badly trying to do this because it is so opposite of my usual I assume. I figure if I can manage to learn how to do this some of the things I learn here I can then use to help me play civs like Mongolia and The Huns that I've previously had lots of difficulty playing as.

TL; DR: I suck at early game aggression that does not put me way behind on science/culture. If anyone has any tips (especially playing as an early aggressive France) I would greatly appreciate it.

Note: I did read threads for the two GOTM for France but both are VERY old (vanilla) and I'm not convinced I learned anything worth knowing from them unfortunately.

If it matters or anyone cares about what my normal strategies are I can give insight into that.

 

[OwlRaider]

France is a powerful civilization indeed, but Ancien Regime is a very misleading UA. Yes, it gives you a lot of early culture, but in the long run(as in for a cultural victory) it is somewhat meaningless if you're going wider than usual just to benefit from it, since the added policy cost of those additional cities will far outweigh the early culture gain from Ancien Regime from those extra cities. With that said, Ancien Regime is a great UA to get early culture policies when you don't plan to go for a culture victory, in which case the added cost of those later policies would be negligent. For example, going for a domination victory you can either finish tradition/liberty faster than normal than delve into honor/commerce depending on your needs before opening rationalism and going the usual left side of rationalism into center line of order into finishing rationalism or you can keep the same speed as you'd normally be at just with more cities in your empire to strengthen your science output and production power without sacrificing your social policies.

Thus I would only recommend you to play with France if you don't want to go for cultural victories, but domination or even science instead. Otherwise I'd stick to other civilizations first and get back to France later.

 

[Arachnofiend]

Early aggression doesn't really work for culture victories, or rather it is a lot harder and doesn't do any better than peaceful/defensive culture. For a culture victory you basically just want to beeline the culture buildings as fast as possible with a 3-4 city tradition set up, occasionally going after a ranged unit tech to defend your territory.

Now, if you want to do early aggression and go for one of the other victory types, there's two techs you're going to be shooting for: Construction and Philosophy. Composite Bows are king in G&K; you want to churn those puppies out, preferably by building archers first and then upgrading them with cash upon hitting the tech. Philosophy grants the National College, which is all you really need for keeping up in science on the Emperor level. Generally what I shoot for is 6 composites, four cities, and NC up by turn 100 though the order of priorities depends on the closest neighbor and who it is.

 

[glory7]

not sure it would be worthwhile given that BNW is coming soon, but for early aggresion you can do it with any civ. Actually, I recommend practicing with Sweden or Austria (civs that has no advantage early).

Liberty is easier for early war, but you can do with tradition too. Just keep one thing one mind: when I can get 6 CBs + 1-2 last hitters and start the war? I would say t60 if you think about early wars.

One particular tip: Don't build lib early. Build archers instead. Get 6-8 archers and upgrade them and go.

 

[BrokTheFanatic]

Depends on your goals. But early early agression, I am usually just stealing workers and slowing a nearby AI by stealing his settler (into workers). Main goal is free workers, 2nd goal is to keep them from expanding into my territory or onto some lux/resource I want. You can take a city early but I would only do that if I had the luxuries for setting up a 4 city base + 1-2 puppets. You can harass and get workers with just 2-3 archers and 1 warrior (or make more and try for a small city). Just fall back and kill his units he sends to defend, then take workers. I do that while getting libraries setup in 2-3 cities. Once done you should be able to build the NC as you make a 1-2 settlers. If noone is close you can always just go for the NC directly with your starting city, then expand. If trees are around can always chop to build the great library, it is usually possible on Emperor with a city with above-average production and a couple trees to cut.

Anyways, if you grab a few free workers you will be set and the nearby AI civ will be hampered if you jump 1-2 of his settlers. Then just upgrade any archers into CBs and build some as needed (as above posters discuss) and you can attack or defend no problem. I personally like a 4 city tall base, it seems to generate enough gold and production to do whatever victory condition I go for.

The key to the CB rush is to first lure out and kill units near a 'soft target', which is usually any city that isn't the capital, isn't ~6+ pop and isn't on a hill surrounded by rugged terrain. You just have to gauge how aggressive you want to be based on how many CBs you can get into the field and how defensive or vulnerable nearby AI cities are. Sometimes you can only grab 1 and sometimes you can get 4-5 (though happiness is always a concern early on but maybe can have a religion in place to help as you take the 4th and 5th puppets), though if you can take that many it usually means you will cruise to a easy win.

An effective early military campaign can launch your civ well ahead of the pack. This is nearly always possible if some AI is close and isn't a very aggressive civ (they will have fewer units as they go for wonders, etc.). Even if aggressive it is not that hard, just takes a little longer. And then stealing workers = able to make more archers, the effect snowballs pretty quickly. Logistics is your main problem, can only extend so far and gold production is low. But usually who you are attacking will make gold+stuff offers after a bit and that keeps you churning units as you build up your main cities. Can then go pick on someone else close by.

So, I suggest harassing/worker stealing until the NC is built, then field enough units to take some cities, like 5+ ranged and 2-3 melee is usually more than enough, especially if they are upgraded some from harassing/fighting. Once you get the hang of it you'll slaughter Emperor and have to move up to Immortal and Diety.

 

[nanomage]

Early agression is a good way of preventing early rushes, although it's kinda exploiting the por ai.
If you start next to Monty and stay peaceful, chances are he'll be coming for your beating heart with a shimikakan and a horde of units on 40-60 turns. If you DoW him 10-ish, steal a worker/settler or two maybe kill a unit, he'll stay calm and rarely send more than a couple jags your way.

 

[Justice1337]

France is just fine for Cultural victories. Just don't build more than 5-6 cities and you'll be fine.

Whenever I play France I go Liberty, and more and more I am opening Liberty when I go for Cultural victories as well, so my advice is to start there. You can still open Tradition as your first policy because of the 3 culture, or just open Liberty if you get a Culture goody hut. Then you go down the left side of Liberty for your extra Settler, build 2 more, grab Legalism after you have Monuments in your 4 cities, then finish Liberty with Representation and Meritocracy. For your bonus GP from the Liberty finisher, grab either a Great Prophet or a Great Engineer for the Hagia Sophia, then pick Cathedrals. That should give you the most Culture output the earliest.


On early aggression, there are several different levels of commitment to analyze. At the lowest, you have the bare minimum amount of units needed to defend in case you're attacked, and how to use them best. In builder VC's like Science and Culture, most of the time you are here. If you are lucky you can take down a couple border cities, which you will want to raze, and then force a few favorable peace deals for some extra cash. If you are unlucky, you will be defending. But you will not be able to take Capitals.

On the other end of the spectrum is the full on warmonger stance of civs like Huns, Celts, Germany, Russia, Iroquois, etc. There, you beeline the military and luxury techs you need, emphasize production in a size 5-6 capital, save your gold for upgrades instead of Settlers, and hit your timings. It can be an effective game, but I don't think that's where you're going from the sound of it.

The other level of commitment is somewhere in between, such as Persia, Mongolia, Rome, etc. In this game you want to invest more in military than you otherwise would because of some early UU or midgame upgrade that allows you to gain space, but you also want to have an otherwise solid internal position to springboard from. I think this is more along the lines of what you're trying to do. My advice there is to spawn no more than 2 additional cities, build Archers after Scout/Monument/Shrine in Capital, Archer > Monument > Library in the other 2 cities. Don't purchase an early Settler, instead build one at 5 pop and get one from Liberty, then save for upgrades. Hit Construction at about the timing that you are finishing Archers in your extra cities, then upgrade and go Philo if you haven't already, build the NC. You should be able to do a lot of damage like this without delaying your Culture and Tech very much.