Need Help on Diety...

[papamaverick]

Hey all

I'm playing Diety for the first time and, although I will probably win this game in the end, it's been pretty difficult. Lemme walk you through it real quick

I started out on a large map with 12 civs, and my first goal was to grab enough space to grow in. All my cities early on built a warrior, followed by a granary, followed by settler after settler (I pop-rushed the granary). I ended up with a very large empire with 24 cities, which was cool...I was a good bit larger than the average civ and my score shows that.

My problem, however, was that I was soooo far behind in science that I couldn't do anything but sit there and grow peacefully. I initially set my science rate to 90% as that was the cutoff for shorter research (22 turns as opposed to 32) and was able to (somehow) maintain it high enough to get the short(er) research time throughout the early game. Still, by the time I met my first neighbor I was 5-6 techs behind, with no money (since I spent it all on science). Mike's Chapel and JS Bach's Cathedral were BOTH built while I still had three techs left to research to simply get to the middle ages. Now everyone else is in the industrial age, still 4-5 advances in front of me, but I've grown in culture a good bit and that coupled with my size is keeping me alive.

I couldn't start any fighting though because I was so far behind in tech that all my units would've been far outgunned. I normally like to war early on (swordsmen era), once I have cavalry, and then again once I have tanks/panzers. War is an integral part of my strategy, I try to spread slowly but surely throughout the game so that by modern times I own half the world.

Any help on keeping up with the others in tech? Once I'm able to catch up to them, then it's easy--I'll set my science to 0%, have one scientist in one city to get the 32 turn rate, and then buy a tech from the first person who gets it and then sell it to all the others. With some of the industrial and modern-age techs, civs will give you 150 gold per turn for each tech.

Anyways, I need help with the early game to keep up in science without my expansion suffering.

Also, I'm convinced that the AI start out with 2-3 settlers, as they've always built five cities before I've built two.

Thanks all,

Dave

 

[Qitai]

32 turn rate? Get your patch. The latest is version 1.29 just out of the oven last weekend.

 

[Moonsinger]

When play the Diety level, always set your research rate to zero after you discover the Wheel. If your civ already started with the Wheel, you may set your research rate to zero immediately. It always cheaper and faster to buy techs from the AI than to research them yourself. In my current Deity game, I got RailRoad by 300 AD (which is about 2 techs behide the tech-lead.). You can read more about it on this post.

 

[Kaitou]

I agree with Moonsinger. I've tried so many strategies playing Deity just to get creamed BIIIIIG TIIIIIIME! The only way to keep tek parity w/ the AI is to buy ALL teks from them. Keep your science rate at zero. Keep a close eye on the AI research, i.e. check where they're at every single turn on the Diplomacy screen (tedious, but hey, it's worth it!). Eventually, you'll notice that one civ has a one tek lead on the others. Buy the tek from that civ at any rate, and swap it for other teks with the others. Sometimes you'll have to throw in some $ or gpt, but it's worth it. Rinse and repeat every four or five teks. Using that strategy I've never been more than 3 or 4 teks behind and on par most of the time... Good Luck!

 

[skaternate]

It is possible to be ahead of the AI in techs, I did it in my GOTM 7 game. By the end I was three techs ahead of most AI, two ahead of one. And won via space race vic. If you don't become the major super power real early though, you never will. On diety the AI will use stacks of say 75 units easily. Sometimes more than double that. The AI starts with:
2 settlers
2 workers
6 defensive land units
2 offensive land units
16 free units
4 units extra free per city

and the AI also builds and learns at twice the rate you can. Coupled with rampet AI tech trading, scientist + spies, are a must.
My only suggestion use the Iroquis on ANY Diety games. The MW are a great advantage in the early game. Also don't learn anything if your nighbor built the great library. Ounce you take out the city where the GL is held you only have too hold it for one turn, and you get ALL knowledge up to the current level of learning. Another great advantage. AND NEVER BOTHER ATTEMPTING TO BUILD A GREAT WONDER, its not even worth it, you have a city that can build it in 26, the'll have an equivelent city that can build it in 13.

 

[Moonsinger]

Originally posted by skaternate
It is possible to be ahead of the AI in techs, I did it in my GOTM 7 game.

It depends on the number of AI civs in the game. The more civs, the less chance for us to get ahead. I don't usually catch up or get ahead of AI in techs until a couple centuries after my civ successfully switch to Democracy government.

 

[skaternate]

AHH Moonsinger that also all depends on how succesfull you are at warmongering. You see the more civs = less room for growth. If you kill off a few civs and take their room for growth you can easily be three times the size of any other civ. Succesfull use of diplomacy and and a strong army and then you will be able to take over a good 1/4 of the world in before the industrial era. Then I usually just build up internally and try to just beat them to all techs by one turn, sell it to them before they learn it for gpt and then your set, as long as you keep a strong standing army at least, preferably with 10+ armies. That's just the way I play though.

 

[Moonsinger]

Originally posted by skaternate
AHH Moonsinger that also all depends on how succesfull you are at warmongering. You see the more civs = less room for growth.

That's true. However, at Deity level, AI can produce units really fast. How are you able to overpower them in the early stage.

Note: patch 1.29f seems to correct all of these. Now, their research and production seem to slow down quite a bit at Deity level. So far, I have no problem in catching up with them during the Middle Age on a huge map with 12 civs.

 

[skaternate]

with the Iroquis! The mounted warrior has the ability to retreat, albiet not every time, but some of the time, and is quite a powerful unit in the early stage. I use about 12 explorer to hog all goody huts (may be less depending on map) this will usually keep me around = to the AI in tech, I mass produce MW and can usually take out my nearest rival. This gets me a GL and I use him to rush a FP in their homeland, I now have to hearts of growth and this makes me roughly = to the AI in production. I then can usually mass produce more MW and take out the next nearest civ. I am then the superpower for the rest of the game. However I have never been able to do this with any other civ in the anciant era at least. I have used the chineas riders in the middle ages to blitz the AI though its usually only one civ I can get. Occasionaly two.

 

[Sullla]

The group at Realms Beyond Civ just completed a Deity competition game with the Romans on a large map. There have been some excellent discussions afterwards on how to succeed on Deity. If anyone is curious, you can read the discussion thread here.

 

[Moonsinger]

To skaternate: Thanks for the info; I will try the Iroquis in my next game. So far, I have played French, Egypt, Greek, and China (those far were the only four that I have played so far; I have nothing agaisnt other civs, just haven't gotten the time to play them yet).

To Sullla: Cool site!