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Need help with UA balancing.

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Creation & Customization' started by Homusubi, Jan 23, 2014.

  1. Homusubi

    Homusubi Lafcadio Hearn Wannabe

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2012
    Messages:
    1,035
    Can you tell me whether these traits are OP, UP, or neither please?

    1. +2 Food and +1 Culture from unimproved forest and jungle tiles. Workers cannot build farms. Note: This is a hunter-gatherer civ, so the no-farms clause is mandatory. Note 2: The civ has a UI that gives tech-enhanced faith to jungles. Note 3: The civ has a jungle start bias.

    2. Cannot generate faith. Buildings that usually spawn prophets (e.g. Hagia Sophia) spawn scientists instead. Shrines produce 2 science and 1 GSP. Temples produce 4 science and 2 GSP. Note: It is possible that this civ, when completed, will have a scientist-replacing UU.

    3. +2 Science from Plantations. +1 Science from unimproved Forest and Jungle tiles. Note: The civ does not have a start bias.

    4. All pre-renaissance melee and archer units start with Shock I. Note: The civ has a musketman UU that requires iron, but takes advantage of the UA. Note 2: The civ has a tundra start bias as its UB (which produces iron) requires it.

    Any advice?
     
  2. Galgus

    Galgus Emperor

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2012
    Messages:
    1,695
    1. The :c5culture: seems a bit much if they are getting faith from Jungles.

    I'd want to know exactly what the UI is to balance it, but I'd either knock off 1 :c5food: or the :c5culture:.
    __

    2. Rather bland, but the theme is clear. I'm worried that the flat :c5science: would be overpowered early on and relatively negligable later, but I'm not sure what would be best.

    __

    3. Similar concern that they would rocket ahead in :c5science: early. Would it make any sense for them to have a UB or somesuch that would give the the :c5science: later in the game?

    __

    4. Seems underpowered, but military-focuses civs don't interest me much either way.
     
  3. COF

    COF Emperor

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2013
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    Location:
    Bosnia and Herzegovina
    1.Seems strange, you would probably have to babysit and take care of your territory like crazy, if someone removes that forest you are basically screwed.

    2.The science output should be lower than the usual faith output.

    3.+1 Science would be extremely broken early on and would give you an unfair advantage that could last throughout the whole game.

    4.Alright, I suppose.
     
  4. Neirai

    Neirai the Forgiven

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2013
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    Location:
    Canada
    For an Atheism-based civ, why not try something like this?

    1. Create custom beliefs in addition to the ones that already exist. Beliefs like "Humanism" or "Evolution" or what. Either give them bonuses or don't. Create enough beliefs to fill up all of the slots -- Founder, Enhancer, 1 and 2, Reformation. This will stop people from adding beliefs to Atheism.

    2. When you civ founds its Capital, use Lua to found them the Athiest religion with all its beliefs.

    3. Give your civ UA bonuses for Not Having a religion and penalties for having one (besides Atheism.) Also, suppress your faith generation using the techniques discussed in your other thread on the subject.

    4. Allow your Civ to purchase a UU that functions as an Inquisitor, but doesn't cost Faith. It could do other things, too. You could have more than one, too.

    This will make it so that your Atheism isn't bland. It's not like UA: You don't have a religion. It's instead UA: You must fight to stop the spread of religion in your lands, and if you do, you will be awesome.

    Build Inquisitors to stop religion. But religion will try to infect you. :)
     
  5. Homusubi

    Homusubi Lafcadio Hearn Wannabe

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2012
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    So here's what I've got:

    1. Yeah, it's strange. Not OP though, surely? Maybe remove the culture from jungles, but keep it for forests? PS the UI is jungle-only and gives 1 faith at Philosophy, +1 at Theology, and +1 at Architecture.

    2. +2 science is nothing after medieval, I'm trying to effectively give them another library. You might be right about the temple though.

    3. The UB is already science based (+10% science, replacing the garden, available at guilds rather than theology), so I wouldn't want to make a new UB. If the UA I suggested is broken, then how about +2 science from every improved luxury resource? It wouldn't be as broken because you don't get a worker at the start of the game.

    4. Would it be OP if I also gave them another (regular) promotion e.g. great generals I?
     
  6. ReasoningMass

    ReasoningMass Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2013
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    Location:
    Minnesota
    • This UA is brokenly good. Jungles would give you 4 :c5food: and 1 :c5culture: on turn 0 well every other civ is waiting until Civil Service to just match the :c5food: output. I would maybe start it off at +1 :c5food: and add +1 :c5culture: to drama and poetry and +1 :c5food: to civil service. With that said I do really like the UA idea in theory.

    • I don't see this UA being super OP but I think it would be equivalent to Babylon at least, top tier but not broken. What you have to watch out for is the extra :c5science: and great scientists given them to much of an edge early on.

    • I really can't say; dependeds on their UB and UU I guess.

    • I'm with Galgus on this.

    I'd love to see these Civs when they're done. Best of Luck :)
     
  7. Homusubi

    Homusubi Lafcadio Hearn Wannabe

    Joined:
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    All four are ingame right now, but are awaiting the creation of a bunch of other civs. Re: the first UA, remember that +4 food is no use if you can't produce anything, and jungles don't give hammers.

    For the third one, it has been changed to +2 science from Plantations and +1 from Mines. The second part may seem OP, but remember that mines don't get used until at least the classical era as the city is too busy collecting food.

    Lastly, with the atheism civ, remember that Mayan pyramids are stronger than the atheists' shrines.
     

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