crunk munki
Chieftain
would the spearmen without bronze weaponry (egypt, inca, maya, aztec, etc.) compare to those with it? would they fit better in civ3 as warriors or spearmen?
need info about ancient military
- Thread starter crunk munki
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Gogf
Indescribable
Well, they should be called spearman. Stats, I'm not positive about. I thought Egypt had bronze.
crunk munki
Chieftain
I'd also like to know if bronze was discovered by 4000 bc. What I'm thinking of doing is adding craftsmanship as a prerequisite to bronze working. Spearmen would come with craftsmanship and an early swordsman would come with bronze working. I'd put them both into the same tech, but civs like egypt had organized spearmen without bronze spears or swords. However, did north american indians like the Iroquois even use spearmen like that? They had spears, but weren't they thrown?
Stupid civ3, making me think and whatnot.
My best solution so far is to add craftsmanship or something before bronze working, and make them both very cheap.
Stupid civ3, making me think and whatnot.
My best solution so far is to add craftsmanship or something before bronze working, and make them both very cheap.
crunk munki
Chieftain
maybe spearmen should come with a tactics tech?
crunk munki
Chieftain
egypt only had bronze once the hittites or somebody kicked their ass. in the time of the pyramids, they didn't have it
Gogf
Indescribable
The native American never had any metal, even bronze. They probably didn't have this type of spearman, as it is sort of useless without a metal shield/metal armor, and a metal (strong) spear.
crunk munki
Chieftain
egypt only had bronze once the hittites or somebody kicked their ass. in the time of the pyramids, they didn't have it
crunk munki
Chieftain
did the mesoamericans have them?
the meso americans did have access to metals such as bronze, and copper- but the stone obsidian was stronder, and held an edge better then metal- hell, the stuff even gave the spainards a run for there money in the conquest of the new world (just as a note, it mainlly rebelling tribes, and not actual spainsih who were doing the fighting in that time)
as ofr a new tech- I suggest copper smithing as a prerequstie for bronze working
as ofr a new tech- I suggest copper smithing as a prerequstie for bronze working
Bronze didn't appear on the scene until about 2000 BCE; by 1850 BCE the Old World "perimeter" of bronze working extended from the Harappa (Indus Valley) culture, west to the Balkans (i.e., the Greeks), across the Med to Egypt, and the Arabian peninsula -- and that's about it.
-Oz
-Oz
The Last Conformist
Irresistibly Attractive
A stone-tipped spear would not be much inferior to a bronze one, if at all. Steel is another story, but basically anything that can hold an edge is fine for spears and arrows.
I don't know if it holds in the then civilized parts of the world, but up in modern Sweden, flintstone remained the favoured material for arrow tips during the entire Bronze Age.
Also, the CivIII Spearman unit is a bit fictional - a real unit of Bronze Age spearmen would have been used offensively, not as some sort of anit-cavalry pike block.
I don't know if it holds in the then civilized parts of the world, but up in modern Sweden, flintstone remained the favoured material for arrow tips during the entire Bronze Age.
Also, the CivIII Spearman unit is a bit fictional - a real unit of Bronze Age spearmen would have been used offensively, not as some sort of anit-cavalry pike block.
thestonesfan
A Client of Ron Kuby
People were using bronze before they could write about it. I think the famous "Iceman" mummy, found in Europe, was over 5000 years old and he had a bronze axe.
As for mesoamerica, the Incas used it extensively, I believe.
As for mesoamerica, the Incas used it extensively, I believe.
The evidence I cite is archaeological; perhaps you are thinking of copper, which was indeed in use ca. the 6th-5th millenia BCE.
I realize I did make a "mental typo": The 2000 BCE date I use refelcts a fairly widespread distribution; limited use of bronze occurs in Greece and China ca. 3000 BCE; bronze use in SE Asia dates to ~2000 BCE.
The earliest known bronze cast in the New World is 1100 CE (not BCE) in what is now Bolivia; you are quite correct re: the Inca use of bronze, although they never "progressed" to iron working.
-Oz
(sorry, double post)
My English may let me down here, but doesn't smithing imply hammering on softened metal? You don't hammer bronze, you cast it, and I'm fairly certain this is also the case for copper.Originally posted by Xen
...as ofr a new tech- I suggest copper smithing as a prerequstie for bronze working
So Copper Casting could be a new tech, but I don't think it's important enough (in civ terms) to give a new unit, as stone was used parallell with copper and bronze for thousands of years.
stonesfan and ozy: I also remember Ötzi ( = Iceman) having a copper axe.
Hi mrtn,
You're most correct re: hammering vs. casting ... And adding "Copper Casting" would also get us into a "technicality" of suggesting a requirement of both copper and tin to make bronze-age units ...
-Oz
The Last Conformist
Irresistibly Attractive
thestonefan: The Incans indeed used bronze, but they're not in Mesoamerica!
thestonesfan
A Client of Ron Kuby
They are according to Civ3.
The Last Conformist
Irresistibly Attractive
Civ3 also gives Edo and Tokyo as separate Japanese cities, spells well-known places like Edirne and Heidelberg wrongly and generally isn't a reliable source for historical geography.
-- Actually not a reliable source for historical ANYTHING, e.g. :
1. "Ulan Baator" as a cultural leader for the Mongols (it's their modern capitol)
2. "Medieval Infantry" -- a complete fiction UNLESS describing dismounted knights, e.g. English or French at Crecy etc.
3. "Enkidu" warriors (often misspelled within the files "Endiku") - not warriors at all but the best friend of Gilgamesh in the epic of same ...
... And that's just the tip of the proverbial iceberg ...
-Oz
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