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Need Science tips on Immortal

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by Lukelbs, Mar 23, 2015.

  1. Lukelbs

    Lukelbs Chieftain

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    So right now level 6 (Emperor?) is too easy for me but Immortal is too difficult. I think it has to mainly do with my science. I've tried a few different games 3 or 4 with Russia and 2 with Morocco but ended up quitting each of them after I started falling so far behind. I was trying to go for a Diplomacy victory by building up enough GNP that I could just buy out all of the city states but I get left in the dust when it comes to science so I don't have a shot at building some of the wonders I need like Petra, Forbidden Palace or Leaning Tower. I don't expect to get all of them but I don't seem to have a legitimate shot at any of them unless I throw everything I have into getting one.


    I always feel like I'm behind after the ancient era. Maybe it's how I start? Usually I start my games out by building a worker or a scout depending on if I have a luxury resource I can work on almost right away like Salt or Silver. Writing is usually one of the first 3 or 4 techs I discover but even when I've tried making a point of building a library as soon as possible I'm still behind in science and ended up neglecting everything else.

    Any advice?
     
  2. baranysos

    baranysos Chieftain

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    Being behind after the ancient era isn't a problem; you try to catch up on tech for the first part of the game. Starting with scout-monument and stealing the worker from either a CS or an AI gives your production queue some room to build granary, early library etc.

    Also, early National College is important. People get it around turn 80-85 i think, but my fastest was t95. It was ok though. And you can use trade routes with AI to get some early science.
     
  3. Averylongname

    Averylongname Chieftain

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    since you are already on immortal, I think you understand that population equals science, so grow your cities as much as you can.
    The wonders that you mentioned are possible to get in immortal. Petra makes sure you reality beeline the tech and nobody took desert folklore and you'll have a good shot. Forbidden palace before you build check if anyone open patronage, if not you'll have a shot. Pisa only build it when you are the one who found world congress. And in general for any wonders check the tech cost in the tech tree to see if there's any player you know already have the tech and look at their capitals and try to spot if they are building the wonder you want.
    As far as science strategy, early NC, beeline education, public school bla bla bla, I'm sure you know.
    Fill out rationalism and have a decent faith generation is very important. A decent faith generation could give you 2 to 3 extra GS that you don't have otherwise.
    I think a early library isn't very helpful. A library this early, your city is probably still at 4 or 5 pop, which is just 2 science. I think it's better to build some caravan either use as internal food trade route to grow or just send it to the ai will give you more science.
     
  4. BARBEERIAN

    BARBEERIAN Chieftain

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    Ottawa, ON, Canada
    I wouldn't build a worker first, send your warrior out to scout for the nearest civ and steal one of theirs, then on your way back home steal one from a CS. Send your warrior back out to find another civ and steal a worker from them. The CS you stole a worker from should have another worker by now, go steal it too. I generally build Scout > monument > granary > 2/3 settlers. Then build libraries asap in all cities and NC asap. Now start a beeline towards civil service then education and get a university up in your capital ASAP.
     
  5. reddishrecue

    reddishrecue Chieftain

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    On immortal, you have to make sure that you get a good food output from your capital and your nearest cities at the beginning so that you can at least make it to education and scientific theory. Once you are at least in scientific theory, try to open the rationalism social policy tree and be happy because the rationalism opener only works for your civilization when you have 0 or more happiness. Internal trade routes and trading with your own cities can bring in more food to you which can help science. Work scientists in science buildings such as universities and public schools and you'll be make good science eventually. If you can get food cargo ships in your cities then that would be a lot better.
     
  6. Sayya

    Sayya Chieftain

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    I just wanted to point out something that isn't immediately obvious (but you can probably see it mentioned in a few other places):

    The lower your difficulty, the slower it is going to be to tech.

    There are two reasons for this: Trade routes, and the science comeback mechanic.

    In Diety, if you completely beeline rush a caravan and pump it out asap, he's going to give you 3-4 science. Close by civs will also give you trade routes that yield the same amount. So trade routes early on when you're making relatively low science will be a lot higher on Diety than it will be on Immortal.

    Next is the comeback mechanics- For each discovered civilization that knows a technology that you don't, it's a % lower (You might have noticed if you look at your tech tree in future eras, for example, some will say '12 turns' and the others will say '13'. That is because some civilizations researched the 12 turns and not the 13 yet).

    Also, spies put in any city will basically yield free techs faster in diety, whereas they'll yield less on other difficulties.

    So if you're reading a guide to science victory and you see "Turn 90 National College" and you go " I don't even have Philosophy by that time!", don't be too concerned- your numbers will be higher than on Diety.
     
  7. reddishrecue

    reddishrecue Chieftain

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    You stealing from AIs in Deity is a lot easier than you stealing technologies in lower difficulties such as king or below. AIs will most likely not have that much technologies by the time that you reach the renaissance era that you will most likely have to move your spy around to other capital cities that you have accepted an embassy with. However, the disadvantage here is that by the time you move your spy in different capitals that have accepted your embassy throughout the map, a spy will already steal a technology from your capital because of your superior research in the easier difficulties.
     
  8. phillipwyllie

    phillipwyllie Wannabe Deity

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    @OP: How quick were you winning on Emperor? If it was pre t250 then you should have no problems with Immortal. If its post t300 then you have stuff to iron out.

    I recommend a Tradition 3-city NC with the 4th city founded on the turn you complete the NC, unless you are Spain and can settle FOY(you can now sell all your luxuries). If you are building wonders you aren't building settlers which in the long run is the key to science.
     
  9. CraigMak

    CraigMak The Borg

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    If science is your main concern go for two city tradition. Scout, Scout, (optional shrine), Acquire 2 hills and work them 2 pop or 3pop on a settler. Once your 2nd city is up go for a granary and caravan it asap. Get sailing and send a caravan from your 2nd city to your cap. Get writing so that your 2nd city can make a library right after the granary.

    Go for your NC and then leaf out more cities as you see fit. This build should give you a turn 50 - 60 NC. On quick speed naturally.
     
  10. Lukelbs

    Lukelbs Chieftain

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    Thanks for the tips! Going to start a new game in a few minutes gonna see how it goes.



    With a diplomatic victory the earliest I've won is at turn 386 with Polynesia. I'm not looking to be a science powerhouse necessarily but within the top 5 would be nice.

    Emperor is hardly a challenge anymore. I usually get any wonder I want and have a boatload of great engineers and merchants and throw my money at all the city states.
     
  11. Chicoutimi

    Chicoutimi Chieftain

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    Build 5 or 6 cities early vers fast, send all your caravans feeding your capital and enjoy. Dont build any Wonder at all, build army instead when you dont know what to build and you might get more cities.

    More cities = getting a bit delayed at start for a easier end game.
    its normal to be late in tech, once you got tech lead the game is won
     

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