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Need Tips : Great persons and Jungle start.

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Strategy & Tips' started by Memoryjar, Nov 18, 2013.

  1. Memoryjar

    Memoryjar Emperor

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2013
    Messages:
    1,244
    Location:
    Lille, France
    Hi all,

    I struggle to improve myself.

    Thanks to you, you learn me how important is National College, rush buy scientific building and how to have a valuable economy.

    But, I don't understand how to manage great persons.

    For GS, how many academies do I need. I settle two or three academies to industrial era. After, I bubble them for fast research. Is it optimal ? How many academies is a good base. For 3 cities, and for 5 or 6 cities ?

    For GW, when do you build Writer's Guild ? ASAP ? But before or after National Epic ? If, I'm going into cultural victory, I use to make great work. For other conditions, I take fast culture to unlock social policies.

    For GA, ASAP too ? Do I need to rush Guilds before Metal casting ? Only for cultural victory or anyway ? Like for GW, I make GW if I'm looking for CV. Otherwise I start golden age.

    For GM. I'm lost. I use to stock them until Broadway. But after, is it more important to make Great work for CV or send them play concert in foreign civs ?

    At last, how do you manage a jungle start. It's such a lack of hammer. I use to rush workers and open frequently liberty only to have fast workers. Is there a way to manage correctly a jungle start. Understand only 1 or 2 free, all others are jungle tiles.

    I'm playing in Emperor, random civ, random standard maps, standard time.
     
  2. phillipwyllie

    phillipwyllie Wannabe Deity

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2003
    Messages:
    1,458
    Location:
    4 Hexes from FoY
    I myself never make academies, opting to bulb the GS at an appropriate moment. Either when my science is at it's maximum(all science building built in all non-puppets) or when I need the currently researching tech yesterday.

    I consider jungle starts the worst starts you can get as your city will have low production, sure you get science and food but if the city cant produce then its no use.

    I take it you're getting beat on science, my advice grow your cities as science is a function of population multiplied by certain science buildings. As you're on emperor I'd beeline The Great Library(Writing) as not only will it get you through the Classical tech tree in no time it gives +%50 to science, depending on your opponents you are looking to build it before turn 40. If you research Calender before you have built the GL then you can pick Philosophy as your free tech allowing you to build the NC. This will turn a 6bpt to around 29bpt.
     
  3. Wojciech Rodzik

    Wojciech Rodzik Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2013
    Messages:
    43
    GS - I use them for academies (grassland, away from freshwater) as long as I have't made to modern era - then BULB
    GE - if I get one from liberty - hurry wonder I need. I try to get one manufactory for capital, rest I bourn for wonders\NC
    GM - try not to generate those befofre you get slots. If not going for CV - ignore them, just build their guild and don't stack it.
    GW - most importand - if CV - obviously try to save them most of them for Great Works, if you are not going for CV - bourn - fast rationalism is great (possibly save one or 2 for that)
    GA - get Chitzen Itza, bourn:) - if CV, try to save some. Control your slots, after archeology you must spam archeologists quickly to beat AI to unoccupied sites - easy to run down on slots.
     
  4. Silverfuturist

    Silverfuturist King

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2010
    Messages:
    684
    Here is another factor about great people I seldom see discussed: when you settle a scientist, you are reducing your tile yields.

    For example: academy on grassland gets you 2 food, but a farm (like on river when you have civil service) gets you 4 food. So you give up 2 food for that academy (more than 2 food with all the multipliers, like trad finisher.) Over the period of a game that is a lot of extra food given up.

    Here is another factor: settled great people can be pillaged or sat upon, so you get nothing those turns. Yea, the AI is dumb, but when you are playing against smart humans they can do some cruel things to your planted great people setups. If a civ is next to you they can also use a chain of generals to steal your lands (AI doesn't know how to do this.)

    But... holding great people does cost you unit maintenance, so you do lose gold, and settling does not cost you gold maint. Food and hammers are almost always more desirable than gold, I do not settle academies except for special cases like Bab's free settler.
     
  5. TheGrumpyBuddha

    TheGrumpyBuddha King

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    Aug 8, 2013
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    823
    I understand that awhile back someone ran the numbers and found that it's best to plant GS before Scientific Theory, but hold onto them after. I'm not sure that it's best but that's generally what I did even before I heard that, and it feels right. I would certainly plant them before Education and probably a little bit after, at a minimum.
     
  6. joshua43214

    joshua43214 King

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2012
    Messages:
    985
    Here are the general rules of thumb for great people

    GS's: Settle 2 or 3 and save rest till 8 turns after labs are up and staffed in all cities.
    GE's: save for a wonder (Sistine, Hubble, etc), or avoid generating
    GMer: avoid at all costs unless Venice
    GA's: bulb when you need some extra culture, hammers, or gold, otherwise make a great work
    GW's: save at least one to bulb the Rationalism finisher, bulb on a level 2 tenet, bulb one on secularism, bulb or make great works with the rest. I tend to bulb all of mine.
    GMus: do not even build the guild unless you are going for CV, then build the guild when you will only have GM's after internet, radar, and the NVC are done.
     
  7. Memoryjar

    Memoryjar Emperor

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    Location:
    Lille, France
    Thanks to all !

    I tried to not settle GS just bulb them. It's awful after Scientific Theory. Never saw such turns for research.
     
  8. BWS

    BWS Big Bradd Wolfe

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    Jan 4, 2009
    Messages:
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    San Jose, CA
    This works for G&K but not BNW. Great Scientists don't increase in value if you hang onto them in BNW.
     
  9. Deau

    Deau Emperor

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    Apr 17, 2011
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    Quebec, Can
    Yeah they still do. Only great musicians' strength is fixed at birth. Even great writers can be saved to bulb appropriately. It just looks odd because the interface shows their strength but it will change over turn.
     
  10. BWS

    BWS Big Bradd Wolfe

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    Oops, my bad. I had heard the opposite, that GS and GW are fixed like GM, but I hadn't tested it myself.


    – Bradd
     
  11. Cromagnus

    Cromagnus Deity

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    Sep 11, 2012
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    IMHO it should work like this. I think saving great people is a stupid mechanic. But alas. :p

    I wish Great Writers worked like that too. As it is, saving them for the World's Fair is just flat-out superior to making great works.
     
  12. joshua43214

    joshua43214 King

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    lol, if you get rid of the mechanic for saving GS's, suddenly SV's would all be +300 turns unless you get a big love fest map for RA's to the end game.
     
  13. Cromagnus

    Cromagnus Deity

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    Yes, but it would make the journey more interesting than "plant until public schools then save until 8 turns after Labs"

    It would be, hmm, *which* techs do I bulb? It would make it more worthwhile to bulb early and also more worthwhile to plant academies.

    I feel the same thing about GW. I would save a GW until I hit the Renaissance and then bulb it to get into Rationalism faster. Or maybe even build the Writer's Guild ASAP to get me through Liberty faster. Or *gasp* make a Great Work of Writing.

    Now I just save it for WF. :p

    I'd like it to be less "this is always the best thing to do".

    EDIT: Also, I don't think it would make it t300+. I think it would make it more like t260+. You can win an SV on t220 on Deity right now, maybe even t205 with a lucky game. My best efforts are usually ~t245, but I'm a relative newb at Deity play. It *would* make Domination the hands-down fastest Victory type again though, which is probably not good.
     

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