Negative Promotions: Leaking Hull (Ships) / Infected Wounds (Land Units) / ... [IMPLEMENTED]

[raystuttgart]

Always can count on you in that: with most added/ changed stuff. :undecided:
...
To balance out possible negative stuff

There is no need for that, because they are NOT permanent.
They are just temporary until you rest for 2 lousy turrns (on GameSpeed Normal) in a friendly city (e.g. Native Village).

Seriously, we are discussing again dozens of post for nothing ...
Is this concept really that cruel ? Is it really such a big issue to have to sail to a friendly city (e.g. Native Village) and rest there a bit ?

It is the same overexageration all the time whenever I suggest something that does not throw free goodies for everybody ...
Even the slightest bit of challenge like just having to rest in a friendly city (e.g. Native Village) for a few turns will suddenly make the mod unbeatable and totally ruin all balance ...

Oh my god, this mod must really be a monster that nobody can beat anymore without cheating in Worldbuilder ...
(So players actually asking for a feature to remove "Worldbuilder" or asking for harder AI must actually be suicidal.)

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Summary:

I explained what the concept will do, why it will do it and how it will do it.

Discussing for dozens of post if 2 lousy turns of resting in a friendly city will ruin the game and needs to be balanced is otherwise a bad joke.
(In my eyes this concept is actually balancing the overpowered Exploration System. And thus it does not need to be balanced by further goodies itself ...)

Vote "yes" if you like it.
Vote "no" if you do not.

 

[ConjurerDragon]

There is no need for that, because they are NOT permanent.
They are just temporary until you rest for 2 lousy turrns (on GameSpeed Normal) in a friendly city (e.g. Native Village).

Seriously, we are discussing again dozens of post for nothing ...
Is this concept really that cruel ? Is it really such a big issue to have to sail to a friendly city (e.g. Native Village) and rest there a bit ?
...

Not at all. I personally find it rather weird that my warships can rest and heal right next to my enemies harbour or within his cultural borders. Having to actually go to a friendly dock to make larger repairs simulated by "negative promotions" sounds far better.

 

[raystuttgart]

Having to actually go to a friendly dock to make larger repairs simulated by "negative promotions" sounds far better.

At least there are still a few player that like to have a bit more challenge in this mod.

That is exactly what these "Negative Promotions" simulate:
The "Need for larger repairs / longe rest".

They do not permanently damage your Ship / Unit.
Thus there is nothing "unfair" about it.

 

[orlanth]

I really like the idea, I'd also like to see it possible to have Promotions (either positive or negative) able to be modded to expire after a set number of turns. This worked well in the FfH mod of Civ4 for a variety of temporary buff/debuff conditions. This could also work well with expanded Combat system features, for example a unit that fled combat making it gain a temporary status Demoralized for a few turns (easier to wipe out if an attacker successfully pursues it, so it doesn't become frustrating chasing down repeatedly retreating units like in Crusader kings )

 

[modmod]

It is the same overexageration

Is it really such a big issue

suddenly make the mod unbeatable and totally ruin all balance ...

Overexageration comes from you with similars -> enlarge issues.

As always I am not deeply agains stuff which are real/ historical - like this.
But there are always countermeasures which are also real which decrease the effect or can make that null and void.
So when stuff has some reality needs countermeasures with some reality.

In the same manner (for negative promotions) for example in ww1 no one should think about gas masks/ any protection against chemical weapons. Why should they?
Countermeasures not needed, effects should come in full force.

In the real world always ways to counter negative stuff.

---
For stuff which is more likely about gameplay (less from real world) - in general terms.
You can always count on me:
- objection in most cases about more difficulty/ challange (usually not the concept/ system -> but what is the outcome/ it does/ intentions how it will work in game)
- to think about how to use any new/ changed feature/ system -> to throw neutral/ free goddies (no any challange which cannot be countered in different ways)
- to keep the game simple/ close to the original -> except if reality on stake (for immersion can go into ultra complex)
- to do not care if that is a human only with benefits (oppose if human only with disadvantage)
---
- when something unacceptable there are NO long objections (often not even short ones) -> simple remove/ disable
- when something is unfavorable and that is more quick to correct it -> again not worth long comments
Prefer not to be the enemy of myself -> to correct something is often shorter than argue about that.
---

In short:
There are no long objections when something is either: really big issue, unacceptable, totally ruin anyhing.
-> That is either silence, or a short unacceptable/ please include how to remove that.
-> We already agreed on this.
(Reasons why I did drop SP system (how should/ intented to work), or not even commented on guns not units/ new city founding (settler)/ Connection and Distance to Capitol, etc...)

Objections comes when something is more or less ok (or real) -> but have some minor to mid level issues with SOME parts. Only then worth time to comment/ argue about parts.

 

[raystuttgart]

Overexageration comes from you with similars ...

Yes, because at some point I am fed up posting / discussing for nothing ...
Sorry, but this is wasting my time.

I will rather invest it to actually work on the mod.
The concept is accepted already anyways as it seems.

 

[Elirector]

There is no reasonable way to do implement something like this in Civ4Col.
I also doubt it would be any fun ...

It can be a penalty to terrain movement cost

 

[raystuttgart]

It can be a penalty to terrain movement cost

We could give "Damaged Ruder" penalties in "Favourable Winds / Disfavourable Winds / Storms".
(So it is a bit different than "Damaged Sails" which gives general Movement Points reduction.)

 

[raystuttgart]

@Community:

Could somebody support me and create Promotion Buttons for this?
(Please create a new Buttons Atlas: NegativePromotionsAtlas.dds)

• During Combat (all) Ships have a chance to get "Leaking Hull" (causing damage every turn / inverted "Healing Bonus")
  
• During Combat (all) Ships have a chance to get "Damaged Sails" (reducing movement speed / inverted "Movement Bonus")
• During Combat (all) Ships have a chance to get "Damaged Rudder" (reducing movement speed / inverted "Movement Bonus" in Terrain Features Storm / Favourable Winds / Disfavourable Winds / Fog)
  
• During Combat War Ships have a chance to get "Damaged Cannons Deck" (reducing combat strength / inverted "Combat Strength Bonus")
• During Combat Transport Ships have a chance to get "Damaged Cargo Space" (reducing cargo slots / inverted "Cargo Slot Bonus")
  
• ...

• During Combat (all) Land Units have a chance to get "Infected Wounds" (causing damage every turn / inverted "Healing Bonus")
• During Combat Mounted Land Units have a chance to get "Wounded Horses" (reducing movement speed / inverted "Movement Bonus")
• During Combat (all) Land Units have a chance to get "Damaged Weapons" (reducing combat strength / inverted "Combat Strength Bonus")
• During Combat Land Transports have a chance to get "Damaged Cargo Space" (reducing cargo slots / inverted "Cargo Slot Bonus")
  
• ...

Thanks in advance.

 

[Tugboatspotter]

Ruder is German and rudder is English. Ruder in English means to be more rude.

Just an fyi.

 

[ConjurerDragon]

Ruder is German and rudder is English. Ruder in English means to be more rude.

Just an fyi.

Why not helm instead of rudder? Then we forego the false friend in language and it reminds me of Spelljammer.

 

[raystuttgart]

Ruder in English means to be more rude.

That is exactly what I meant.
That rude guy on the Ship giving loud commands during the Storms is then damaged.
That is why the ship can not sail properly during loud Storms and Winds anymore.

 

[ConjurerDragon]

That is exactly what I meant.
That rude guy on the Ship giving loud commands during the Storms is then damaged.

I think that nowadays such people are rather described as "special" instead of damaged.

That is why the ship can not sail properly during loud Storms and Winds anymore.

Having the winds = Flatulences

 

[Tugboatspotter]

That is exactly what I meant.
That rude guy on the Ship giving loud commands during the Storms is then damaged.
That is why the ship can not sail properly during loud Storms and Winds anymore.

I think that nowadays such people are rather described as "special" instead of damaged.
Having the winds = Flatulences

you guys!

 

[Ramstormp]

@Community:

Could somebody support me and create Promotion Buttons for this?
(Please create a new Buttons Atlas: NegativePromotionsAtlas.dds)


Thanks in advance.

Maybe a bit on the chaotic cartoony side, but will probably work as a decent placeholder for now; and I had a lot if of fun at least

 

[raystuttgart]

Maybe a bit on the chaotic cartoony side, but will probably work as a decent placeholder for now; and I had a lot if of fun at least

Thanks a lot.

A befriended graphical modder (Moandor from our Discord community) is working on this and other Promotion Buttons I might need.
I will send him your files as well and we will check which we will use and maybe also combine / create new ones.

At the moment however I do not need further support for Buttons.
(Work on Buttons is organized / taken care of at the moment.)

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Sorry, it is currently really hard to keep our different communities synchronized ...

 

[raystuttgart]

Just bumping "ACCEPTED" old concepts so they get further up in the queue again.

 

[raystuttgart]

Bumping this again, because I started working on it (again).
(Prototype code already exists in my prototype branch "Crime and Law".)

 

[ConjurerDragon]

If the thread is bumped, could you correct the "wouds" to "wounds" in the title?

 

[raystuttgart]

The feature is now fully implemented.

If a Unit ends combat with less than 50% of its HitPoints, there is a 20% chance that it will suffer a negative effect.
To remove that negative effect, the Unit needs to find a friendly village or city and rest / heal there.

So these effects are not permanent, but they also cannot be healed in enemy lands or generally in open Terrain.
So the attacker actually has some issue, when he is not actually conquering Cities to heal these effects from his troops.

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More than 1 negative effect can be acquired.
(But currently there are just about 2 or 3 effects available for each CombatType.)

So there is no "instant death" when having more than 1 negative effect.
(Once the list of negative effects has run out, simply nothing will be added anymore.)

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The complete System is XML configurable - just like the normal "positive Promotions".
So with a bit of fantasy and motivation more negative Effects can be created.

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Technically any effect the "Positive Promotions" offer can be turned into a "Negative Promotion".
(So there is actually a lot of potential to play with this system if somebody is motivated to do so.)