1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Negotiations with MIA

Discussion in 'Team Doughnut' started by killercane, Sep 9, 2005.

  1. killercane

    killercane Deity

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2004
    Messages:
    3,278
    Location:
    TN
    Emperor Napoleon and some governmental members of MIA are set to talk on Saturday at 10 pm Eastern Standard Time (GMT -5). We need to vote on:

    1) What we are willing to tell them.
    2) What we want out of an alliance. Right of refusals on tech trading to other teams, military assistance, research splitting, I mean everything. What do we want/need to make us stronger?
    3) Perhaps some other things that are suggested in this thread.

    Feel free to attend, though the time kind of sucks for some people. It will be in the Turnchat thread (I have no idea where that is).
     
  2. zyxy

    zyxy Warmongering Fool

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2005
    Messages:
    3,390
    Location:
    The Netherlands
    Is your idea to make deals in this chat, or to reach proposed deals which will then be discussed/voted on in the fora before finalizing?

    1) Definitely not where we are, whether we share an island or not, what we are researching now, who we have met, and where we plan to go with research - on the last thing, you can always say things like "we're still discussing it". It's not even a lie. We can tell them we have writing and pottery, and we can tell them that we want cooperation and friendship. If they really press for information, we could act angry and say something like "Our policies are not determined by you."

    2) We could have some nonagression pact (or whatever it's called). It would involve a peace deal for a fixed term (perhaps 40-50 turns is good for us - we won't be ready for war on anyone anytime sooner anyway), and an agreement not to enter each others borders, except with curraghs on exploration (not blockading). Other kinds of entry is casus belli. We don't really profit from it maybe, although it is some security against a bunch of tough hoplites suddenly dropping on our beaches. I guess that we will not need to bring it up, they probably will.
    I do not want agreements limiting trades with other civs. We simply don't know enough yet, and there's too much advantage to be had there. If they get contacts and use them, tough. It's very difficult to check whether the other side sticks to such an agreement anyway.
    Do not set fixed boundaries between our civs - if they want to, we can say "it's too early to tell what would be fair. We don't have enough map knowledge yet". They may propose we each keep our on island, while we may want their furs.
    Military assistance is tricky. It would only be for defensive wars, of course, but how do you know it's defensive? And it might be against the (spirit of) the rules to make war on a civ you haven't met yet. In any case, the point is moot until we have Map Making (but we don't need to tell them that, of course).
    Research splitting sounds good. We can suggest it, or wait for them to do it, they might like it. We should keep our priorities straight though - we should definitely research the wheel ourselves, not depend on their research there (they might stall, or suddenly refuse to tell).
    EDIT: to me, this still means that techs are traded on equal basis. Also, we somehow have to divide techs but not tell them exactly what we will research. I think that after they unconditionally agree to split research, we can tell them that we plan to go to republic and horse back riding. We can ask them to go to literature and currency - they probably want to get literature anyway.

    3) Possible trade deal right now: BW+IW+WC for writing, or for writing+pottery as "final offer". It's a good deal for both as I argued in the other thread.

    I will probably not attend. I would strong advise that only one person from our side (killercane) does the talking, otherwise we can be played apart. Perhaps open a second chatroom for our team only, where we can discuss among ourselves.
     
  3. killercane

    killercane Deity

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2004
    Messages:
    3,278
    Location:
    TN
    All deals will be voted on. I was hoping to have an idea of things I could use to negotiate with and have a clear picture of what we want.

    I think we want a non aggression pact for as long as they are willing to give us. It will protect our flank from sneak attack, and the longer we have peaceful relations the stronger we will be compared to Greece (Agr=more ICS scientists which I think will outweigh their scientific trait).

    They probably dont know about the furs on their island yet.

    How do we want to divide up research? Top path: Masonry, Math, Currency, COnstruction, MM or CoL, Lit

    Bottom path: CB, myst, poly, wheel, WC if they dont have it, and HBR
    +Republic somehow.

    Edit: I changed the title of this thread since it could show that we know MIA from the forum front page.
     
  4. zyxy

    zyxy Warmongering Fool

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2005
    Messages:
    3,390
    Location:
    The Netherlands
    Ok, that's good to know. Of course it's good to know what we want, otherwise we'll end up doing what Greece wants :).

    Perhaps. It's more specialists vs free techs + cheaper science improvs + more chance of SGL's. Hard to say.
    I don't see us attacking Greece anytime soon, but it's best not to close off the option forever.

    let's hope :D.

    I would prefer not to research masonry or CB yet, as these techs are known to one of the two civs we haven't met. Their price will go down when we do - hopefully soon. Quite possibly the same is true for Math, Myst and perhaps even currency. For the moment these techs can be avoided. Best is if we can persuade greece to do masonry -> math -> currency, perhaps after lit. In the mean time we can go to wheel and republic. As a gesture of goodwill, we can hint at a trade of col for lit.

    Can the other teams see that? :eek: I truly hope not.
     
  5. killercane

    killercane Deity

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2004
    Messages:
    3,278
    Location:
    TN
    Well, of course, but we need to outline primary responsibilities between the two of us. If Persia won't trade masonry or wants writing or something for it, we/they might want to just research it at a discount. CB shouldnt be a problem to get via trade.

    I was thinking Turn 125 was a good number to shoot for, with a caveat that each of was would have to let the other know within 10 turns of ending the deal. I.e., if we clear out our island and decide to attack Greece, we would say at turn 115 that we are not renewing the deal.

    Dont think so, but I was just wanting to be careful.
     
  6. DaveShack

    DaveShack Inventor Retired Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2003
    Messages:
    13,108
    Location:
    Arizona, USA (it's a dry heat)
    You changed the 1st post title, but not the thread title. A mod can probably change the thread title but you would have to just say "change this thread's title" in the needed things and have them refer to the contents of the thread.

    Also, it's not visible from the main page. When you don't have visibility to a subforum, the subforum's last thread does not show in the higher forum's page. It would have to be this way, otherwise everyone can see the mod's latest post in the "staff only" forum, which we know is not visible. ;)
     
  7. killercane

    killercane Deity

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2004
    Messages:
    3,278
    Location:
    TN
    Thanks Dave, good to know.
     
  8. Robi D

    Robi D Minister of (Dis)Order

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2005
    Messages:
    3,066
    Location:
    Adelaide, Australia
    I think from your earlier conversation with the mia killer was along the right lines, and if you continue that way it should be good. When you have reached an agreement then you take it back to us for a vote to make it official, i'm sure they will do the same. As far as giving them location details, i don't think you can do that even if you want to until navigation i think, because we can trade maps before then. Same with communications with other civs, not trades are allowed until printing press(i think). All in all if you just stick to trade of techs and organising tech research you should be fine. Finally as far as the joint reaseach goes, dividing it top half bottom half is fine, as long as the numbers are even and put in a clause that techs will still be traded 1 for 1, so if they fall behind we are not going to give them more then they give us.

    edit- also as part of that clause, if they fall behind too far then we have a right to end the agreement.
     
  9. DaveShack

    DaveShack Inventor Retired Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2003
    Messages:
    13,108
    Location:
    Arizona, USA (it's a dry heat)
    We can't trade "maps" which in the ISDG was interpreted to be images of the land, exact tile counts, etc. If we want to (which I'm not advocating of course) we could talk about general directions, different landmass, etc.

    My opinion is that "map knowledge" even in vague terms is way too sensitive to even hint about. They know our curragh came from the east and departed their lands to the west, and that's all they need to know.

    BTW, MIA has requested a delay on sending the save, possibly until our scheduled negotiations, though obviously they did not reveal why.
     
  10. zyxy

    zyxy Warmongering Fool

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2005
    Messages:
    3,390
    Location:
    The Netherlands
    [Sorry for yet another long rant.]

    The more I think about it, the less I am in favor of trading with Greece. Let me try to analyze the situation.

    Greece has BW, IW and WC to offer. Although we will need those techs eventually, we don't need them now. We are not under threat, so no need for military techs yet. Probably Greece is separated from us by water, so they cannot reach us until Map Making. We haven't seen the others yet - it is not impossible that they will be on continents of their own as well, or too far away to hurt us anytime soon. Our research goals also do not require these techs for the next 50 turns or so.

    As killercane said, we are likely to meet Persia and Celts within 20 turns or so. I think it is very probable that these two have BW and IW, as it enables their UU (Persia surely has BW). That means that the value of these techs will drop considerably as we meet these guys.

    We have writing and pottery to offer. I am convinced that writing is still a monopoly. It is likely to remain a monopoly for quite some time - if I were Persia I would research Math and Currency before Writing. Celts would perhaps do Myst -> Poly to get some monopolies as well. Pottery is cheap but enables granaries, very useful early on, but I don't think Greece will pay a premium for this tech and trade it for BW or WC.

    Now let's look at Greece. Most important observation is that their research has nowhere to go! The only nonmonopoly tech that they can research is the Wheel - and they would do us a great favor by researching that. They desperately need writing to get access to the important stuff - republic, map making, literature. In particular Literature will give them cheap libs and the opportunity to surge ahead. If they don't get writing, they will have to either shut off research, or help us by researching something like Masonry or CB. (Even if they do writing, they are helping us by throwing money away).

    If we trade writing to Greece, then whoever finds the other civs first can make a splash. If we don't, then we are the ones to make a splash. My vision is that we should try to use writing, col and philo to trade for the other AA techs, and use republic to trade for the free MA techs of Greece and Persia (and perhaps to Celts for an alliance). The only drawbacks would be that
    • Greece might decide to research writing, and might find the other two civs first. Then we may end up getting nothing for writing. Still, philo and col should give us some trading power, so not all is lost in that case. I think it will be at least 15 turns before Greece gets writing (it costs 204 gold for them), so this should be a rather minimal risk.
    • Greece won't like us so much for not trading. Of course we don't say that we don't want to trade. We can for a while stall them, by taking a long time for forum discussion and polling, pretend we have various factions holding each other in deadlock, and by making offers unacceptable to them - killercane's about them giving us their free MA tech in exchange for writing is a good one.
      We can even use this to our advantage, for example saying that some of our citizens are entertaining a "writing for masonry and warrior code" deal - perhaps it would steer them in their research :).
      Still, relations could turn sour, and this IMO is the worst drawback in the long run. We can try to prevent it by proposing deals involving pottery but not writing - still stalling to the max of course. Hopefully we can stall until we meet the other guys.
     
  11. admiral-bell

    admiral-bell Chronic Lurker

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2005
    Messages:
    730
    good plan zyxy
     
  12. killercane

    killercane Deity

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2004
    Messages:
    3,278
    Location:
    TN
    I have these comments so far to work off of:

    They want to exchange research paths and want to know what we have beyond writing. I am inclined to tell them in exchange for information from them and to solidify a relationship with them. They surely realize we have taken the philo route.
    -Do we want a nonaggression pact?
    -Do we want to trade wines for ivory straight up?
    -Do we want to trade for their MA tech for sure?
    -I dont really want to get involved in trading any map knowledge (theres a fine line between legal and nonlegal in this area), and judging from Dave's and others' comments Im not going to put that on the table. If they really press us and can give something else up for it, I'll put that to a vote.

    They've stopped and wanted time for something, so it seems they are eager to deal. And the beauty is that we dont have to. Hopefully we can use that to our advantage.
     
  13. zyxy

    zyxy Warmongering Fool

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2005
    Messages:
    3,390
    Location:
    The Netherlands
    I find that a bit of a risk. If you want to propose your republic plan, then is it smart if they know that we are already working on philo? I really don't know, I guess I am more suspicious than you are...

    yes, why not. 50 turns or so seems fine. Or ask them what term they would like.
    do we have two wines? I must have missed that. [EDIT: yes we do, but still outside our borders.] Anyway, we cannot trade yet - there is no connection. For the far future, why not. We do not know whether a harbor would be needed, and it is better not to tell them yet (can always say that a road would be very long and a harbor would be easiest).
    for republic? pls see my reply in the other thread.
    we're not allowed to. They can more or less guess where we live, anyway.

    Why not ask them why they stopped? Just as smalltalk. Is it in our honor?
     
  14. killercane

    killercane Deity

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2004
    Messages:
    3,278
    Location:
    TN
    These negotiations crack me up. I'll ask Emp Napoleon for permission to be sure that I can post them.
     
  15. Robi D

    Robi D Minister of (Dis)Order

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2005
    Messages:
    3,066
    Location:
    Adelaide, Australia
    Well im still in favour of some trade, but maybe thats just my peaceful nature. Still we are in the box seat in the negotiations, so i don't think we should rush into any deals. If we can organise a co-op on research, we can still try for some tech swaps and then hold talks in the future about other possiblities, like resources ect.
     
  16. DaveShack

    DaveShack Inventor Retired Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2003
    Messages:
    13,108
    Location:
    Arizona, USA (it's a dry heat)
    I'm curious about something, where is this chat being held? I can't find info on it anywhere...
     
  17. killercane

    killercane Deity

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2004
    Messages:
    3,278
    Location:
    TN
    Heres the convo, for what its worth. This is the longest post ever BTW. Im tired and hitting the bed but I'll throw out some thoughts tomorrow. We had a mixup on the time and place of the chat (my fault) but the whole thing didnt go anywhere. I apologize for posting all of this, but I would rather post it all and no one read it then have something missed by not posting it.

    casey j says:
    the way we see it is we are not looking for a fight with you, and would rather work together against the other two
    Emp. Napoleon says:
    something liek that
    Emp. Napoleon says:
    (if you wanna invote your goverment, I don't mind)
    casey j says:
    I put up a message, no one is attending. They put forth their thoughts and wishes, and if we can get an agreement together we'll vote and get it done. I have a pretty good feel for what everyone wants though so voting shouldnt be an issue (just in case you need to move on something right away, since the save is delayed for I assume this meeting)
    Emp. Napoleon says:
    well, we were in the market for techs
    casey j says:
    alright you want writing and thats all?
    Emp. Napoleon says:
    well, pretty much any techs, but writing is one of them
    casey j says:
    the other one is pottery that you are after? dont have that settler factory running just yet?
    Emp. Napoleon says:
    well, pottery is another possiblity
    casey j says:
    the way we figure it is, writing is pretty damn expensive, and putting that out there for only IW, bronze, and warrior code is probably not going to happen. We dont want any 2 fers with other civs and want to keep either everyone backward or everyone outside of a Greco-Iro alliance backward
    casey j says:
    but we are always willing to listen to ideas
    casey j says:
    I figure we can be the dominant two powers in the game if we want to be
    Emp. Napoleon says:

    2 fers?
    casey j says:
    2 fer: say you get writing and know Persia who knows Math, and you trade writing for math. You would get 2 techs for one tech because as the middleman because we dont know persia
    Emp. Napoleon says:
    I see
    Emp. Napoleon says:
    but once we both know Persia, let's say, we can set up some things to benifet the two of us
    casey j says:
    Yes
    Emp. Napoleon says:
    how about IW and Wheel for Writing
    casey j says:
    Probably not. Wheel is naturally important to us, but we can get it quickly via research. Iron is a priority for every civ but us.
    Emp. Napoleon says:
    well tech cost wise you will make out
    Emp. Napoleon says:
    and do you already have IW?
    casey j says:
    certainly we would, but writing opens up a lot of possibilities
    casey j says:
    for you
    Emp. Napoleon says:
    and would bring much trust to our nations
    casey j says:
    Trust between our nations would begin with a pact outlining a tech agreement.
    casey j says:
    Our information indicates we could make a formidable alliance. Would you be willing to sign a non-aggression pact spanning to turn 100 or so?
    Emp. Napoleon says:
    well, we are not that interested in a full on ulta-tech alliance, but a non agression pact could be considered
    Emp. Napoleon says:
    right now, we just wanna trade techs/money for techs/money
    Emp. Napoleon says:
    how about this: V - Non-Agression Agreement
    Neither nation shall attack any unit of the other nation.

    Neither nation shall pillage the improvements of the other without prior
    approval.

    Neither nation shall intentionally block the movement of the other.
    Emp. Napoleon says:
    that's from an old APO-CFC treaty back in MSDG
    casey j says:
    So the offer on the table is BW, IW, Warrior Code, and the Wheel for Writing?
    Emp. Napoleon says:
    o no
    casey j says:
    We do have a monopoly on writing
    Emp. Napoleon says:
    I don't know
    Emp. Napoleon says:
    wheel and IW for writing, e may be able to toss in some gold
    casey j says:
    how much
    Emp. Napoleon says:
    a lump sum, let's say 10
    Emp. Napoleon says:
    but I havent approved this with my goverment yet, so we are jsut talking right now
    casey j says:
    absolutely this is just talking to get a feel for each other. We have writing at monopoly. That opens up Mapmaking, CoL, Philo, Lit, and ultimately Republic. Its a crucial tech that the others cant research right away. We are intent on keeping it close to our vest.
    casey j says:
    but an offer we cant refuse? well I have a good feel for what we would take for it. We really dont want to drop a warrior stack by your hoplite defended cities to give you a despotic golden age
    casey j says:
    we would rather work together
    Emp. Napoleon says:
    o yes, I think we would too
    Emp. Napoleon says:
    are you slinging?
    casey j says:
    well now thats a loaded question. I'm allowed to give information in exchange for information.
    Emp. Napoleon says:
    ok, as of now, we are not
    casey j says:
    we realize that, since you just got warrior code recently
    casey j says:
    now if we could work up a republic plan that woudl benefit both of us, that would be great
    casey j says:
    your plans do include a republican government rather than a monarchy correct?
    Emp. Napoleon says:
    I cant say, no one from my goverment is on, but let's assume so for now
    casey j says:
    ok what would be the quickest way for both of us to get there?
    casey j says:
    assuming we have a tech agreement
    Emp. Napoleon says:
    well, I don't think we have alpha yet, but we will start reserching in about 4 turns
    Emp. Napoleon says:
    help in that would be good, and in exchange we could give IW or something else
    casey j says:
    you are the Greeks correct?
    Emp. Napoleon says:
    yes
    casey j says:
    you start with alphabet
    casey j says:
    do you mean writing?
    Emp. Napoleon says:
    err sorry
    Emp. Napoleon says:
    forget about that, so we would need help on writing
    Emp. Napoleon says:
    and you philosophy and us Code o' laws
    casey j says:
    so you're doing the wheel right now?
    casey j says:
    If we were to give you writing for all the other stuff, how soon could you have Code of laws?
    Emp. Napoleon says:
    we are finishing up IW
    casey j says:
    so finish up Iron, okay, and then you would do Code of Laws?
    Emp. Napoleon says:
    possibly, but liek I said, I would need to check with my goverment
    casey j says:
    of course, and I with mine.
    casey j says:
    do you still only have the two cities? I havent checked in the last couple of turns.
    Emp. Napoleon says:
    nor have I, I just do diplomancy
    casey j says:
    We just dont want to be waiting forever for you to do CoL (300 beakers). If you only have the two cities, it might take you 25-30 turns.
    Emp. Napoleon says:
    yes I see
    Emp. Napoleon says:

    well, I can't say how lng it will take
    casey j says:
    Its a tough call. You will have the wheel, warrior code, and iron working in 4 turns. I might be able to sell my government on writing for your MA tech, but without a settler factory in your capital and good research speed I dont know if doing the writing deal makes sense.
    Emp. Napoleon says:
    doesn't make sence?
    casey j says:
    for us, I mean.
    Emp. Napoleon says:
    ok
    Emp. Napoleon says:
    well, I know philio is cheaper
    Emp. Napoleon says:
    we could do that, and then you do CoL, but I need to check with my goverment how long it would take
    casey j says:
    how would we know, if we were to do that, that you wouldnt take a free mapmaking and land a galley of hoplites to pillage our poor little improvements?
    Emp. Napoleon says:
    fre mapmaking?
    casey j says:
    philo gives you a free technology.
    Emp. Napoleon says:
    mind if I invite a team member
    casey j says:
    sure go ahead
    Emp. Napoleon says:
    ok, he might join us in a few min
    casey j says:
    **** texas those bastards. sorry for my french.
    Emp. Napoleon says:
    anyways, we could use that tech for CoL, then ge Republic
    Emp. Napoleon says:
    lol
    casey j says:
    what tech, philosophy?
    Emp. Napoleon says:
    we get that, and use taht on CoL, and you go for someting else
    Emp. Napoleon says:
    with CoL we get republic
    Emp. Napoleon says:
    and chare
    Emp. Napoleon says:
    share
    casey j says:
    well we may have CoL done, and would want to take republic for free for ourselves. we are trying to decide if we want you as research partners or not. If so, we would want you to have republic as soon as possible for the increased science potential. Hence we are looking at a deal. Plans are highly susceptible to change right now; what is your beaker per turn rate?
    Emp. Napoleon says:
    I can't say, I don't know; some of my goverment officals may come on tonight, I can ask them then
    casey j says:
    alright.

    Kentharu has been added to the conversation.

    casey j says:
    hello
    Kentharu says:
    hello, ill just be observing
    casey j says:
    sure no problem. Emperor, do you mind if I post our discussion so far for my team to keep them up to speed?
    Emp. Napoleon says:
    ok so it looks like we wont get writing then for IW & the wheel?
    casey j says:
    probably not
    casey j says:
    especially if you dont have IW just yet
    Emp. Napoleon says:
    well, we will get it in 4 turns, we will be jsut about done by the time the deal is ratified on your side, and oked on mine
    casey j says:
    I really doubt it, but of course I can take that back to my team. I think they would really want a better deal though, which would encompass either a no trade clause in regards to writing, adding in warrior code to better the deal, or an agreement to give us your free MA tech.
    Emp. Napoleon says:
    you mean that we wil not trade writing?
    casey j says:
    Yes, you cant trade writing to the Persians or the Celts
    casey j says:
    is what that would mean
    Emp. Napoleon says:
    we can talk about that too
    Emp. Napoleon says:
    but why do you want to limit it?
    casey j says:
    so that any neighbors we might have would be as backward as possible
    Emp. Napoleon says:
    good idea
    casey j says:
    and more susceptible to being destroyed by our troops
    Emp. Napoleon says:
    I have wonderful news, I've jsut been informed that we already have IW, so we could ship that out soon
    casey j says:
    so what is your offer?
    Emp. Napoleon says:
    one moment
    casey j says:
    sure. do you mind if I post this discussion and keep my team apprised of the situation?
    Emp. Napoleon says:
    o yes, you may
    Emp. Napoleon says:
    I'll be doing the same thing at the end
    casey j says:
    alrighty
    Emp. Napoleon says:
    ok
    Emp. Napoleon says:
    here is the deal, do you have Bronze working?
    casey j says:

    what is the deal?
    Emp. Napoleon says:
    first I need to know if you have BW?

    Kentharu has left the conversation.

    Emp. Napoleon says:
    becuase we can offer it too you
    casey j says:
    we dont have bronze working
    Emp. Napoleon says:
    BW & IW
    casey j says:
    Nope not going to happen.
    Emp. Napoleon says:
    IW would get you Iron on the map you know
    casey j says:
    Yes it would.
    Emp. Napoleon says:
    ok, well I'll stop haggling you there
    Emp. Napoleon says:
    let's see, BW, WC, CB, for WRiting
    casey j says:
    you have ceremonial burial right now?
    Emp. Napoleon says:
    yes
    casey j says:
    and you have the wheel as well or is it due in 4 turns?
    casey j says:

    naturally we would want the wheel rather than CB
    Emp. Napoleon says:
    that's due in about 4 turns
    Emp. Napoleon says:
    could be more or less, about that though
    Emp. Napoleon says:
    BW and Wheel in 4 turns
    Emp. Napoleon says:
    then give us writing
    casey j says:
    Not going to happen.
    Emp. Napoleon says:
    ok, what do you want for writing
    casey j says:
    BW, iron working, Wheel, Warrior code, and your free MA tech. My team would do that. Anything less and probably not, though I could try to convince them.
    casey j says:
    if we signed some sort of agreement on techs
    Emp. Napoleon says:
    that is a lot, and I must say we probally will go for that, but I will bring that back anyways
    Emp. Napoleon says:
    how about pottery, you have that right?
    casey j says:
    yes, for sale
    Emp. Napoleon says:
    waht are you in the market for i that
    casey j says:
    well the Celts have pottery, are you not wanting to pick that up from them?
    Emp. Napoleon says:
    I can't answer questions about other civs, I only work with you guys and do not have athority. But what do you want for Potterry
    casey j says:
    well you obviously know the Celts right?
    casey j says:
    We could do pottery for Iron working and the Wheel
    Emp. Napoleon says:
    now that is way too much
    casey j says:
    that would probably allow you to trade for mysticism from the Celts and come out ahead of us
    Emp. Napoleon says:
    do they have it?
    Emp. Napoleon says:
    mysticism?
    casey j says:
    I dont know, but it would make sense for them to research it since they would have a monopoly.
    Emp. Napoleon says:
    ok, so first you want a promise from us not to trade techs with other teams, or just the ones we get from you?
    casey j says:
    just the ones you get from us.
    casey j says:
    Do you know Persia or the Celts?
    Emp. Napoleon says:
    I can't say, I do not have athority, I hope you understand
    casey j says:
    we know you know one of them
    Emp. Napoleon says:
    like I said, I do not ahve the athority to speak about that, you will need to talk to goverment officals
    casey j says:
    ok
    Emp. Napoleon says:
    so first you want a promise from us taht we will not trade techs from you guys to other teams?
    casey j says:
    Yes is that going to work on your end?
    Emp. Napoleon says:
    I can ask, and will we recive the same agreement with you guys
    casey j says:
    yes, if we do it.
    casey j says:
    but like I said, writing is expensive.
    Emp. Napoleon says:
    ok, we will get that first, in the meantime we will discuss your offer with writing if we approve of the no trade tech agreement
    Emp. Napoleon says:
    and we will consider your offer for pottery (BW&Wheel)
    casey j says:
    The original offer was iron working and the wheel for pottery. But if the counteroffer is Bronze and wheel for pottery, we will consider that.
    Emp. Napoleon says:
    well, you need BW before IW
    casey j says:
    Yes you do. Bronze and CB are the cheapest techs in the game.
    Emp. Napoleon says:
    actually Potery and CB are that's why I am so hesitant on how much you want for Potteryu
    casey j says:
    Pottery is an important tech. Since you know the Celts, why do you want pottery so bad?
    casey j says:
    if you can get it from them
    Emp. Napoleon says:
    yes, it is important I guss, more than value
    Emp. Napoleon says:
    but I will get that no tech thing going on in our forums, and the deal on Writing (BW, IW, WHeel, WC, and Free MA tech) and Pottery (BW and Wheel)
    casey j says:
    alright sounds good
    casey j says:
    I hope we can come to some sort of deal
    Emp. Napoleon says:
    yes, sorry for taking this chat so long
    Emp. Napoleon says:
    I hope I didn't waste your time
    casey j says:
    no problem
    Emp. Napoleon says:
    I'm a little rusty from the ISDG
    Emp. Napoleon says:
    so you will be our pernament ambassador?
    casey j says:
    No probably not. We have elections due pretty soon. But I will be around to spew my somewhat on topic thoughts.
    Emp. Napoleon says:
    elections for ambassador, or the entire team?
    casey j says:
    for ambassador and some other posts, turnplayer, internal affairs guy, that kind of thing
     
  18. Nobody

    Nobody Gangster

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2001
    Messages:
    5,454
    Location:
    Wellington New Zealand
    It seems they got more infomation out of us than we did from them, but they let there knowing the celts out the bag. That big writing for everything deal is pretty sweet especially if they had a no trade clause. but how would we police that?
     
  19. DaveShack

    DaveShack Inventor Retired Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2003
    Messages:
    13,108
    Location:
    Arizona, USA (it's a dry heat)
    I'm not so sure that they know the Celts -- but if they do and we can get something for pottery it would be a good deal for us.

    Or this might be an attempt at misinformation...
     
  20. zyxy

    zyxy Warmongering Fool

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2005
    Messages:
    3,390
    Location:
    The Netherlands
    Thanks for the log! I actually did read it, and indeed, it's going nowhere. I don't think you gave important info away, except perhaps that you know the game better than he does :). Here's what I digest from it:

    Their ambassador doesn't know what techs they have. He doesn't know the difference between alpha and writing. He doesn't know that we do not have BW, which he could easily have learnt from the save. He is lying on every point that we can check (about their research in particular). Either he is ignorant, or he is trying to decieve us. If he really wants to "bring much trust to our nations" then he should be honest with us, not ask for freebies.

    And how can they offer the wheel? They don't have it, unless they just traded for it. But would Celts have researched the wheel? Not likely, they have better options than that. It is possible that they got CB from Celts. Maybe the Greeks have already done IW before WC, and are now doing the wheel. Anyway, we'll learn what they have next time the save comes around.

    It's good to know that they probably found the Celts - unless his statement about CB was another lie/mistake. [EDIT: I rechecked. They have CB actually.] So probably Greeks have a curragh up north. Next time we get the save we can check all the stories about the techs they have. If they suddenly have another tech, then they know someone.

    I am still wondering why they kept the save. Our Dave tried to hold the save twice because of diplo matters and was told by the gamemasters to move on. So would the Greeks have been allowed to hold the save for this conversation? Anyway, the save was sent on shortly after you talked.
     

Share This Page