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Nerfs and boosts to pre-Gods & Kings civs (directly or indirectly)

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by ShahJahanII, Jul 19, 2012.

  1. ShahJahanII

    ShahJahanII Homesick Alien

    Jul 19, 2011
    Austin, Texas
    Just a few thoughts on the subject:

    The Songhai's Unique Unit lacks the penalty for attacking cities from the Knights they replace. Although they are now cheaper, the fact that cities are much stronger and armies need siege units to soften them up means that the Mandekalu Cavalry have been seriously nerfed.

    Here's one a lot of people have been talking about.
    1. Great Scientists have been nerfed overall. An obvious nerf to Babylon's UA, their strongest component. Although, they will do better at early-game research since academies have been boosted slightly.
    2.The Bowmen are now obsolete a lot quicker. While they used to be a great offensive unit, they aren't that much better since any civ needs only to get to Construction as fast as possible for Composite Bowmen.
    3.The Walls of Babylon now provide extra HP to the city, a boost that is probably a lot more useful on higher difficulty levels.

    The Mohawk Warriors now have a 33% combat bonus in Forests and Jungles.

    Ballistae (as well as all catapults) no longer require iron and are much more useful overall.

    Population Growth doesn't seem as powerful as before since unhappiness is easier to deal with.

    1.One of the biggest, Catapults retain the "200% Ranged Strength vs. Cities" promotion when upgraded to Hwachas, making them much stronger than regular trebuchets.
    2. Since you can now upgrade Triremes to Turtle Ships, which can then be upgraded to Ironclads (that can now enter oceans), they are now much more useful throughout the game.

    America, Spain, the Ottomans, France:
    Swords now upgrade to Musketmen, meaning you no longer have to build Minutemen, Tercios, Janissaries, and Musketeers.

    1. Already mentioned above.
    2. Pikemen now upgrade to Lancers, so you don't have to build Spiahi.
    3. Naval units are much more useful, so the discount on them is always appreciated.
    4. Barbary Corsairs now gives the Prize Ships promotion to all melee ships, which can double the size of your navy in some games.

    1.Longbowmen upgrade to 2-Range Gatling Guns. Very useful.
    2. Ships of the Line are more useful.
    3. An extra spy is nothing to scoff at.

    Influence is gained a lot easier via quests. Using Greece's ability with Patronage unlocked on a city-state following your religion, you can make it so your influence never drops (unless, of course, a spy tampers with it).

    This wasn't meant to be a full guide, just some things I noticed. So please share your thoughts and help add on to this list. :goodjob:
  2. OmniPotent42

    OmniPotent42 King

    Jun 25, 2012
    The one thing I've noticed is pre-G&K if you made peace with an enemy's allied city-state it would stay angry, but then slowly recover, making Greece's ability a lot more useful, because in addition to diminishing at 50% rate they can recover at twice the normal rate. However now once you make peace they go right back to neutral, making Greece's ability a little less amazing.
  3. Dogmouth

    Dogmouth King

    Mar 19, 2012
    Inca: Terraces now give +1 food at civil service (water) or fertilizer (no water). This is huge. This might have been a pre-G&K patch that I was unaware of, but I'm pretty sure this wasn't true in vanilla.

    Egypt and Arabia: Desert tiles are now quite workable due to petra and desert folklore. Their starting biases went from :sad: to :egypt:

    Russia: Russia's tundra starts are still not awesome, but the tundra dance (or whatever it's called) would be good in a heavy tundra-hill environment.

    Spain: The new religious natural wonders seem to result in more natural wonders per game (can anyone confirm?).
  4. OmniPotent42

    OmniPotent42 King

    Jun 25, 2012
    I don't know about you guys, but I always seem to spawn pretty close to a religious Natural Wonder, even w/out being Spain. It's nice to have the faith from working a tile instead of using buildings or Pantheon beliefs.
  5. Harv72b

    Harv72b Prince

    Oct 29, 2005
    I think you'd be hard-pressed to only double the size of your navy in any game. ;)
  6. Lance of Llanwy

    Lance of Llanwy King

    Mar 10, 2006
    Jaguars now heal 25 HP from kills, instead of (the equivalent of) 20 as before. Pretty insignificant, but I guess there are edge cases where that could save a unit.

    The fact that it is easier to get your hands on more of those :c5happy: faces means it is also a touch easier to exploit Persia's UA. Religion(if you can found one) and mercantile city-states are the biggest potential boons here.
  7. xxhe

    xxhe Prince

    Mar 10, 2008
    The Korea promotion one should be a BUG. It's against what Hwacha's supposed to do.
  8. PhilBowles

    PhilBowles Deity

    Nov 20, 2011
    Relatively speaking, the fact that the Mandelaku hasn't been updated in line with the addition of the Conquistador (which also lacks the city attack penalty and has the same stats, but has several other boosts as well) means it's been "seriously nerfed" - while I wouldn't have expected them to update it in the Spain/Inca DLC, they should have done in G&K.

    The MP Mosque is no longer a superior culture generator to the temple it replaces - it's just a temple with no upkeep cost. So this too is a slight nerf.

    The UA is still very strong, and war canoes make Songhai units very hard to kill at sea (I deliberately played Songhai on an archipelago map to test this). On balance the UA as a whole has been buffed in the context of broader changes to the game - relatively speaking Askia is even stronger than before economically in the early game, since he gets his big barbarian goldrush at a game stage where gold is more difficult for most civs to come by.

    can't be counted as a buff since it's a bug - as made clear by the fact that the Civilopedia entry does not include this bonus despite otherwise updating the stats.

    Melee ship rules and turtles' very high strength for their era also makes them very strong at attacking coastal cities they can reach.

    - Golden ages now boost culture
    - Now pikes are more useful, spamming early Immortals transitions better into the later game.
    - Golden ages are harder to come by via GPs, but tend to be easier via happiness

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