[R&F] Netherlands First Look

[agonistes]

I guess the thread is too long to read
This embarked builder can clearly traverse the polder, see the white lines. The polder also has a small water channel. I doubt you will be able to make a land bridge with them.
View attachment 482832

No, I had read your post. I just don't buy it at this time.

1) No, I don't see any white lines. I really don't. Hmmmm.
2) Even if I saw them, I don't regard that as definitive. I need video of a ship moving through one. Sorry Vic.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

No, I had read your post. I just don't buy it at this time.

1) No, I don't see any white lines. I really don't. Hmmmm.
2) Even if I saw them, I don't regard that as definitive. I need video of a ship moving through one. Sorry Vic.

If the Polder were a land tile, the worker would not be able to get to the water on the other side in the same turn. It would have to disembark and re-embark.

 

[Hakan-i Cihan]

Unless a polder, as a land tile, counts as 'flat land.'

I think the third adjacent piece of flat land is the polder.

Both of you have a point. But then I am curious about the next image, 2 seconds later at 1:14 in the first look. The player is advised to build fish farms for the tiles marked with red, while they have enough adjacent coastline including polder tiles. The player is advised to build a polder in tile marked with green however.

 

[UWHabs]

The rules may also be something like "3 land tiles, of which at least one needs to be flat".

You can also see in that last screenshot pretty clearly that the worker on the polder is embarked (the boat sitting in the tulip fields), so I think we'll just have to deal with battleships floating through the fields.

 

[Josephias]

I didn't know they had that feature, but this looks ridicilous.

I agree it was not well performed (already admitted is risky to ask the art department to "invent", and Abe was one of the most "funny looking ones"), but I feel I need to defend there were some good ones (images under spoiler). Elizabeth going from Roman Matron to herself, to Victorian Lady to "Margaret Tatcher - like", I think was a good design. As well as Bismark cosplaying as a Goth chieftain. I liked too Industrial Pachacuti (Inca) or Smoke Jaguar, dressed with what we would now call a "traditional" attire of their region. Modern era ones were mostly always evolving to "guys (gals) in suit" (except the Joane of Arc fiasco), which may seem unoriginal, but in part it reflects as well that as ages advance, all the world is becoming more similar.
In general i think it worked better with "long-lived" civilizations where you can really take their actual cloth styles trough the ages (or at least the cloth styles in their region, if they do not exist now), and apply them to the leader, and is much worse when you can't follow this pattern (America), or deviate from it (France a la sergeant o'neil instead of using a "modern france" look).

Spoiler :

Back on topic, I like the last explanation about polders (three land tiles, at least one flat), and I don't see them converting to land (you will be providing a potentially strong terraforming ability to just one civ, plus as unrealistic it may be battleships fighting in a tulip field, i think we should underestand the polder does not cover the full tile area)

 

[King Rad]

Am I the only one around here that thinks it just fits a country that mostly consists of a delta?

I'm not sure if you misunderstood my post because we both seem to be saying the same thing. The river adjacency bonus makes sense for this civ. I was questioning why some seem to think otherwise and/or that it's a weak bonus, since it solves the problem of having to try to find deltas surrounded by mountains.

 

[HEF]

So far, every 'First Look' has had me smilin' and smilin'.

This 'First Look' is no different. I'm just amazed by the character designs & animations, in this example, Queen Wilhemina's parasol and her chapeau.

Nice.
Really, really nice.

 

[Inlex]

I guess the thread is too long to read
This embarked builder can clearly traverse the polder, see the white lines. The polder also has a small water channel. I doubt you will be able to make a land bridge with them.
View attachment 482832

There is a chance that some of the screens were taken from earlier versions before they finalized all the movement rules, but I would agree, the most likely case is that they're still water tiles.

If this turns out to be the case, I will be completely bummed out by the flavor fail. The entire point of the polders were to create more habitable and arable LAND.

 

[Josephias]

S

If this turns out to be the case, I will be completely bummed out by the flavor fail. The entire point of the polders were to create more habitable and arable LAND.

And that is the reson they provide the food and housing benefits of a farm, in water (+ bonus production).

Other thing is to assume the polder covers the full water hex. Graphically, it will do. Realistically, it would be a very, very big polder.

 

[Leyrann]

I'm not sure if you misunderstood my post because we both seem to be saying the same thing. The river adjacency bonus makes sense for this civ. I was questioning why some seem to think otherwise and/or that it's a weak bonus, since it solves the problem of having to try to find deltas surrounded by mountains.

You're giving a gameplay reason, I'm giving a flavour reason.

 

[Synth]

I wish they were made more of an economic powerhouse instead of getting culture bonuses. We don't have any civ as geared towards economy as the Netherlands and Portugal were on Civ V, and those were really fun to play.

 

[Guandao]

So, I'm assuming the next livestream would have Netherlands?

 

[Tech Osen]

S


And that is the reson they provide the food and housing benefits of a farm, in water (+ bonus production).

Other thing is to assume the polder covers the full water hex. Graphically, it will do. Realistically, it would be a very, very big polder.

Well, Flevoland is pretty big, it's a seperate province even.

 

[Kimiimaro]

So, I'm assuming the next livestream would have Netherlands?

I think they said it at the end of the livestream.

 

[Josephias]

Well, Flevoland is pretty big, it's a seperate province even.

View attachment 482951

Good try!

I'm lazy to do the math myself, so I'll choose some earlier calculations (Civ V, but we can assume similar ones for Civ VI). Both in that thread and on others, It seems a common convention on hex size is 10,000 square km.

Flevoland area is 2,412 square km. (of wich 1,419 km2 are land, according to wikipedia). Taking nevertheless the full area, this means we can fit 4 flevolands in a Civ hex. (or, considering the inverse, if we build a "flevoland" polder, we still have 3/4 of the "hex" free for the warships to fight themselves without spoiling the tulips.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

Good try!

I'm lazy to do the math myself, so I'll choose some earlier calculations (Civ V, but we can assume similar ones for Civ VI). Both in that thread and on others, It seems a common convention on hex size is 10,000 square km.

Flevoland area is 2,412 square km. (of wich 1,419 km2 are land, according to wikipedia). Taking nevertheless the full area, this means we can fit 4 flevolands in a Civ hex. (or, considering the inverse, if we build a "flevoland" polder, we still have 3/4 of the "hex" free for the warships to fight themselves without spoiling the tulips.

I don't think you can directly correlate. How many 10000 sq km "Commercial Districts" do you know?

 

[KayAU]

I don't think you can directly correlate. How many 10000 sq km "Commercial Districts" do you know?

And how many archers could hit targets 215 km away?

 

[Kimiimaro]

And how many archers could hit targets 215 km away?

Forget archers, and tell me how many slingers could do that.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

Forget archers, and tell me how many slingers could do that.

And by that scale the entire dutch "civilization" would be ~4 hex large.

 

[CPWimmer]

Civ V, but we can assume similar ones for Civ VI

I think with the way districts and wonders now take up entire hexes, this statement about Civ V and Civ VI hex size is untrue.