Netherlands: Pay per mile you drive.

[fugazi]

http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2009/11/kilometer_tax_info_will_be_use.php

Kilometer tax info will be used by state

Wednesday 18 November 2009

Information stored in the kilometer tax meters every driver must have in 2012 will be used by government investigators if the 'security of the state' is at risk, the Telegraaf claims on Wednesday.

Police and security service investigators will also be able to access the information in the 'prevention, detection and pursuit of criminal acts', the paper says.

The information comes from 'an explanation of the draft legislation', the paper says, without giving sources.

On Friday ministers gave the green light to the the implementation of the kilometer tax for all drivers. Each car on the roads will be fitted with a GPS device which will use satellites to monitor where and when the car is driven and send the information to a central billing point.

The ministry said on Friday the information collected about motoring habits would be 'legally and technically' protected and would not be accessible to other government agencies.

Big Brother

'It is a real Big Brother is watching you story,' said Liberal MP Charlie Aptrots in the Telegraaf.

But ChristenUnie MP Ernst Cramer said the fuss about privacy is exaggerated. '[Information stored on] my supermarket bonus card and mobile phone mean my life is already out in the open,' he said.

The Telegraaf has mounted a strong campaign against the kilometer tax since last week.

© DutchNews.nl

The general premise is that every car will get a meter onboard that sends out signals to machines alongside the roads to register every mile they drive and billing you for it. Using the speedways during heavy traffic hours will cost you substantially more. This is to reduce traffic and fight traffic jams.

The government insists that this system will replace the current yearly tax you pay for owning a car and the tax you pay 'for buying a new car'. Mind you, not the tax on the new car itself but the act of buying a new one. They promise citizens that they'll end up spending less money and that the government will pay for these machines. It won't cost you 'anything'. The flipside is that already they intend on adding a CO2 emission tax and the local government will be adding a province citizen tax to make up for the losses. Also the heavy traffic tariffs haven't been used for the calculations to check whether you'll be paying less on a yearly basis as a regular driver.

On top of that they'll be storing all this information and will be actively using it to 'fight crime and terrorism'.

So how do you like Holland now, where the government cares about your privacy and safety? Oh, and be sure to keep a hand on your wallet at all times while you're here.

 

[Riffraff]

Well the enviromental aspect is nice and everything, but in total this is simply a horrible idea...

 

[fugazi]

The government seems to love it. They sell the idea by adding flawed reports, keeping out important bits and pieces and somehow the media doesn't pick up on any of it and goes along with the government, selling their plans to the populace.

I don't mind paying taxes, I don't mind having to give the police my alibi when needed and I don't mind fighting pollution but this is nothing more than another government cashcow which they'll also be using to get another Big Brother project live. The Netherlands had more phonetaps out before 9/11 than any other country and the government already tracks down everything you do. Your movement by public transport is saved for 7 years and since you need a pass bound to your person to travel by public transport, there's no way of escaping this.

It's disturbing.

 

[El_Machinae]

I don't like the intrusion in private lives.

Ostensibly, you already pay extra to drive in rush-hour conditions, because your mileage is so much lower.
I can see an need for alternate revenue for roads, since charging a tax on gasoline might not make the most sense if people are going to be reducing the gasoline consumption per tonne of vehicle (i.e., an electric car).

I think road tolls for driving during rush hour make more sense.

 

[Moggy]

These schemes are purely to spy on people and have nothing to do with the environment. If they wanted a tax system that punished people for the amount they drive, then they can do so very easily (and cheaply!) by just adding money onto the cost of fuel. If £1 gets added to a litre of petrol then it will cost me more money the further I drive. Simples.

 

[fugazi]

The Netherlands already know the highest prices in fuel. They added a flat 25 cents tax on fuel in 1991 to fix the government budget, to give you an idea of the extend of taxing on fuel here.

 

[amadeus]

What happens when people drive in from neighboring EU countries? Surely the Dutch authorities can't expect to slap a GPS system on every car that comes in and out of the country.

 

[Riffraff]

The Netherlands already know the highest prices in fuel. They added a flat 25 cents tax on fuel in 1991 to fix the government budget, to give you an idea of the extend of taxing on fuel here.

Well where is the problem with that? Speeds up the process of ending dependancy of fossile fuels, with a positive effect on enviroment and budget.

 

[fugazi]

They haven't answered that yet, but one idea is to simply sell stickers for cars who spend more than a week in Holland. Whether that week is 'over a year', actually seven days in a row or a few weeks I don't know.

What I do know is that the government will happily consume more of your privacy for their taxation benefits. Oh and of course it helps them 'crack down on crime'. God behold you'd actually put money and energy into education and raising people.

 

[emzie]

While taxing by distance driven as a replacement for normal registration fees is cool, using the data for anything else is very not cool.

 

[fugazi]

Well where is the problem with that? Speeds up the process of ending dependancy of fossile fuels, with a positive effect on enviroment and budget.

That causility does not exist though. The government doesn't want consumers to stop smoking cigarettes and stop tanking expensive fuel, as it's their main cashcow. There has been lots of research and initiatives towards promoting alternative fuel but the government always cracks them down.

But I can't blame you for that naïvety, if you'd excuse me.

 

[Riffraff]

That causility does not exist though. The government doesn't want consumers to stop smoking cigarettes and stop tanking expensive fuel, as it's their main cashcow. There has been lots of research and initiatives towards promoting alternative fuel but the government always cracks them down.

Example please for that last thing. Generally government subsidizes alternative energy..

 

[really]

I know it is a predominantly urban country but would this not discriminate against rural people?

If you live in a city you have lots of options if you want to go to the shop or school or whatever. If you live in the country you don't.

 

[fugazi]

Example please for that last thing. Generally government subsidizes alternative energy..

Friesland, a Dutch province, wants to ban fossile fuels in 2020 and launched a broad program to achieve that goal. A year (or two) ago it was all over the news and the government isn't all that happy with it. It's hard to find decent articles on it and I haven't been able to find one in English.

My google-fu is letting me down here, as I can only find less desirable blogs on the subject. Sorry, but trust me when I say that the government doesn't want its main cashcow to evaporate simply because we want to work on a better environment

 

[civ_king]

simply make the gas tax go up 1 Eurocent a month every other year it gives 0.24 increase

@fugazi use your google translate fu, correcting it if necessary

 

[Lord Baal]

A bad idea. Seems very silly. While I have no problem with attempting to encourage people to drive less to fight pollution, this isn't doing that, it is solely a cash-cow.

 

[fugazi]

Really, apparently prices will be different depending on where and when you're driving. I think the government is opening up a box of pandora here, hoping to find an unending supply of tax-monies.

I think they simply need to raise more taxes as government budget deficits are going to be enormous. The problem is that taxes on fuel are already so high that they can't raise it even more. As for the budget problems, re-elections are due in 2011 and they pushed back the massive budget cuts till after the re-election - such coincidence. The current government doesn't want to make any big decision at all and keeps pushing back every major decision. The three ruling parties differ too much on all the big issues so we basically have a few guys agreeing on doing nothing so that they can rule together, great.

So recap, they need to raise more taxes and if possible open up new avenues of taxation while they're at it. This is of course a great way to do so. Minister Ter Horst recently stated that 'a fine quota increases the level of respect for the police'. The fine quota means that every police district needs to write out at least x amount of fines or they'll get cut on their budget and she's saying that by keeping this quotum they garner more respect and authority. I can't but reply to this with

This system gives the government more options to fining people for whatever you have while not having to put out more cops on the streets. Win win, so they think.

 

[Agent327]

A bad idea. Seems very silly. While I have no problem with attempting to encourage people to drive less to fight pollution, this isn't doing that, it is solely a cash-cow.

Indeed. Our government (both national and local) is very creative when it comes to inventing new taxes; as opposition against this plan - which has been around for years - is likely to be widespread, the usual compromise will most probably result in a relatively low tax, making the net result as concerns tax revenue rather questionable. Since there are also plans to increase roadbuilding (both to reduce traffic jams and as a counter-recession measure), pollution reduction is also a somewhat utopian goal - as more roads obviously allow more cars to be driven on them.

 

[bhsup]

Holy....

I drive 60 miles round trip everyday minimum just to get to work and back.

 

[J-man]

'It is a real Big Brother is watching you story,' said Liberal MP Charlie Aptrots in the Telegraaf.

The privacy aspect is a good point but Charlie Aptrots is being a hypocrite (and the Telegraaf too).
Data of which websites you visit and to who you E-mail is stored for long time in the Netherlands. When you get a passport your fingerprint is stored centrally. The VVD (Aptrots'party) wasn't against those.

BTW, @fugazi The US and Dutch definition of liberals are somewhat different. You might get some posters confused...