Never Before Seen Civs - Elimination Game

[Returning Lurker]

Algonquian (Any) - 16
Anasazi / Navajo / Other SW NA - 13
Bohemians / Czechs / Great Moravia - 14
Nazca / Moche / Muisca / Other Andean - 15
Sabaeans / Himyarites / Yemen - 16-3=13
Ukrainians / Cossacks - 16+1=17

Words. Yet more words. Possibly even more words but probably the words I've already been saying.

 

[Kimiimaro]

Algonquian (Any) - 16-3=13 - I just fail to be impressed by their culture. It's the least interresting choice to me.
Anasazi / Navajo / Other SW NA - 13
Bohemians / Czechs / Great Moravia - 14+1=15 - Yes please. It's probably the least controversial and least difficult Civ to make. It was also historically important in various times and it has the biggest pick of leaders here. For example, Ottokar II was great diplomat and conqueror. During his reign, territory of Bohemia was almost reaching to the Adriatic Sea, and he was probably the strongest monarch in Europe in his time. Bohemia also became very rich country. He is often called "Iron and Golden King" for these reasons. Or Wenceslaus II. During his reign, silver was found in Kutná Hora. He used this Silver to make Bohemia very rich country. He was also a great diplomat - he became King of Poland, and he gained title of King of Hungary for his son - Wenceslaus III. John the Blind was great warrior - he gained lots of lands for Kingdom of Bohemia. He died in the battle of Crécy. He was blind, and yet he attacked the English, saying his famous line: "God forbid the Bohemian king ever flees from battle!" Truly a brave warrior. His only problem is that he bankrupted the kingdom. It was fixed by his son, Charles IV, who was also a great ruler. In fact, he was the first Bohemian king that became Holy Roman Emperor. He expanded territory of Bohemia, kingdom became rich again and Prague became a centre of culture, trade and education. He is often regarded as the best King of Bohemia. Kingdom of Bohemia was one of the most industrial and richest parts of the Habsburg Monarchy/Austria-Hungary. Czechoslovakia before Great Depression was one of the richest and most industrial countries in the whole world (it was in the top 20, I guess...). Bohemia also had a lots of great people: musicians (Antonín Dvořák, Bedřich Smetana...), writers (Karel Čapek, Alois Jirásek, Božena Němcová...), artists (Josef Mánes, Petr Brandl...) etc. It also has a lot of wonders - both natural and architectonical. It exists to the present day. It's a civilization that standed the test of time. And please, once again, HRE is not a problem, because it was an union and because Bohemia was almost independent in it. It simply deserves to be in the top five. (Sorry for my long claptrap. I'm a Czech, and we're just very proud of our history and our country )
Nazca / Moche / Muisca / Other Andean - 15
Sabaeans / Himyarites / Yemen - 13
Ukrainians / Cossacks - 17

 

[UkrNixon]

Algonquian (Any) - 13
Anasazi / Navajo / Other SW NA - 13
Bohemians / Czechs / Great Moravia - 15
Nazca / Moche / Muisca / Other Andean - 15
Sabaeans / Himyarites / Yemen - 13-3=10 (Yemen is already represented by Arabia)
Ukrainians / Cossacks - 17+1=18 (Ukraine is a breadbasket of Europe, and some interesting UA can be derived from that)

 

[The Kingmaker]

Algonquian (Any) - 13
Anasazi / Navajo / Other SW NA - 13
Bohemians / Czechs / Great Moravia - 15
Nazca / Moche / Muisca / Other Andean - 15-3=12 Nazca and Moche are untenable, Muisca are doable but too obscure, Mapuche literally sue software developers for using their language.
Sabaeans / Himyarites / Yemen - 13+1=14 Culturally different from their northern neighbors. Also, obsessed with ibexes.
Ukrainians / Cossacks - 18

 

[God of Kings]

Don't forget about Socotra being a part of Yemen (because of that, Yemen has a monopoly on dragon's blood trees).

 

[Siptah]

Algonquian (Any) - 13
Anasazi / Navajo / Other SW NA - 13
Bohemians / Czechs / Great Moravia - 15
Nazca / Moche / Muisca / Other Andean - 13 (12+1) This time a vote for the Muisca.
Sabaeans / Himyarites / Yemen - 14
Ukrainians / Cossacks - 15 (18-3) feels a bit forced, although Ukraine was a nice civ in the original Cossacks game

 

[Guandao]

Algonquian (Any) - (13+1)=14 Rushing to the defense of Tecumseh, Massasoit, and Powhatan
Anasazi / Navajo / Other SW NA - 13
Bohemians / Czechs / Great Moravia - 15
Nazca / Moche / Muisca / Other Andean - 13
Sabaeans / Himyarites / Yemen - 14
Ukrainians / Cossacks - (15-3)=12 One of the three that doesn't interest me too much. It just doesn't have a long history of independent rule. Best leader choices are Kievan Rus.

There is no such thing as a Civ being too obscure for the game. How many people knew about Ramkhamhaeng, or Askia before Civ5? Or Shoshone? Or Scythia? If we apply that logic to pre-Columbian South Americans, only the Incas will get added to the game. And the only other SA representatives will be post-Colonial states like Brazil...

 

[Returning Lurker]

There is no such thing as a Civ being too obscure for the game. How many people knew about Ramkhamhaeng, or Askia before Civ5? Or Shoshone? Or Scythia? If we apply that logic to pre-Columbian South Americans, only the Incas will get added to the game. And the only other SA representatives will be post-Colonial states like Brazil...

Why does everyone say Shoshone are obscure? Are they really not talked about at all outside the USA? I swear in every school I went to (2 in southern california, 2 in northern california, 2 in Washington, 1 in Montana) we were constantly bombarded with Shoshone stuff. Sacagawea, Yellowstone, Snake Wars, every level of education from elementary to university we got taught about Shoshone. I know like this sounds like a crazy rant coming out of nowhere but I just find it crazy how everyone on this forum says how obscure and left field the Shoshone are, yet when I heard about them my first response was "Alright, makes sense." I don't even particularly like the Shoshone I just thought they were common knowledge that everyone would neutrally agree on, yet according to this forum they're about as obscure as the Kootenai.

 

[Guandao]

Why does everyone say Shoshone are obscure? Are they really not talked about at all outside the USA? I swear in every school I went to (2 in southern california, 2 in northern california, 2 in Washington, 1 in Montana) we were constantly bombarded with Shoshone stuff. Sacagawea, Yellowstone, Snake Wars, every level of education from elementary to university we got taught about Shoshone. I know like this sounds like a crazy rant coming out of nowhere but I just find it crazy how everyone on this forum says how obscure and left field the Shoshone are, yet when I heard about them my first response was "Alright, makes sense." I don't even particularly like the Shoshone I just thought they were common knowledge that everyone would neutrally agree on, yet according to this forum they're as obscure as the Kiowa.

I was of the impression that many people outside of the USA are unfamiliar with the Shoshone. My point is that the Muisca cannot be considered too obscured for Civ. Many Colombians probably have heard of them. I was shocked when many people here thought the Nubians were obscure.

 

[Returning Lurker]

I was of the impression that many people outside of the USA are unfamiliar with the Shoshone. My point is that the Muisca cannot be considered too obscured for Civ. Many Colombians probably have heard of them. I was shocked when many people here thought the Nubians were obscure.

Again, I'm not snapping at you. I am just suprised to hear everyone on Civfanatics bring up Shoshone as an obscure choice when I, as an American, thought they were popularly known. It's like suddenly being told that France is a crazy wild card pick. (I'm obviously not saying Shoshone are as impactful as France, I'm not even saying they ARE impactful. I'm just using that as a frame of reference for how strange it feels)

 

[Kimiimaro]

Well, from what can I say, here in Czech republic, we were taught about Sumer, Babylon, Assyria, we touched Persia, ancient India and China, we were also taught about ancient Egypt, Greece and Rome. Then we were taught about Frankish Empire, HRE, Germany, Austria, Kievan Rus and Russia, Byzantium, England, Italy, France, Ottoman Empire, USA, Bohemia, sometimes we touched Poland, Spain, Portugal, Japan and China. We were also taught about some important historical events, like Mongol expansion or colonization of new world. But we were often given only basic information and we were mostly focused on Bohemia, Czechoslovakia, and important European countries. But hope that I will learn about more nations on grammar school. I love history and Civ showed me some Civs I didn't even know they existed or it showed me great leaders I didn't know. Pedro II or Enrico Dandolo, for example.

As for Shoshone, I worry that we didn't learn about them because they were minor part of American history, and we were only taught about the most important events. As I said, we were mostly focused on Europe.

 

[Roman Citizen]

Sabaeans / Himyarites / Yemen - 13+1=14 Culturally different from their northern neighbors. Also, obsessed with ibexes

Yemen should be at 11 not 14

 

[Roman Citizen]

Algonquian (Any) - 14
Anasazi / Navajo / Other SW NA - 13
Bohemians / Czechs / Great Moravia - 15
Nazca / Moche / Muisca / Other Andean - 13+1=14 I want to prop up the Muisca, they've now earned it.
Sabaeans / Himyarites / Yemen - 11
Ukrainians / Cossacks - 12-3=9 Kiev Rus could make a good civ, but the others are more in my interest.

In all honesty, I think the Muisca would be a great idea for a south american civ. Looking at their history, they seem very fitting for the civ format and there is nothing wrong with bringing in the obscure into Civilization. Bringing in the obscurity helps us learn new things and brings in different, unexpected ideas to the mixed. If they add a third south american civ after the no doubt reveal of the inca, it should be the Muisica.

 

[Returning Lurker]

Algonquian (Any) - 14
Anasazi / Navajo / Other SW NA - 13-3=10
Bohemians / Czechs / Great Moravia - 15
Nazca / Moche / Muisca / Other Andean - 14
Sabaeans / Himyarites / Yemen - 11
Ukrainians / Cossacks - 9+1=10

I stand by my previous statement. Words indeed.

 

[Kimiimaro]

Algonquian (Any) - 14-3=11 - I'm really not interrested...
Anasazi / Navajo / Other SW NA - 10
Bohemians / Czechs / Great Moravia - 15+1=16 - Strong culture? Check. Variety of leaders to pick? Check. Long history? Check. Important? Sometimes, but check. Many great people, wonders and achievements? Check. Easy to make a Civ? Check. Doesn't sue developers for using their language? Check. Standed the test of time? Check. Deserves to win? Of course it does! (I mean, come on, after Soviet Union and USA, Czechoslovakia was third nation that sent someone in the space!)
Nazca / Moche / Muisca / Other Andean - 14
Sabaeans / Himyarites / Yemen - 11
Ukrainians / Cossacks - 10

 

[Arianrhod]

Why does everyone say Shoshone are obscure? Are they really not talked about at all outside the USA? I swear in every school I went to (2 in southern california, 2 in northern california, 2 in Washington, 1 in Montana) we were constantly bombarded with Shoshone stuff. Sacagawea, Yellowstone, Snake Wars, every level of education from elementary to university we got taught about Shoshone. I know like this sounds like a crazy rant coming out of nowhere but I just find it crazy how everyone on this forum says how obscure and left field the Shoshone are, yet when I heard about them my first response was "Alright, makes sense." I don't even particularly like the Shoshone I just thought they were common knowledge that everyone would neutrally agree on, yet according to this forum they're about as obscure as the Kootenai.

Never mind outside of the USA, you might find that they're not commonly mentioned even as nearby as the east coast. I did pretty well in my history classes, and yet even then the Shoshone were only ever mentioned in passing with reference to Sacagawea. It took until University for them to be mentioned in any serious capacity, and they still weren't really discussed for too long since there are too many other important things happening in the 1800s.

That's not to say Natives were not discussed, but they were almost entirely southeastern ones (with a few mentions of southwestern, plains, or northeastern, as they became relevant.) Honestly, the northwest as a whole is not really mentioned outside of the context of discovering it and traveling to it, since relatively few important conflicts or developments happen there compared to other regions of the country.

 

[UkrNixon]

Algonquian (Any) - 11
Anasazi / Navajo / Other SW NA - 10
Bohemians / Czechs / Great Moravia - 16
Nazca / Moche / Muisca / Other Andean - 14
Sabaeans / Himyarites / Yemen - 11-3=8 (Although Great Dam of Marib is a formidable engineering achievement, and should be added to the game as a Wonder, the area itself is still pretty much covered by Arabia)
Ukrainians / Cossacks - 10+1=11 (Kievan Rus was the first unified East Slavic state, and deserves to be represented in the franchise)

 

[The Kingmaker]

Algonquian (Any) - 11
Anasazi / Navajo / Other SW NA - 10
Bohemians / Czechs / Great Moravia - 16
Nazca / Moche / Muisca / Other Andean - 14-3=11 I'd like to see more representation for South America, but I don't know that any of these options could make the cut.
Sabaeans / Himyarites / Yemen - 8+1=9 Race to the bottom! Can we make a 6-way tie for sixth place?
Ukrainians / Cossacks - 11

 

[Returning Lurker]

Never mind outside of the USA, you might find that they're not commonly mentioned even as nearby as the east coast. I did pretty well in my history classes, and yet even then the Shoshone were only ever mentioned in passing with reference to Sacagawea. It took until University for them to be mentioned in any serious capacity, and they still weren't really discussed for too long since there are too many other important things happening in the 1800s.

That's not to say Natives were not discussed, but they were almost entirely southeastern ones (with a few mentions of southwestern, plains, or northeastern, as they became relevant.) Honestly, the northwest as a whole is not really mentioned outside of the context of discovering it and traveling to it, since relatively few important conflicts or developments happen there compared to other regions of the country.

Really? I always got the impression that Shoshone were like the American equivillent of the Zulu empire. Regionally important but blown way out of proportion due to one or two major contacts with larger powers. Of the seven educational facilities I've been to 6 of them brought up the Shoshone at least once, and the seventh facility was a pre-K/ kindergarten so things like the ABC's and the difference between yellow and red were considered a higher priority than world history and US/Native American relations. I thought the Shoshone would be a generically agreeable if slightly mundane choice. Hell, I honestly thought people would be compaining that the Shoshone were TOO safe, and that they should've gone with something more interesting and diverse than "horse riding tipi dwelling 'noble savages' who raided settlements and fought ceremonial war with each other". I'm just really surprised at how different the reactions have been compared to my expectations.

 

[Guandao]

Algonquian (Any) - (11+1)=12 Some of my favorite Amerindian people are Algonquian, so I will defend this to the very end.
Anasazi / Navajo / Other SW NA - 10
Bohemians / Czechs / Great Moravia - (16-3)=13 I prefer other Eastern European nations.
Nazca / Moche / Muisca / Other Andean - 11
Sabaeans / Himyarites / Yemen - 9
Ukrainians / Cossacks - 11

Once the three Civs I'm interested in are eliminated, I'll stop participating...