New 4X

[bonniepbilly]

I’m curious to see if the community here is paying attention to these future games.

 

[kenneth1221]

I try not to count my chickens before they hatch.

I'll see how people feel about Humankind, then I might consider getting it, but I could easily get a 1000 more hours of entertainment out of VP alone.

 

[andersw]

Nope, I pay little attention to games not released and this is possibly? more true in slow strategy games where players learn to think before act.
Humankind looked very civ esque, but a good 4x is far more than looks and selling a product on a good engine, AI and mechics requires a lot more work than bells and whistles.

 

[Stalker0]

I consider Amplitude (the devs behind Humankind) some of the best in the current market. The Endless Legend and Endless Spaces games have been good editions to the 4x landscape.

Overall, my opinion on their games:

The Good
--Inventive. Their games are pushing the 4x landscape with different mechanics and very interesting racial designs. Also they way they work with their audience is refreshing.

The Bad.
--Needlessly complicated and sometimes unpolished. My general complaint with their games is the classic problem with inventive mechanics....they often are unpolished. I think several of their subsystems are very cool...and way more complicated than is needed. Probably the best summary of ever saw in a review was this "I have never had so much fun playing a game while asking myself 'does this actually work?'" I have played lots of endless space games and had a blast...but rarely have ever finished one.


If I had my way, Amplitude would create the initial game, and then someone would take their mechanics and polish them to a shine, that would be a hell of a 4x game. But overall, I am looking forward to seeing what they do with Humankind.

 

[Gazebo]

I consider Amplitude (the devs behind Humankind) some of the best in the current market. The Endless Legend and Endless Spaces games have been good editions to the 4x landscape.

Overall, my opinion on their games:

The Good
--Inventive. Their games are pushing the 4x landscape with different mechanics and very interesting racial designs. Also they way they work with their audience is refreshing.

The Bad.
--Needlessly complicated and sometimes unpolished. My general complaint with their games is the classic problem with inventive mechanics....they often are unpolished. I think several of their subsystems are very cool...and way more complicated than is needed. Probably the best summary of ever saw in a review was this "I have never had so much fun playing a game while asking myself 'does this actually work?'" I have played lots of endless space games and had a blast...but rarely have ever finished one.


If I had my way, Amplitude would create the initial game, and then someone would take their mechanics and polish them to a shine, that would be a hell of a 4x game. But overall, I am looking forward to seeing what they do with Humankind.

They also have notoriously braindead AI.

G

 

[Stalker0]

They also have notoriously braindead AI.

G

Eh its on par with most 4x games I play. The only game I've played that puts real effort into their AIs is Gal Civ 3....but I also don't like a lot of the game design of Gal Civ 3 myself, though I give the team credit they have been making big sweeping changes deep into the game's lifecycle to try and shake up the gameplay and address balance issues.

 

[Gazebo]

Eh its on par with most 4x games I play.

Precisely. I haven't been challenged by a 4x AI since late-stage Civ 4.

G

 

[bonniepbilly]

Does this give you hope for Soren Johnson’s 10 crowns then?

 

[Stalker0]

Does this give you hope for Soren Johnson’s 10 crowns then?

Oh that game, man I saw that thing in alpha phase years ago. I mean...anyone who has directed an entire civ game at least knows what it takes to make a 4x, so I will certainly take a look, but there is so little to see on the game right now its wait and see.

 

[adan_eslavo]

Someone said that "Distant Worlds" has one of the best AIs of all 4x.

 

[Balint2]

I rly liked Amplitudes Endless Spaces visuals music mechanics etc. But those mechanics barely worked together.
As some1 said before me it wasnt polished.
There were tactics never to be played and that rly ruined the otherwise enjoyable game for me.

But the original game was kinda good but the DLCs tragically ruined it (Penumbra, Nakalim, DLC especially the Nakalim seemed like other ppl made it or just stopped giving a damn altogether: legit it was just tragic and ruined the good parts of the game too..... )

But thats my favorite genre, despite all having pretty bad balances I think it could have pretty big potential and look forward to most 4x games.. if only they tested them and made them really quality and interesting..

 

[tu_79]

Someone said that "Distant Worlds" has one of the best AIs of all 4x.

Good enough to handle many subsystems, and make the world feel alive. But not clever in the sense of challenging the player. Well, maybe, I like to play on easy to medium difficulty, so maybe it was my impression.

 

[bonniepbilly]

So, Ten Crowns is out! Except it's now called Old World. And it looks pretty interesting!
This being said, I'll probably be playing mostly VP for the ten next years

 

[Snipergw]

I don't like it. I like most, if not all, of the design, when looked on theoretically. In practice, however, it's not very good. The "Orders" system, where you have a limited resource to move units with, makes sense on paper, but it feels awful and slow. The tech tree, using a "drawing" system to avoid tech beelining and overly "meta" plays feels random and bad, since you can't get what you want. Cities being limited to specific locations, again, is a decision I can agree is interesting and possibly good from a theoretical design position, but not in an actual game I am playing. The way it handles cities feels off, as well. I don't like the production being split in three separate yields, I'm not a fan of how specialists work, nor how border expansion works.

This got overly negative quick, which wasn't the intention. The game is quite interesting, and I think with a fair bit of more work it will be pretty good. Definitely not a Civ competitor though, even with the poor showing of 6.

 

[Casworon]

I liked old world.

But its very obvious that it's just entered early access.

The problem with comparing it to VP is that VP has been in production for year's now. In this time it has also been played throughrally and, from the looks of it, every mechanic looked at, discussed deeply and then tweaked for better balance and gameplay.

No new game is going to be able to compete against one that has received such support and for such a long amount of time.

However in 10 years when old world has had it's full release cycle, DLC and a motivated modding team (the whole game is open to modding so should do much better than civ vi in this regard). I think we could be looking at something special.

The CK2 mechanics offer so much potential for roleplay and deeper internal empire management mechanics that when perfected over time, will lead too a very different 4x experience.

 

[theMisterRud]

Speaking of Endless Legends, has anyone tried their Community Patch ?

 

[Casworon]

Speaking of Endless Legends, has anyone tried their Community Patch ?

Very very good. There are some modifying of the base mechanics, mostly stopping exploits etc, so not as much of a change as VP has made. But it has massively improved the AI. For a start they now all use their races mechanics and special abilities, try to stop people from winning etc etc. Highly recommended if you like endless legend. Can't imagine it playing it without it

 

[Catan]

10 Crowns is now called Old World and was released as early access this week. Now that I've seen the trailer I'm genuinely interested because they had years of development and of cause also Civ 4's lead designer Soren Johnson. From all the Civ games (3, 4, 5, 6) I played Civ 4 the most and I remember it as a very good game. Judging from the trailer they know what they are doing and I really hope it works out because we can only profit from a well made 4X game.

 

[Stalker0]

So I got and have been playing Old World. Here are my thoughts:

1) Its less a true civ game and more of a Grand Strategy Game. However, I find that the game feeds that to me in small manageable enough bites that I am enjoying it (I am not a Grand strategy gamer normally. For example, Stellaris is clearly an amazing game but I just cannot get into it).

2) The order system is pretty interesting, once you get used to it. Units do have a "max move" but you can break that limit by burning resources. Its possible to send one military unit from one side of your empire all the way to the other if your willing to pay the cost.

3) At its core, the game is an event based game. You'll be building cities and moving troops....but ultimately you will be given lots and lots of events, and those choices shape the game.

4) The game feels like it took Civ VI's "spread out the city" concept and did it one step further. You can only build cities in preselected places (something I don't like but you get used to it because that's not really the crux of this game). But then almost all of the key stuff is built on the land. As you build, your borders begin to spread out. Also "urban" buildings require connection to urban centers...but they also count as urban centers, allowing you to grow out your urban city bigger and bigger.

5) The combat system is pretty generic (1 UPT), but in combination with the order system does take some getting used to. You have to guard against loads of troops coming from the backline if your not prepared for them.


All in all, its got a lot of potential. Its biggest issue right now, like so many 4x.....is the "late game desert" problem. You get to a certain point in the game and you start asking "ok what now?". You have your cities, and everything is nice and stable....and then you just feel like its moar bonus for bonus sake. The events help with this a bit, but even with 1000 events you will see lots of repetition after a few gameplays (though I'll say once the public starts creating custom events....because they will.....I could easily see 1000s more events being added to the game in short order).

So in summary....its not civ, its not trying to be civ. Its an events based Grand Strategy lite game set in the classical era. I'm enjoying it like I enjoy most decent 4x games...I'll play the hell out of it for a while, and then probably put it on the shelf gathering dust for years until I come back and see if some huge improvements + community mods have given it new life.

Edit: Btw, for those wondering about the whole "10 crowns" thing. The game's win condition is accomplished 10 "ambitions"....so my guess is they were once called crowns...hence the original title.

 

[perfidiousONE982]

I am going to be honest, as my interest in games wanes. I really want to have a solid game with good mechanics, with clear direction, and that challenges me but is still good stop/start whenever.

This mod project turned a good game into a great game. I am fine with popping in every so often to get the latest version after the late game grind and crashing hits.

This is has influenced me greatly in my graspings at game design.