New Beta Version - April 29th (4-29)

[Gazebo]

Of course, to be clear my feedback is not "because of XYZ this system is terrible and must be burned by fire". Its simply, these are the things that I'm noticing that are problematic. I am actually going to do a more polished thread here in a moment, I'll take my stream of consciousness from my various post and try to give you a more concise bit of feedback.

Definitely. I just wanted to note that problems like these are in the realm of solve-ability.

 

[CyberPhy]

Since the new spy change I feel like England needs a balance change, because of the poison water supply will starve your capital to one pop

 

[Uncle_Joe]

Hello,

I use this mod as just the Community Patch (no balance changes etc and yes, I know I'm a heretic ) and with this version I no longer get the Alert icons along the right side (Ruins Discovered, Tech Researched, City State quests and what).

Not sure if that is happening for anyone else using the full version of the mod or not but this is the first time I've had issue with it using only the Community Patch Only option.

Thanks in advance for any info on a workaround or fix.

 

[tothePAIN]

Changes to Industry feel good for the situations when culture is ahead of the science needed for train stations / seaports. It makes industry feel like a good alternative to rationalism if you’re going for a more robust infrastructure rather than growth and science

 

[Stalker0]

The huns are my vassal, and won't even put out a crazy deal for me to get Hegemony. Meanwhile my other vassal Brazil is offering me a deal....ehem....with a bit of a steep price. I don't mind paying the piper, but I could have 10 times this much gold and it wouldn't be enough.

I don't mind paying more to for this deal than anything else in the game....but it has to at least be possible to get the votes.

Spoiler :

 

[skodkim]

The huns are my vassal, and won't even put out a crazy deal for me to get Hegemony. Meanwhile my other vassal Brazil is offering me a deal....ehem....with a bit of a steep price. I don't mind paying the piper, but I could have 10 times this much gold and it wouldn't be enough.

I don't mind paying more to for this deal than anything else in the game....but it has to at least be possible to get the votes.

Spoiler :

View attachment 595715
View attachment 595716

Hmm

Something seems to be terribly off in this version and I'm on the verge of saying that bug reports are a waste of time (G said himself that there could be a bad merge)

I'm waiting for the next release

\Skodkim

 

[Stalker0]

Standard Immortal England on Communitas_79. DV on Turn 350.

Spoiler :

Phew, this was a nailbiter of a game! I colonized this pseudo Australia and ran smack into the Huns, so I knew it was going to be him or me. After a looooooooooong series of warrings, I finally vassaled the huns, and turned to my internal infrastructure. This was one of those games where I couldn't get happy and I couldn't build enough stuff, even with the hammer belief I still just couldn't keep up in infrastructure.

But eventually I got industry and that helped close the gap. I took Freedom and had a strong diplomatic position set up. However, as I took note, Brazil had an insane tourism push, and was on track to get an early CV. And so, the great war began. This truly felt like WWII america style, I had every city building units and I just flung them over the ocean to the other side. The current minefields are slowing down ship speed on every enemy controlled tile, and that hung me up a lot. Ultimately it was a fun war (amphibious landings are my favorite war as they are so interesting and tactical....very challenging to do correctly without losing scores of troops).

I eventually took the capital and vassaled Brazil. This was enough to drop him out of Influence with Venice, and he continued to decline. Ok first major hurdle down.

So I had a roadblock as I lost World Ideology by 1 damn vote! Venice was on a tear absorbing CS with its powers, and suddenly my tech deficit was looking dicey. I decided to go for World Ideology Order, as I knew that would pass, and I had just enough votes to get a hegemony, plus I figured I would buy some votes off one of my vassals to finish comfortably.

The Order Ideology passed handily....but neither of my vassals was willing to deal! I now had exactly the number I needed, which was no guarantee at all. And so it was a diplo off, I sent lots of diplomats and 2 GDs I managed to spawn in short order to secure Ife. I did so....and then France took it out in 5 turns....setting me back. Venice and I were both throwing GDs and diplomats....but ultimately I had been influencing these CS for a long time, and I was able to hold. I had the perfect 35 votes needed, and DV was mine.

I've already given a lot of spy notes, so I'll be brief on this one:

• I liked the new industry opener, as the two TR definitely gave me a nice boost when I needed it.
• So minefields are bugged again and only doing the slow instead of the damage, but they are doing it on every enemy water tile. And I can already say that movement slow + damage would be bonkers OP under that setup. I was engaged in a long siege, and the movement slow already prevented a lot of mobility. If my ships were also taking damage the whole time I would have been decimated. So either or, but not both!
• Something I've noticed a few times with the huns. They build a ton of Horse Archers of course, but when they can't upgrade them they just hold on to them for a long time. I was killing Horse Archers with Cruissairs by the end. The HA is just a waste of money at that point.
• Late game cities still need more healing!

 

[psparky]

Not sure if a bug or intended.
Founded a pantheon and my capital failed to get it as the dominant pantheon. Every city i owned got 2 pantheon followers but since the capital was at 5 population, it didnt become active for that specific city.

The number of followers is determined by the accumulated pressure for each 'religion'. Based on my understanding of the mechanics, in this situation I would expect 500 Atheists and 1000 Pantheon pressure, which should result in 3 Pantheon followers (and 2 atheists, who follow no religion). The only thing that I can think of is that there is already some accumulated pressure from a religion, but that seems unlikely given the size of the capital.

Probably worth raising a GitHub report.

 

[SuperNoobCamper]

Not sure if a bug or intended.
Founded a pantheon and my capital failed to get it as the dominant pantheon. Every city i owned got 2 pantheon followers but since the capital was at 5 population, it didnt become active for that specific city.

I saw this exact scenario happeneing to an AI Ethiopia once; their capital had not majority pantheon in the ancient era despite the rest of their cities having one (this was all before the first religion got founded)

 

[bahamut19]

To be fair, I generally like what happens with VP and VP is a staple pastime. With that being said, I'm not really a fan of the espionage system in this beta. I think the prior version worked well, just needed a reasonable min/max built into it. Like, a min/ max on turns for an action to occur. Plus, stealing a tech is fairly realistic in terms of how espionage works in real life. I prefer that over stealing science points.

Now, if we are committed to the new system as a community, I would consider keeping tech stealing as an option. Another key aspect of espionage in real life is to disrupt military systems and to gain knowledge of military tech, training, and tactics. I used to work in this field. Here are a few ideas related to this side of espionage which might be possible in VP...

1) reduce adversary's potential XP from buildings and battle by X% for the min/max turns. You get a small amount of XP for all units in your empire.

2) gain adversary's best promoted unit as a defector. High risk but high reward.

3) gain access to adversary's unique unit for X turns, kinda like Iran reverse engineering an American drone a few years ago, or China learning about American stealth technology. Applicable to outdated uniques, too.

I think any of these systems, to include the ones currently in the beta, should have a major cool down where the Civ is 100% immune after being a victim of a particular espionage and the % immunity decreases each turn until it is back to it's base level (whatever that is for that Civ at that time). The ganging up of a Civ should be avoided, and this could also give more reward to the Civ who is first successful. The other Civs would not get a reward for being slower to their espionage goals.

I also want to add, I never heard of espionage against food. Russia stole my corn? No way.

 

[Kim Dong Un]

I also want to add, I never heard of espionage against food. Russia stole my corn? No way.

Corn? No.

Potato: Da

 

[skodkim]

So not today?

\Skodkim

 

[Gazebo]

So not today?

\Skodkim

No. Ilteroi dropped his update and I'm in testing on some of my own changes.

G

 

[glider1]

I also want to add, I never heard of espionage against food. Russia stole my corn? No way.

Espionage in Indian agriculture has been going on for years prior to the current corporate take over rolling out.

 

[Uncle_Joe]

Hello,

I use this mod as just the Community Patch (no balance changes etc and yes, I know I'm a heretic ) and with this version I no longer get the Alert icons along the right side (Ruins Discovered, Tech Researched, City State quests and what).

Not sure if that is happening for anyone else using the full version of the mod or not but this is the first time I've had issue with it using only the Community Patch Only option.

Thanks in advance for any info on a workaround or fix.

And FWIW, I re-installed the 4-16 build and the Alert icons work fine there so definitely something in this beta.

 

[creamedpickle]

So I found what must be a bug or the mother of all synergies(I have no idea what that would be?) in the latest 5-5 version, apstolic tradition belief playing as Austria gives each researched tech a faith boost in the thousands and rising with each tech. No Idea if its just this combination that gives this result.

Spoiler :

Have filed a bugreport to github, please let me know if I have missed something as it's the first one I have contributed with. First time I have found an issue I haven't already seen mentioned.

And thank you for all the work you do to make a good game truly great

 

[Gazebo]

So I found what must be a bug or the mother of all synergies(I have no idea what that would be?) in the latest 5-5 version, apstolic tradition belief playing as Austria gives each researched tech a faith boost in the thousands and rising with each tech. No Idea if its just this combination that gives this result.

Spoiler :

View attachment 595894 View attachment 595895

Have filed a bugreport to github, please let me know if I have missed something as it's the first one I have contributed with. First time I have found an issue I haven't already seen mentioned.

And thank you for all the work you do to make a good game truly great

Easy fix, someone put a scaler on that instant yield that I didn't know about. Removed

G

 

[Vaya]

Was there any change to the minimum distance between cities?

I've always increased the distance from 3 to 4, but in this version the AI is building cities 3 tiles apart everywhere on the map.
SET MinDistanceCities = '4'

IN (1) Community Patch\Core Files\Core Values\CoreDefines.sql
You can set 'SETTLER_DISTANCE_DROPOFF_MODIFIER' from 4 to 5 or higher. This should help.

You might also want to change 'SETTLER_EVALUATION_DISTANCE' from 8 to something higher which I think will allow AI to build cities a bit more further from its borders. I have it on 11.
And there was also some fertility setting which prevented AI a bit from settling in less fertile regions but I cant find it anymore. I had problems with it some time ago when my neighbour was letting me take hill regions between us. (I removed all fertility balance stuff from map generation that I could find but sadly my maps are still not diverse enough)

This and other settings was until recently in Core Files\Core Changes\CoreChanges.sql. Maybe there are still some leftovers there but probably not..

 

[bahamut19]

Espionage in Indian agriculture has been going on for years prior to the current corporate take over rolling out.

What country has affected Indian agriculture, what was targeted, and how effective was it? This seems interesting.