Discussion in 'Community Patch Project' started by Gazebo, Aug 16, 2020.
You picked Terra. Switch to Continents instead.
That's really not true. I was one of the voices advocating for making picking pantheons and founding easier and I play on King/Emperor.
Edit: The issue wasn't 'the game is too easy', the issue was that founding a religion was harder than many other aspects of the game and that just wasn't fun. I could go down a difficult to make religion easier, but then I'd be crushing the AI anyway. Now the AI's strength kicks in later on so religion is much easier. Probably too easy, but that's OK. We have some good options to give it a bit more power and still keep religion more open to the player.
Not only that, but 70% of Pantheons were non-founding on Immortal and higher, making them a non-option for a human player. It's ok to have a few non-founders such as God of All Creation but it should not happen with most pantheons.
The change to religions was not just making game easier, it was bringing back the aspect of the game that has been excluded for a long time.
Now let's fix the AI expansion problem without rolling back the religion balance and it will be fair
Poor wording on my part, I meant cities as well as religions in that statement. But regardless I have very little problem founding on Emperor going shrine first. Nothing more to discuss here, since it's a plug-and-play strategy, as long as you don't screw up your pantheon choice.
It's too easy to found now, but like you, I don't mind that particularly, since I always founded, anyway. My huge problem is how long it takes the AI to settle post-capital in the early game. Stalker0 already did a good job of raising fixes for that.
The Statecraft finisher bonus, the one that gives yields based on delegates is very underwhelming!
Regarding early game difficulty:
I played a game as America (Immortal, standard speed) where I expanded greedily and built relatively few units (no Spearmen because I didn't want to invest the Science for Bronze Working).
This did not work against Denmark who attacked me with Horsemen and Archers; with Walls I might have been able to defend my second City.
If I had not forward settled against Denmark I also might have not been attacked in the first place.
I played another game as Persia (Immortal, standard speed) where I tried to kill an AI with Immortals.
I think it's definitely possible to do this consistently with 4 Immortals and a Scout but the opportunity costs are relatively high.
I don't think early game difficulty is too low.
I think the game is hard enough on Immortal/Deity and if the game is too easy on a lower setting you can always just increase the difficulty.
What I will say though is that the AI seem to sometimes under-perform in terms of how long they take to found their second City.
I think this might in part be the result of a bug; in one game I saw the Aztecs having a Capital with 1 Population on turn 38 despite having access to Flood Plains.
Immortal, com map, large, epic - ABC values reduced by 30%:
Late game 1950 + :
I am feeling good with a fleet of destroyers and battleships 15 strong and two admirals. I can take on anyone! Then america declares war on me with 42+ ships of the same technological level, and crushes me utterly. I didn't even know it was possible to field so many ships, i mean theoretically sure but..ouch wtf.
AI unit planing is good.
The last religion was founded by Austria at turn 205 Epic speed .... Pretty slow IMO.
I'm testing rising handicapA from 360 to 390. So far AI are not feeling sluggy.
Monty is willing to pay me 2000g for 1 horse. His net income is 70gpt.
First time playing Immortal, let's get it. Epic since Standard feels like eras are too short and Marathon is a slog. Took a screen of my full settings but screwed it up by saving over it. Long story short - random civ, Huge map with two rifts (narrow), low sea level, start on all continents, legendary start but no other modification of resources. Only out-of-the-ordinary settings outside of my map settings are Raging Barbs earning GG/GA points and Transparent Diplo.
Wound up with Songhai, who I've never played before. Could spiral horribly, but I love my start. Thought about getting a little closer to one of the silks so I could work it right away, but I'd either be moving away from the coast or moving away from the river and marble, neither of which sounds like a great plan. Found an early ruin which got me jazzed, wound up being a production boost which isn't the best, but it ratcheted up my Monument production, so I'll be able to work that silk even sooner. Fountain of Youth is just southwest of my start, and it's close to the river and a bunch of flood plains, which means I'm definitely making that my second city. Second ruins I found gave me Pottery, which is just stellar...and Ethiopia is just south of me. Easy money. Homie better hope he takes authority, cause if he doesn't I'm gonna be taking his cities as soon as I have composite bowmen. Always nice to have an early vassal.
Third ruins gave me culture, which gives me a big leg up towards an early social policy, and fourth was a citizen (which is nice overall, but kinda wish I hit it later). Getting real lucky with ruins to start with, I'm shocked there hasn't been a map in those four. Oh, and Theodora is also south of me. Was torn between going Warrior/Pathfinder or Shrine next, but wound up going with Shrine just because I got a ton of ruins already and it feels like directing more energy towards exploration will just have diminishing returns at this point. Big thing is the barbs, but I feel like I should be good for another couple of turns. South of the first city-state I met (Lhasa, religious and hostile) there's this interesting lake area with a couple silver and an ivory, a nice lake for growth, and hella mountains. Might be my third city if no one takes it first. Oh, and I found ANOTHER ruin, this time upgrading my pathfinder to a scout. Never found so many ruins by turn 13 before.
Meeting a ton of barbs, had been mostly waiting to kill them but now that I have Authority I'm going to get frisky. Found yet ANOTHER ruin (wound up having culture), then an inaccessible one, and a cool settling spot (albeit I don't wanna be stretched too thin early). I'm thinking I might take God of the Sea because of all these nice coastal spots with sea resources, if it looks like I'll actually be able to settle a few of them. Got a comet event, went with the golden age points since happiness seems kinda pointless this early on. And I'm rolling with Animal Husbandry as my next tech since horses are bae for Askia and I need to go construction for my UB. Definitely wanting Theodora's capital at this point. Maybe just roll through both? Haven't found anyone else, might be that we're just on a continent all alone...so maybe we just stay quiet and try not to meet anyone else until conquering both.
Splurged gold to get a Council finished before my next citizen was born. No horses within my first city's borders is...a huge bummer. I'm tempted to settle somewhere away from the FoY first so that Ethiopia inevitably settles it, since then I can just conquer that city. I'll need horses if I'm going to be making waves like I want, so this spot might be my best bet. Banking a lot on conquering things right now, and a horseless warlord ain't ****. Went Dominance for my second social policy, speeding things along in the science department feels like it'll go a long ways since I mostly need the next border expansion policy for future cities. Side note, think this is the earliest I've ever gotten two policies. Not doing great in the religion race, but we'll see where that winds up. Saving up gold for a worker at this point, after Construction I'm going for Calendar so I can get plantations set up. Having my scout and warrior wander around killing barbs to generate science and stay ahead, have a warrior in the capital to keep things kosher. I was thinking about going Mining early for the Pyramids and their settler, but with my plan to conquer this continent that doesn't seem as important. The only Wonder I really need from this era is Statue of Zeus, and as long as I get Terracotta Army in the next era I'll be gravy. Someone finished Stonehenge by turn 45...oofta.
Theodora went Authority while Haile went tradition. Haile already built a Settler and settled right where I expected him to, and I'm just working on getting my population to 5 before taking the aforementioned spot. Got the Granary finished, just working on a Worker in the meantime. Starting to stress about my Pantheon...Sea is still available, so I theoretically should be good, but I've got another 8 turns before I found. Not too hopeful that I'll get a religion in, but that's okay. Maybe Theodora or Haile do and I can merc em for it.
Got God of the Sea, though I'm thinking I might regret taking it over God of All Creation if I don't actually get a religion. Theodora and Haile are popping off. Theo has 4 cities already, and Haile just plopped another one right next to me. Hope you like dried grapes, cause that's a razin city. Founded my second city, working on a Tabya to boost production and then I'm gonna pump out some archers and settlers. Went Discipline next for the immediate culture boost, especially since I can see it meaning I'll hit a Golden Age around the time war starts kicking into high gear. Also, Haile just started building Statue of Zeus and I don't even have mining...so after I finish Calendar, I'm just gonna go Military Theory to try and crank out my Mandekalu Cavalry. 3-4 with some archers should be enough to take cities.
Except that I forgot Mining was required to clear tiles of forest. Crap. Not all is lost, but I'm falling behind a bit. Got an Ice Age event that shafted me (went for the gold reduction since production would be even worse), and had a couple barbarians I was depending on for culture and science that got finished off by other civs. I did ally Mogadishu after killing off an encampment, which should be nice if I can maintain that alliance till the war with Haile, and I founded my third city (on the coast, again), so religion doesn't seem impossible. But man...I really need to take out Ethiopia. Dude is killing it. Great location for his cities. Gimme gimme. Theodora asked for gold even though she's making more money than me and I turned her down. Might bite me in the ass later, but I was mostly just making "friends" with her to avoid going to war with her and Haile at the same time early.
Dammit Morocco. Hoping not to see anyone till I warmongered my way to owning this continent was hoping for a bit much, I suppose. Especially with the narrow and shallow rifts...
Anyways, things are definitely feeling better (ie: harder) in the early game now that I took it up a difficulty level. Loving it. Dunno if the more aggressive settling is related to the difficulty, but it definitely presents some other challenges. I'll update later based on how things go.
I find the AIs much less actively participating in WC projects such as World fair. Usually the projects were done in one turn, now they usually take 2 or 3 turns with some otherwise well-performing AIs not investing a single hammer in them (no other competing WC projects etc.).
It's a good change, there are other ways to make the game harder to compensate for the difficulty change. If you want simple changes then consider:
- Lowering initial AIConstructPercent and AITrainPercent (then probably reduce AIPerEraModifier slightly) to compensate for less production bonus.
- If it is still present in the code use AIGrowthPercent to compensate for less food bonus.
If you are willing to consider larger changes, use modifiers to reduce tech/policy costs for AIs.
The Iklwa promotion seems super exploitable at least in my games (Epic Emperor), without even getting any XP quest from CS i got an entire army of lvl 6 long swords and pikes and still leveling 'em.
Going to war as the Zulus feels really good tho, i like the new buffalo promotion line.
Ahhhh, Excuse me?
Spoiler Assyria's capital producing negative production after annexation, no events were active :
Spoiler Got war score of 74 yet the max deal value for peace is 0. :
About the production bug... Is it still present the turn after the annexation?
About the other, yeah haha that's because Ashur does not have anything to give you. Not even his dignity... Good job! xD
It looks like you were playing on a tera map, where all the players are on one continent and there is an unexplored continent for civs to explore and expand
Hi I am abit confused at all the new options to select for communities map?
Is there a post that informs me what each of them do..?
Didn't get to found a religion, but because Haile was right there with Eastern Orthodoxy, I stomped him after getting my Mandekalu cavalry. Took his city by FOY first, razed the two that weren't his capital, then took peace...
...then took his capital and razed everything but his one baby city, and only avoided razing that because everyone was getting wary of my warmonger status. They should be, so I can't blame em.
Next on the agenda? Taking Theodora's capital and making her my vassal once I got medieval and my warmonger status has cooled a bit. Extorted her to make peace with Ethiopia since she was my friend, just freaking out over the fact that I was murdering the only other civ on the continent. Then it's defensive wars for a while, ideally liberating other player's cities to get back in good graces. A few players I haven't met have lost their capitals...AI isn't messing around.
Despite everything, I'm still just 5th out of 16 in terms of score (not worth a lot, I know). I've had three civs tell me they're afraid of me, including the Inca a couple turns after meeting them. This is my continent...that's just the way it's gonna be.
OK, what is up with the resource density? I thought it might be a one-off, but it's not. Certain areas of the map have very high concentration of resources. I don't know what the cause or the mechanism is, but i̶t̶'̶s̶ ̶d̶i̶f̶f̶e̶r̶e̶n̶t̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶c̶h̶a̶n̶g̶e̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶b̶a̶d̶ it feels very wrong. It's not just about the bonus resources, the luxuries are closer together than they used to be as well. Why? What's the rationale behind this?
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