1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

New Beta Version - August 21st (8-21b)

Discussion in 'Community Patch Project' started by Gazebo, Aug 22, 2019.

  1. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2010
    Messages:
    17,464
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Little Rock
    Hey all,

    New beta inbound. Lots of small tweaks, and a few big ones for navies.

    Code:
    AI
        Bugfixes for AI tactial behavior regarding danger
        Small improvements to AI logic for diplo
        Military score more precise, less dependent upon empire size
        AI naval construction priority and use greatly improved
        AI army diversity improved a bit
        AI tile selection performance improved a bit
        Text clarity and typo correction
        Additional bugfixes and performance improvements
    Balance
        Buildings
            Fixed inaccurate yield values for spy actions on police station, intelligence agency, white tower
        National Wonders
            Increased min pop requirement for all national wonders except Heroic Epic by 5.
            Heroic Epic
                Moved to Bronze Working
                Dropped +1p/5 citizens
                Added free Great General
        World Wonders
            Statue Zeus
                Moved to Iron Working, cost upped to 200p
        Policies
            Tradition
                Replaced +1f scaler with +1s scaler for capital
            Imperialism
                Colonialism
                    Reduced Monopoly flat bonus to +3 (was +4), science bonus to +2 (was +3)
            Rationalism
                Free Thought
                    Added Admiral +2 lux for instant yield
                Scientific Revolution
                    +2 Science from Jungles
            Industry
                Division of Labor
                    now 3% bonus (was 2%)
                Finisher
                    Specialist bonus now +2/+2 (was +1/+1)
          
        Happiness
            Slightly reduced tech penalty (125 from 150)
            Reworked empire happiness distribution model to not 'overfill' cities if their happiness is capped by population - excess empire happiness will pass on to other cities and skip main cities if they do not need empire happiness to be happy
                 Example: if you have 6 empire happiness, and your capital is only 2 away from its cap without empire happiness, only 2 empire happiness will be given to it and 4 will be distributed to other cities. Previously, each city would get a flat amount based on a division of the # of cities (6 / 2 = 3, 6 / 3 = 2, etc.).
        Units
            CS/RCS Changes
            Name: new (old) (* = no change)
            Dromon: 7/16 (6/15)
            Galleass: 14/24 (12/22)
            SotL: 28/40 (26/38)
            Frigate: 25/36 (22/34)
            Cruiser: 35/55 (34/50)
            Battleship: 50/70 (40/65)
            Submarine: 30/* (32/*)
            Nuclear Sub: 50/* (40/*)
          
            Chariot: 6/7 (8/8)
            War Chariot: 7/8 (9/9)
            Skirmisher: 10/10 (11/11)
            Hun Archer: 12/12 (13/13)
            Heavy Skirmisher: 13/18 (15/19)
            Camel Archer: 15/20 (17/23)
            Hussar: 24/30 (27/34)
            Cuirassier: 21/28 (23/30)
            Naga: 25/32 (28/33)
            Cavalry: */41 (*/42)
            Berber: 32/45 (33/46)
            Comanche: 32/45 (33/44)
            Cossack: 33/46 (35/47)
            Light Tank: 47/57 (50/58)
            Helicopter: 55/* (56/*)
          
            Immortal: 12 (13)
            Pict: 12 (13)
            Hoplite 13 (14)
            Horseman 13 (14)
            CC: 16 (17)
            War El. 16 (17)
            Songhai: 14 (15)
            Scout: 9 (10)
            Swordsman 16 (15)
            Kris: 16 (15)
            Longsw: 21 (20)
            Samurai: 23 (24)
            Knight: 24 (25)
            Cataphract: 28 (30)
            Conquistador: 28 (30)
            Siam: 26 (27)
          
            Musketman 22/* (20/*)
            Janissary 24/* (23/*)
          
            Gatling: 32/* (30/*)
            MG: 45/* (40/*)
            Bazooka 50/* (45/*)
          
            Catapult: 7/* (6/*)
            Ballista: 7/* (6/*)
            Trebuchet: 12/* (11/*)
            Hwacha 12/* (11/*)
            Cannon 16/* (15/*)
            Artillery 40/* (30/*)
            Rocket Art 55/* (56/*) 
          
            Air Units
                No longer consume supply
                City base air unit support now 2 (Was 6), bumped to 6 with airport (was 10)
            Navy
                Frigates, SotL, Cruisers, and Carriers now Range 2, but can no longer move and shoot
                      All except SotL and Battleships have a -1 sight penalty (SotL has +1 sight so it evens out)
                      Frigates, SotL, Cruisers, Carriers can only target land tiles that are coastal, regardless of range
                Replaced coal with iron as a SR for ships
            Mounted Ranged
                Removed 'lose all movement on rough' penalty
                Gained '+1 movement cost on rough terrain' penalty (so forests are now 3 movement, not 4, etc.)
                
    Not savegame compatible.

    Link: https://mega.nz/#!nNN0GAaL!I5J3sHsBegl4MHFRjfxNWR6ce7FdMpaDA6sHLemju1A

    Cheers,
    G
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2019
  2. CrazyG

    CrazyG Deity

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2016
    Messages:
    4,325
    Location:
    Beijing
    Could you explain the reasoning for the Heroic Epic and Statue of Zeus changes?
     
    JamesNinelives likes this.
  3. Stalker0

    Stalker0 Baller Magnus

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2005
    Messages:
    5,333
    My guess to make the iron working line more attractive. As you have noted, its very easy to skip right now.

    Most of the changes here seem in line with what we have been discussing. There are only a couple that stick out at me.

    1) Naval Ranged getting CS buffs. The RCS changes are one thing, but why are we making naval ranged more durable against naval melee? I say let them use naval melee units if they want to guard against the onslaught!

    2) Musketman/G Gun getting CS buffs. These are very strong units right now, I don't think they should be any more durable than they already are.
     
    vyyt and CrazyG like this.
  4. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2010
    Messages:
    17,464
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Little Rock
    Heroic Epic as an early GG is more appealing than it's 'long term' prior bonus. I also like Zeus in Classical for historical reasons and because it flows a bit better with the AI's wonder prioritization. It also makes Iron Working more valuable as a rush tech if you want SoZ.

    1. The light durability bump is to account for the fact that they no longer shoot and scoot. In tests I was finding that they were just a bit too squishy for the AI to handle, especially with limited visibility. Melee is very strong now, especially Boarding Party, as it can really keep a ranged naval ship from getting into position.
    2. These units come at a difficult time for the AI development-wise, and the AI tends to have a lot of Gguns (lots of UUs seem trend towards this). The light durability bump helps that.

    G
     
  5. tu_79

    tu_79 Deity

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2016
    Messages:
    6,571
    Location:
    Malaga (Spain)
    No complaints. This looks like the release I want to finish one game.
     
  6. Rhys DeAnno

    Rhys DeAnno Warlord

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2011
    Messages:
    121
    Gender:
    Male
    The skirmisher idea seems good to me, it lets them move+shoot in almost all cases while limiting their easy disengagement to flat terrain. If this applies to Chariots too that would be nice, it'd make them a bit less niche.

    I also like the change buffing Swordsmen, for a long time they had trouble standing out from Spears and they felt overall weaker than the mix of Horsemen and Skirmishers you could get from Horses/Math. I think right now Horses and Skirmishers are individually not as good as Swordsmen but the fact that they come together and can cover for each other to a degree makes them a bit better.
     
    Bromar1 and JamesNinelives like this.
  7. DakaSha

    DakaSha Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2010
    Messages:
    53
    So gold next week?
     
    Ghiznuk and burleigh like this.
  8. CrazyG

    CrazyG Deity

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2016
    Messages:
    4,325
    Location:
    Beijing
    Statue of Zeus- the tech position is fine but I think you should add a yield or two. It's not a bad wonder but it's not up to par with other classic era wonders IMO.

    Heroic Epic- this will be interesting. It still requires a barracks in the city, right? So you still need military theory and a decent population so you can't easily rush it out.
     
    Bromar1, vyyt and JamesNinelives like this.
  9. azum4roll

    azum4roll Prince

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2018
    Messages:
    353
    Gender:
    Male
    Should SoZ still give free Barracks? I think it should give a free classical building instead.
     
    bigcat88, tu_79, Deljade and 2 others like this.
  10. JamesNinelives

    JamesNinelives Prince

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2019
    Messages:
    313
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Australia
    I like this thematically. Like, jungles can get you a lot science but you don't unlock their full potential unless you invest in it. I would love to see something like this for marshes. Apart from Goddess of Purity it doesn't feel like there's any reason not to 'drain the swamp'. Whereas IRL wetlands are really hotspots of biodiversity. Similarly reefs IRL are absolutely incredible in terms of bioscience. I guess we have coral as a resource which is cool, but atolls could use a little bit of science to represent their biological significance. Ecology seems like the perfect place for that to appear IMO. Or maybe it could come from building a university, like with jungle.

    Corn chips have 16 CS? Damn, I have to get myself a packet of Doritos before my next war.
     
    MidnightAfterglow and Bromar1 like this.
  11. CppMaster

    CppMaster King

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2018
    Messages:
    847
    Location:
    Poland
    What's the reasoning for air unit changes?
     
  12. theMisterRud

    theMisterRud Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2017
    Messages:
    75
    Gender:
    Male
    So, Sweden and Mongolia indirectly buffed ? Time to start another game.

    I got back into VP recently after 6 months hiatus and man, the mod has really really improved. Thank you guys !
     
    Ghiznuk, vyyt and JamesNinelives like this.
  13. randomnub

    randomnub Prince

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2017
    Messages:
    444
    Gender:
    Male
    Woah, scary typo there, looks like min pop has been lowered instead

    Prod -> Free GG is a good change, but with the building still requiring barracks the change in the tech tree is next to meaningless imo (quite nice for Zulus though). I'd move barracks to Bronze Working as well, it makes an early detour to the bottom of tech tree more competitive even when you get no iron.

    Here the free barracks come really late, I'd say let go back to the free forge of some versions ago.

    What's the reason for leaving dromon/galleass unchanged? No particular reason for me to complain about it either (being oars powered makes those more manoeuvrables?) but it feels odd for a combat class to have 'rules' changed so radically upon upgrading.

    Fine, let just forget that change ever happened.
     
    Bromar1, JamesNinelives and Legen like this.
  14. PapaRockett

    PapaRockett Prince

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2016
    Messages:
    411
    Solid update, love the sound of the happiness distribution. Also liking the military diversity - hopefully this means the AI won't be so obsessed with siege units.

    If a SotL is upgraded to a cruiser, do they keep their +1 sight promotion?
     
    CrazyG likes this.
  15. azum4roll

    azum4roll Prince

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2018
    Messages:
    353
    Gender:
    Male
    If you have Mt. Kilimanjaro, how much movement would your skirmisher consume if it goes up a featureless hill? What about a forest hill?

    How does it work with berber cavalry?
     
    JamesNinelives likes this.
  16. JamesNinelives

    JamesNinelives Prince

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2019
    Messages:
    313
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Australia
    I agree with your other points, but I'd be sad to see barracks go missing from Military Theory myself. If neccessary I'd rather just loose the building requirement for completing it. Or it could be replaced with a building that comes earlier in the tech tree (like the Council?).

    To be honest though, a free GG seems a bit strong to me for so early in the game. Feels like a wonder rather than just a national wonder (compare it to Brandenburg Gate which comes much much later).
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2019
  17. ProCatGamer

    ProCatGamer Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2018
    Messages:
    63
    Gender:
    Male
    Nope they do not anymore
     
  18. Rekk

    Rekk King

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2017
    Messages:
    979
    I don't see anything about naval ranged getting "targets coastal lands only"
     
  19. hokath

    hokath King

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2013
    Messages:
    909
    Location:
    London
    I agree. I was thinking about this after a recent game with lots of Jungle. I remember a long time ago I played with a mod that added a National Park building that did this sort of thing. Perhaps such a building could be added to Ecology. I often think late game buildings are a bit thin on the ground. Just an idea.

    @G, this version looks fantastic. Very excited about the ships, absolutely hated the micro required before.
     
    JamesNinelives likes this.
  20. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2017
    Messages:
    4,207
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Alberta, Canada
    I made a big mistake going with a Sweden play through on the last patch. This heroic epic change means that Sweden has a global heal trigger that it has total control over starting in ancient. This should lock down that first civ conquest easy
    I assume it will mean you lose 1.5 move , same as it works for units with woodsman going into a forested hill already.

    Re: Berber cavalry, the ignores terrain cost should overwrite a +1 feature movement penalty, so it probably just shouldn’t exist on that unit

    Agree with other users that SoZ should be reverted to free forge if it’s being moved back. The barracks comes too late.
     
    JamesNinelives likes this.

Share This Page