New Beta Version - August 21st (8-21b)

[Gazebo]

Hey all,

New beta inbound. Lots of small tweaks, and a few big ones for navies.

AI
    Bugfixes for AI tactial behavior regarding danger
    Small improvements to AI logic for diplo
    Military score more precise, less dependent upon empire size
    AI naval construction priority and use greatly improved
    AI army diversity improved a bit
    AI tile selection performance improved a bit
    Text clarity and typo correction
    Additional bugfixes and performance improvements
Balance
    Buildings
        Fixed inaccurate yield values for spy actions on police station, intelligence agency, white tower
    National Wonders
        Increased min pop requirement for all national wonders except Heroic Epic by 5.
        Heroic Epic
            Moved to Bronze Working
            Dropped +1p/5 citizens
            Added free Great General
    World Wonders
        Statue Zeus
            Moved to Iron Working, cost upped to 200p
    Policies
        Tradition
            Replaced +1f scaler with +1s scaler for capital
        Imperialism
            Colonialism
                Reduced Monopoly flat bonus to +3 (was +4), science bonus to +2 (was +3)
        Rationalism
            Free Thought
                Added Admiral +2 lux for instant yield
            Scientific Revolution
                +2 Science from Jungles
        Industry
            Division of Labor
                now 3% bonus (was 2%)
            Finisher
                Specialist bonus now +2/+2 (was +1/+1)
      
    Happiness
        Slightly reduced tech penalty (125 from 150)
        Reworked empire happiness distribution model to not 'overfill' cities if their happiness is capped by population - excess empire happiness will pass on to other cities and skip main cities if they do not need empire happiness to be happy
             Example: if you have 6 empire happiness, and your capital is only 2 away from its cap without empire happiness, only 2 empire happiness will be given to it and 4 will be distributed to other cities. Previously, each city would get a flat amount based on a division of the # of cities (6 / 2 = 3, 6 / 3 = 2, etc.).
    Units
        CS/RCS Changes
        Name: new (old) (* = no change)
        Dromon: 7/16 (6/15)
        Galleass: 14/24 (12/22)
        SotL: 28/40 (26/38)
        Frigate: 25/36 (22/34)
        Cruiser: 35/55 (34/50)
        Battleship: 50/70 (40/65)
        Submarine: 30/* (32/*)
        Nuclear Sub: 50/* (40/*)
      
        Chariot: 6/7 (8/8)
        War Chariot: 7/8 (9/9)
        Skirmisher: 10/10 (11/11)
        Hun Archer: 12/12 (13/13)
        Heavy Skirmisher: 13/18 (15/19)
        Camel Archer: 15/20 (17/23)
        Hussar: 24/30 (27/34)
        Cuirassier: 21/28 (23/30)
        Naga: 25/32 (28/33)
        Cavalry: */41 (*/42)
        Berber: 32/45 (33/46)
        Comanche: 32/45 (33/44)
        Cossack: 33/46 (35/47)
        Light Tank: 47/57 (50/58)
        Helicopter: 55/* (56/*)
      
        Immortal: 12 (13)
        Pict: 12 (13)
        Hoplite 13 (14)
        Horseman 13 (14)
        CC: 16 (17)
        War El. 16 (17)
        Songhai: 14 (15)
        Scout: 9 (10)
        Swordsman 16 (15)
        Kris: 16 (15)
        Longsw: 21 (20)
        Samurai: 23 (24)
        Knight: 24 (25)
        Cataphract: 28 (30)
        Conquistador: 28 (30)
        Siam: 26 (27)
      
        Musketman 22/* (20/*)
        Janissary 24/* (23/*)
      
        Gatling: 32/* (30/*)
        MG: 45/* (40/*)
        Bazooka 50/* (45/*)
      
        Catapult: 7/* (6/*)
        Ballista: 7/* (6/*)
        Trebuchet: 12/* (11/*)
        Hwacha 12/* (11/*)
        Cannon 16/* (15/*)
        Artillery 40/* (30/*)
        Rocket Art 55/* (56/*) 
      
        Air Units
            No longer consume supply
            City base air unit support now 2 (Was 6), bumped to 6 with airport (was 10)
        Navy
            Frigates, SotL, Cruisers, and Carriers now Range 2, but can no longer move and shoot
                  All except SotL and Battleships have a -1 sight penalty (SotL has +1 sight so it evens out)
                  Frigates, SotL, Cruisers, Carriers can only target land tiles that are coastal, regardless of range
            Replaced coal with iron as a SR for ships
        Mounted Ranged
            Removed 'lose all movement on rough' penalty
            Gained '+1 movement cost on rough terrain' penalty (so forests are now 3 movement, not 4, etc.)

Not savegame compatible.

Link: https://mega.nz/#!nNN0GAaL!I5J3sHsBegl4MHFRjfxNWR6ce7FdMpaDA6sHLemju1A

Cheers,
G

 

[CrazyG]

Could you explain the reasoning for the Heroic Epic and Statue of Zeus changes?

 

[Stalker0]

Could you explain the reasoning for the Heroic Epic and Statue of Zeus changes?

My guess to make the iron working line more attractive. As you have noted, its very easy to skip right now.

Most of the changes here seem in line with what we have been discussing. There are only a couple that stick out at me.

1) Naval Ranged getting CS buffs. The RCS changes are one thing, but why are we making naval ranged more durable against naval melee? I say let them use naval melee units if they want to guard against the onslaught!

2) Musketman/G Gun getting CS buffs. These are very strong units right now, I don't think they should be any more durable than they already are.

 

[Gazebo]

Could you explain the reasoning for the Heroic Epic and Statue of Zeus changes?

Heroic Epic as an early GG is more appealing than it's 'long term' prior bonus. I also like Zeus in Classical for historical reasons and because it flows a bit better with the AI's wonder prioritization. It also makes Iron Working more valuable as a rush tech if you want SoZ.

My guess to make the iron working line more attractive. As you have noted, its very easy to skip right now.

Most of the changes here seem in line with what we have been discussing. There are only a couple that stick out at me.

1) Naval Ranged getting CS buffs. The RCS changes are one thing, but why are we making naval ranged more durable against naval melee? I say let them use naval melee units if they want to guard against the onslaught!

2) Musketman/G Gun getting CS buffs. These are very strong units right now, I don't think they should be any more durable than they already are.

1. The light durability bump is to account for the fact that they no longer shoot and scoot. In tests I was finding that they were just a bit too squishy for the AI to handle, especially with limited visibility. Melee is very strong now, especially Boarding Party, as it can really keep a ranged naval ship from getting into position.
2. These units come at a difficult time for the AI development-wise, and the AI tends to have a lot of Gguns (lots of UUs seem trend towards this). The light durability bump helps that.

G

 

[tu_79]

No complaints. This looks like the release I want to finish one game.

 

[DeAnno]

The skirmisher idea seems good to me, it lets them move+shoot in almost all cases while limiting their easy disengagement to flat terrain. If this applies to Chariots too that would be nice, it'd make them a bit less niche.

I also like the change buffing Swordsmen, for a long time they had trouble standing out from Spears and they felt overall weaker than the mix of Horsemen and Skirmishers you could get from Horses/Math. I think right now Horses and Skirmishers are individually not as good as Swordsmen but the fact that they come together and can cover for each other to a degree makes them a bit better.

 

[DakaSha]

So gold next week?

 

[CrazyG]

Heroic Epic as an early GG is more appealing than it's 'long term' prior bonus. I also like Zeus in Classical for historical reasons and because it flows a bit better with the AI's wonder prioritization. It also makes Iron Working more valuable as a rush tech if you want SoZ.

Statue of Zeus- the tech position is fine but I think you should add a yield or two. It's not a bad wonder but it's not up to par with other classic era wonders IMO.

Heroic Epic- this will be interesting. It still requires a barracks in the city, right? So you still need military theory and a decent population so you can't easily rush it out.

 

[azum4roll]

Should SoZ still give free Barracks? I think it should give a free classical building instead.

 

[JamesNinelives]

Scientific Revolution +2 Science from Jungles

I like this thematically. Like, jungles can get you a lot science but you don't unlock their full potential unless you invest in it. I would love to see something like this for marshes. Apart from Goddess of Purity it doesn't feel like there's any reason not to 'drain the swamp'. Whereas IRL wetlands are really hotspots of biodiversity. Similarly reefs IRL are absolutely incredible in terms of bioscience. I guess we have coral as a resource which is cool, but atolls could use a little bit of science to represent their biological significance. Ecology seems like the perfect place for that to appear IMO. Or maybe it could come from building a university, like with jungle.

CC: 16 (17)

Corn chips have 16 CS? Damn, I have to get myself a packet of Doritos before my next war.

 

[CppMaster]

What's the reasoning for air unit changes?

 

[theMisterRud]

So, Sweden and Mongolia indirectly buffed ? Time to start another game.

I got back into VP recently after 6 months hiatus and man, the mod has really really improved. Thank you guys !

 

[randomnub]

Increased min pop requirement for all national wonders except Heroic Epic by 5.

Woah, scary typo there, looks like min pop has been lowered instead

Heroic Epic
Moved to Bronze Working
Dropped +1p/5 citizens
Added free Great General

Prod -> Free GG is a good change, but with the building still requiring barracks the change in the tech tree is next to meaningless imo (quite nice for Zulus though). I'd move barracks to Bronze Working as well, it makes an early detour to the bottom of tech tree more competitive even when you get no iron.

World Wonders
Statue Zeus
Moved to Iron Working, cost upped to 200p

Here the free barracks come really late, I'd say let go back to the free forge of some versions ago.

Navy
Frigates, SotL, Cruisers, and Carriers now Range 2, but can no longer move and shoot
All except SotL have a -1 sight penalty (including Battleships)

What's the reason for leaving dromon/galleass unchanged? No particular reason for me to complain about it either (being oars powered makes those more manoeuvrables?) but it feels odd for a combat class to have 'rules' changed so radically upon upgrading.

Mounted Ranged
Removed 'lose all movement on rough' penalty

Fine, let just forget that change ever happened.

 

[PapaRockett]

Solid update, love the sound of the happiness distribution. Also liking the military diversity - hopefully this means the AI won't be so obsessed with siege units.

If a SotL is upgraded to a cruiser, do they keep their +1 sight promotion?

 

[azum4roll]

If you have Mt. Kilimanjaro, how much movement would your skirmisher consume if it goes up a featureless hill? What about a forest hill?

How does it work with berber cavalry?

 

[JamesNinelives]

I'd move barracks to Bronze Working as well, it makes an early detour to the bottom of tech tree more competitive even when you get no iron.

I agree with your other points, but I'd be sad to see barracks go missing from Military Theory myself. If neccessary I'd rather just loose the building requirement for completing it. Or it could be replaced with a building that comes earlier in the tech tree (like the Council?).

To be honest though, a free GG seems a bit strong to me for so early in the game. Feels like a wonder rather than just a national wonder (compare it to Brandenburg Gate which comes much much later).

 

[ProCatGamer]

Solid update, love the sound of the happiness distribution. Also liking the military diversity - hopefully this means the AI won't be so obsessed with siege units.

If a SotL is upgraded to a cruiser, do they keep their +1 sight promotion?

Nope they do not anymore

 

[Rekk]

I don't see anything about naval ranged getting "targets coastal lands only"

 

[hokath]

I like this thematically. Like, jungles can get you a lot science but you don't unlock their full potential unless you invest in it. I would love to see something like this for marshes. Apart from Goddess of Purity it doesn't feel like there's any reason not to 'drain the swamp'. Whereas IRL wetlands are really hotspots of biodiversity. Similarly reefs IRL are absolutely incredible in terms of bioscience. I guess we have coral as a resource which is cool, but atolls could use a little bit of science to represent their biological significance. Ecology seems like the perfect place for that to appear IMO. Or maybe it could come from building a university, like with jungle.

I agree. I was thinking about this after a recent game with lots of Jungle. I remember a long time ago I played with a mod that added a National Park building that did this sort of thing. Perhaps such a building could be added to Ecology. I often think late game buildings are a bit thin on the ground. Just an idea.

@G, this version looks fantastic. Very excited about the ships, absolutely hated the micro required before.

 

[pineappledan]

I made a big mistake going with a Sweden play through on the last patch. This heroic epic change means that Sweden has a global heal trigger that it has total control over starting in ancient. This should lock down that first civ conquest easy

If you have Mt. Kilimanjaro, how much movement would your skirmisher consume if it goes up a featureless hill? What about a forest hill?

How does it work with berber cavalry?

I assume it will mean you lose 1.5 move , same as it works for units with woodsman going into a forested hill already.

Re: Berber cavalry, the ignores terrain cost should overwrite a +1 feature movement penalty, so it probably just shouldn’t exist on that unit

Agree with other users that SoZ should be reverted to free forge if it’s being moved back. The barracks comes too late.