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New Beta Version - January 28th (1/28)

Discussion in 'Community Patch Project' started by Gazebo, Jan 28, 2016.

  1. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    Hey all,

    New beta version inbound. Mainly AI optimizations here, with a few bugfixes scattered about (most of which were bugs in AI behavior!). I'm happy with the new plot/specialist allocation logic, but we'll see how it goes.

    This is not savegame compatible with prior version saves, and is a 'beta,' so don't test unless you want to...well...test.

    Things to look for:
    • Weird/bad AI deal logic/values (grossly out of the ordinary prices or offers/accepted deals here).
    • Warscore oddities.
    • Plot/specialist assignment oddities.
    • Pathfinder/AI operation oddities.
    • AI production oddities.

    Bug reports should include a savegame and logs!

    Todo: Mapscript and custom map bugfixes (reverted prior 'fix' - investigating)

    Here's the changelog:

    Spoiler :


    New version (and auto-installer) online as of 12:50am EST.

    Beta Downloads Folder

    G
     
  2. saamohod

    saamohod Prince

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    Nice.
    Do we have to clean the cache or does the auto-installer do it?
     
  3. Enginseer

    Enginseer Salientia of the Community Patch Supporter

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    I wonder if we have an indicator on whose the civilization is vassalised to, now that vassals should be a little bit more common.
     
  4. Zanteogo

    Zanteogo King

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    It's in the diplomacy menu screen is it not?

    Plus it's listed when you get your declare war warning.
     
  5. Atlas627

    Atlas627 Deity

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    I don't think the Hydro Plant change will be enough, but I'll try it.

    Didn't you just nerf the Steam Mill last patch? Why also the Ship of the Line? I definitely do not see England doing well in the hands of the AI, and even I just feel like I'm playing a vanilla civ when I play them.

    Other than those things, everything looks fantastic as usual :)
     
  6. Tubbilicious

    Tubbilicious Chieftain

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    Why are we seeing a SoTL nerf?
     
  7. Funak

    Funak Deity

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    It is pretty reasonable, the SoTL was super-powerful. However I'm not exactly sure why the Steam mill change from the last version wasn't reverted, this feels like a whole lot of nerfs on Elizabeth, who in my games at least have really not been doing that well.
     
  8. zeta

    zeta Mod Addict

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    Free nuke <3 UNLIMITED POWAH
     
  9. Enrico Swagolo

    Enrico Swagolo Deity

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    Noticed some bugs:

    1. Plot decision-making is worse than before. Just had my city work a 1p1f tile instead of a 2f2g one.

    2. Zone of control is completely ignored by pretty much everything. It doesn't take all movement anymore - both mine and enemy units can walk regular amount around enemy units, doesn't take all movement points now. While it "appears" on the map as if walking in enemy ZOC would take your movement points, it doesn't.

    3. If walking in zone of control, any terrain penalties are ignored. My settler had the barbarian on southwest tille, went south to a hill with forest and settled.
     
  10. Enrico Swagolo

    Enrico Swagolo Deity

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    More plot decision-making weirdness - the plot generator wants to work a 2F tile instead of a manufactoried 1f5p tile on Default/Food desire, on Production it works the manufactory though.
     
  11. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    1.) Were you on a production focus? Was production your city's lowest value?
    2.) & 3.) I'll let ilteroi know.

    Savegame and logs for both (you should know the drill by now).

    Sounds like you don't understand how the plot value model works. # of yields on a tile does not guarantee that it will be valued higher than another tile, as the city's food ouput and/or deficient yields will play a role as well. Again, reports are useless without logs and saves.

    G
     
  12. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    Auto-installer does it.

    They exist in diplo screens, DOW popup, opinion list (if you are vassal/master). Plenty of places.

    Steam mill nerf was only 1 citizen of production (went from 1 per 2 to 1 per 3). This was a 'doing a little too well in human hands' issue tied to Slater Mill, the Order factory tenet, and Imperialism. Combo's power was a little too much (esp. the Imperialism 'free factory' policy). Same for SotL - the AI is smarter now with ranged naval units, but humans still OP.

    It didn't need much. It comes earlier, costs less, and doesn't require aluminum (which, situationally, may be scarce and is needed for a science victory).

    G
     
  13. Enrico Swagolo

    Enrico Swagolo Deity

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    Just found out how to do logs, the option was turned off before.

    And my saves are probably useless because I use strange religions mod which adds some religion icons to use (doesn't change anything else tho). Next game I will play "vanilla" beta 28th though so I will be able to add them.

    And nope I wasn't on production focus, but the next turn I looked the city started working the good tile with +1G. Only in this case, the rest of the problems remains. It's as if all cities considered production to be the yield that is worth by far the least on default and only started valuing it as they used to on Production focus.

    But before the beta patch it worked the tiles more logically? Basically more of important yields and it usually went there on default focus, only ceasing to work those pretty much objectively better tiles if I changed it to emphasise some type of yield. The only case this tile wouldn't have been worked pre-28th is if everyone else was working something or if the tile it was contesting had superior yields.

    I doubt the city food output was the case, my capital has 50+ Food Per Turn as I went tradition and got Artemis + HG, my second city that also had the problem also is swimming in food (got 4 camp-tiles, granary and 6f3g wonder on it). Same about my other 2 cities, also having an abundance of food and +20% growth from tradition being maxed.



    Anyway, another thing I've noticed - civs expand like crazy even on low-ish difficulty like King. It's not even medieval for anyone and 5 is the least they have, with Elizabeth, Hiawatha and Ramesses having 8+ each. Not complaining about that though.
     
  14. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    Elizabeth and Hiawatha are expansionists, though, so that's not surprising. Ramesses expansion is interesting. Overall, though, the AI is a bit more aggressive (not necessarily militarily) in the 1/28 version.

    That's the exact opposite complaint/concern of everyone else, so either we now live in wacky-upside-down land, or someone is exaggerating (not saying you are, but that there's a pretty stark discrepancy here).

    Anyways, logs and saves are essential for this. I'll keep looking at stuff, but my pre-release testing didn't show what you are experiencing at all.

    G
     
  15. balparmak

    balparmak Warlord

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    Loved the project changes
     
  16. Enrico Swagolo

    Enrico Swagolo Deity

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    IT costs precisely 0.03 movement to walk around an enemy unit no matter the terrain. You can walk circles around them quite literally.
    View attachment spearIsabella_0025 BC-3375.Civ5Save

    (I have 0 in Community Options first place so all resources are revealed instantly, no other changes)

    Not much plot weirdness right now there tho (now it doesn't seem to undervalue production), will get a save later if I encounter stuff as above again
     
  17. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    Hmm, interesting. Didn't encounter this in my tests, so something must've gone wrong in the last few changes made.

    G
     
  18. ZZMitch

    ZZMitch Chieftain

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    I see you made late game techs less expensive.

    It may be just me, but it feels like I tech up too fast. Note that I play on Marathon/Emperor so maybe balance isn't as fine tuned here. In my current game, for example I have entered the Industrial Era in the early 1500s. This is in a Poland game where I am more focusing on a culture victory. AI Korea is a tech or two ahead of me as well. Maybe this isn't normal though, small sample size!
     
  19. Enrico Swagolo

    Enrico Swagolo Deity

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    Engy save from the very same game.

    Basically what I said before happens here with the Engineer manufactory. You can check the Focuses, only on Production does city begin working manufacture.

    What's weird is that early game it seems to be as it used to be and values production reasonably, but the later you go the less it likes it.

    View attachment EngyIsabella_0095 BC-1625.Civ5Save

    Also I am surprised by the very fast way I get social policies, but I actually prefer it this way. It feels as if getting more cities didn't increase cultural cost, but could be just that I got some culture-giving tiles that is the real culprit.


    I also feel I tech up a bit too fast early on, but I play on epic.
     
  20. IcyAngel

    IcyAngel Prince

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    Love Apollo Program and Manhattan Project changes. I never built them early, now I have a good reason to. Great diplomacy changes too!

    England nerfs will cripple the AI, I agree. She's fantastic in player hands, because naval domination is the easiest way to win and it compounds with the UA and UU, but I have literally never seen the AI do well with her. I don't know how you could change that without turning the civ upside down, though. Perhaps Elizabeth simply cannot/shouldn't be balanced around AI usage.
     

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