New Beta Version - July 16th (7/16)

[Gazebo]

Hey all,

New beta inbound. One of the bugfixes I made broke save games (boo), so I decided to go ahead and bundle in my airplane changes. I've been sitting on these for a bit, but - since people have been talking about planes (and we've been heavily focused on late-game balance as of late) - I felt it was time to add it in. It isn't too drastic. Here's the notes:

Bugfixes

• Fixed some more bugs reported on github

New
Airplanes!

• Reworked how unit defense against airplanes works:
• Problem: was a flat number (10) w/ randomizer (8 + 5r) for all units.
  • Muskets shouldn't be as good as bazookas at taking out airplanes
  • Using actual combat defense clunky - airplanes are either way too high RCS, or weird promotions have to come into play.
• Solution:
  • Most post-renaissance units have a new value - Air Strike Defense
  • This number, added to a small 5r random number, defines the amount of damage a plane will receive when air striking against something.
  • Also added a new promotion line available to all units except armor, sub, and melee units. Promotion available when you've researched Flight.
  • Air Defense I-III
    • Each level adds +5 to the number below.
• What this will do:
  • Airplanes now have specific units they are very good at taking out (armor, subs, pre-industrial, and + rifle/gun units)
  • Certain units are very hard for airplanes to deal with, but aren't necessarily super-high RCS/CS
  • Airplanes can generally go longer in-between heals, extending their efficacy without changing their RCS/CS values
• Numbers (spoiler)

Spoiler :

-- Industrial

-- Melee
UPDATE Units SET BaseLandAirDefense = '4' WHERE Type = 'UNIT_RIFLEMAN' AND EXISTS (SELECT * FROM COMMUNITY WHERE Type='COMMUNITY_CORE_BALANCE_UNITS' AND Value= 1 );
UPDATE Units SET BaseLandAirDefense = '4' WHERE Type = 'UNIT_ETHIOPIAN_MEHAL_SEFARI' AND EXISTS (SELECT * FROM COMMUNITY WHERE Type='COMMUNITY_CORE_BALANCE_UNITS' AND Value= 1 );
UPDATE Units SET BaseLandAirDefense = '2' WHERE Type = 'UNIT_ZEPPELIN' AND EXISTS (SELECT * FROM COMMUNITY WHERE Type='COMMUNITY_CORE_BALANCE_UNITS' AND Value= 1 );
-- Ranged

UPDATE Units SET BaseLandAirDefense = '2' WHERE Type = 'UNIT_GATLINGGUN' AND EXISTS (SELECT * FROM COMMUNITY WHERE Type='COMMUNITY_CORE_BALANCE_UNITS' AND Value= 1 );
UPDATE Units SET BaseLandAirDefense = '2' WHERE Type = 'UNIT_CAVALRY' AND EXISTS (SELECT * FROM COMMUNITY WHERE Type='COMMUNITY_CORE_BALANCE_UNITS' AND Value= 1 );
UPDATE Units SET BaseLandAirDefense = '2' WHERE Type = 'UNIT_BERBER_CAVALRY' AND EXISTS (SELECT * FROM COMMUNITY WHERE Type='COMMUNITY_CORE_BALANCE_UNITS' AND Value= 1 );
UPDATE Units SET BaseLandAirDefense = '2' WHERE Type = 'UNIT_AUSTRIAN_HUSSAR' AND EXISTS (SELECT * FROM COMMUNITY WHERE Type='COMMUNITY_CORE_BALANCE_UNITS' AND Value= 1 );
UPDATE Units SET BaseLandAirDefense = '2' WHERE Type = 'UNIT_SHOSHONE_COMANCHE_RIDERS' AND EXISTS (SELECT * FROM COMMUNITY WHERE Type='COMMUNITY_CORE_BALANCE_UNITS' AND Value= 1 );
UPDATE Units SET BaseLandAirDefense = '2' WHERE Type = 'UNIT_RUSSIAN_COSSACK' AND EXISTS (SELECT * FROM COMMUNITY WHERE Type='COMMUNITY_CORE_BALANCE_UNITS' AND Value= 1 );
UPDATE Units SET BaseLandAirDefense = '1' WHERE Type = 'UNIT_FIELD_GUN' AND EXISTS (SELECT * FROM COMMUNITY WHERE Type='COMMUNITY_CORE_BALANCE_UNITS' AND Value= 1 );

-- Modern

-- Melee
UPDATE Units SET BaseLandAirDefense = '5' WHERE Type = 'UNIT_FRENCH_FOREIGNLEGION' AND EXISTS (SELECT * FROM COMMUNITY WHERE Type='COMMUNITY_CORE_BALANCE_UNITS' AND Value= 1 );
UPDATE Units SET BaseLandAirDefense = '20' WHERE Type = 'UNIT_ANTI_AIRCRAFT_GUN' AND EXISTS (SELECT * FROM COMMUNITY WHERE Type='COMMUNITY_CORE_BALANCE_UNITS' AND Value= 1 );
UPDATE Units SET BaseLandAirDefense = '5' WHERE Type = 'UNIT_GREAT_WAR_INFANTRY' AND EXISTS (SELECT * FROM COMMUNITY WHERE Type='COMMUNITY_CORE_BALANCE_UNITS' AND Value= 1 );
UPDATE Units SET BaseLandAirDefense = '5' WHERE Type = 'UNIT_PARATROOPER' AND EXISTS (SELECT * FROM COMMUNITY WHERE Type='COMMUNITY_CORE_BALANCE_UNITS' AND Value= 1 );
UPDATE Units SET BaseLandAirDefense = '5' WHERE Type = 'UNIT_BRAZILIAN_PRACINHA' AND EXISTS (SELECT * FROM COMMUNITY WHERE Type='COMMUNITY_CORE_BALANCE_UNITS' AND Value= 1 );
UPDATE Units SET BaseLandAirDefense = '3' WHERE Type = 'UNIT_WWI_TANK' AND EXISTS (SELECT * FROM COMMUNITY WHERE Type='COMMUNITY_CORE_BALANCE_UNITS' AND Value= 1 );
UPDATE Units SET BaseLandAirDefense = '3' WHERE Type = 'UNIT_GERMAN_PANZER' AND EXISTS (SELECT * FROM COMMUNITY WHERE Type='COMMUNITY_CORE_BALANCE_UNITS' AND Value= 1 );

-- Ranged
UPDATE Units SET BaseLandAirDefense = '10' WHERE Type = 'UNIT_MACHINE_GUN' AND EXISTS (SELECT * FROM COMMUNITY WHERE Type='COMMUNITY_CORE_BALANCE_UNITS' AND Value= 1 );
UPDATE Units SET BaseLandAirDefense = '3' WHERE Type = 'UNIT_ARTILLERY' AND EXISTS (SELECT * FROM COMMUNITY WHERE Type='COMMUNITY_CORE_BALANCE_UNITS' AND Value= 1 );

-- Atomic
-- Melee
UPDATE Units SET BaseLandAirDefense = '5' WHERE Type = 'UNIT_DANISH_SKI_INFANTRY' AND EXISTS (SELECT * FROM COMMUNITY WHERE Type='COMMUNITY_CORE_BALANCE_UNITS' AND Value= 1 );
UPDATE Units SET BaseLandAirDefense = '5' WHERE Type = 'UNIT_GUERILLA' AND EXISTS (SELECT * FROM COMMUNITY WHERE Type='COMMUNITY_CORE_BALANCE_UNITS' AND Value= 1 );
UPDATE Units SET BaseLandAirDefense = '8' WHERE Type = 'UNIT_INFANTRY' AND EXISTS (SELECT * FROM COMMUNITY WHERE Type='COMMUNITY_CORE_BALANCE_UNITS' AND Value= 1 );
UPDATE Units SET BaseLandAirDefense = '3' WHERE Type = 'UNIT_TANK' AND EXISTS (SELECT * FROM COMMUNITY WHERE Type='COMMUNITY_CORE_BALANCE_UNITS' AND Value= 1 );

-- Ranged
UPDATE Units SET BaseLandAirDefense = '15' WHERE Type = 'UNIT_BAZOOKA' AND EXISTS (SELECT * FROM COMMUNITY WHERE Type='COMMUNITY_CORE_BALANCE_UNITS' AND Value= 1 );
UPDATE Units SET BaseLandAirDefense = '5' WHERE Type = 'UNIT_ANTI_TANK_GUN' AND EXISTS (SELECT * FROM COMMUNITY WHERE Type='COMMUNITY_CORE_BALANCE_UNITS' AND Value= 1 );

-- Information

-- Melee
UPDATE Units SET BaseLandAirDefense = '10' WHERE Type = 'UNIT_MARINE' AND EXISTS (SELECT * FROM COMMUNITY WHERE Type='COMMUNITY_CORE_BALANCE_UNITS' AND Value= 1 );
UPDATE Units SET BaseLandAirDefense = '40' WHERE Type = 'UNIT_MOBILE_SAM' AND EXISTS (SELECT * FROM COMMUNITY WHERE Type='COMMUNITY_CORE_BALANCE_UNITS' AND Value= 1 );
UPDATE Units SET BaseLandAirDefense = '15' WHERE Type = 'UNIT_MECHANIZED_INFANTRY' AND EXISTS (SELECT * FROM COMMUNITY WHERE Type='COMMUNITY_CORE_BALANCE_UNITS' AND Value= 1 );
UPDATE Units SET BaseLandAirDefense = '25' WHERE Type = 'UNIT_XCOM_SQUAD' AND EXISTS (SELECT * FROM COMMUNITY WHERE Type='COMMUNITY_CORE_BALANCE_UNITS' AND Value= 1 );
UPDATE Units SET BaseLandAirDefense = '10' WHERE Type = 'UNIT_MODERN_ARMOR' AND EXISTS (SELECT * FROM COMMUNITY WHERE Type='COMMUNITY_CORE_BALANCE_UNITS' AND Value= 1 );
UPDATE Units SET BaseLandAirDefense = '30' WHERE Type = 'UNIT_MECH' AND EXISTS (SELECT * FROM COMMUNITY WHERE Type='COMMUNITY_CORE_BALANCE_UNITS' AND Value= 1 );

-- Ranged
UPDATE Units SET BaseLandAirDefense = '35' WHERE Type = 'UNIT_ROCKET_ARTILLERY' AND EXISTS (SELECT * FROM COMMUNITY WHERE Type='COMMUNITY_CORE_BALANCE_UNITS' AND Value= 1 );
UPDATE Units SET BaseLandAirDefense = '10' WHERE Type = 'UNIT_HELICOPTER_GUNSHIP' AND EXISTS (SELECT * FROM COMMUNITY WHERE Type='COMMUNITY_CORE_BALANCE_UNITS' AND Value= 1 );


-- And now boats.

-- Industrial
-- Melee
UPDATE Units SET BaseLandAirDefense = '5' WHERE Type = 'UNIT_IRONCLAD' AND EXISTS (SELECT * FROM COMMUNITY WHERE Type='COMMUNITY_CORE_BALANCE_UNITS' AND Value= 1 );
-- Ranged
UPDATE Units SET BaseLandAirDefense = '10' WHERE Type = 'UNIT_CRUISER' AND EXISTS (SELECT * FROM COMMUNITY WHERE Type='COMMUNITY_CORE_BALANCE_UNITS' AND Value= 1 );

-- Modern
-- Ranged
UPDATE Units SET BaseLandAirDefense = '5' WHERE Type = 'UNIT_SUBMARINE' AND EXISTS (SELECT * FROM COMMUNITY WHERE Type='COMMUNITY_CORE_BALANCE_UNITS' AND Value= 1 );
-- Atomic
-- Melee
UPDATE Units SET BaseLandAirDefense = '40' WHERE Type = 'UNIT_CARRIER' AND EXISTS (SELECT * FROM COMMUNITY WHERE Type='COMMUNITY_CORE_BALANCE_UNITS' AND Value= 1 );
UPDATE Units SET BaseLandAirDefense = '30' WHERE Type = 'UNIT_DESTROYER' AND EXISTS (SELECT * FROM COMMUNITY WHERE Type='COMMUNITY_CORE_BALANCE_UNITS' AND Value= 1 );
-- Ranged
UPDATE Units SET BaseLandAirDefense = '25' WHERE Type = 'UNIT_BATTLESHIP' AND EXISTS (SELECT * FROM COMMUNITY WHERE Type='COMMUNITY_CORE_BALANCE_UNITS' AND Value= 1 );
-- Information
-- Melee
UPDATE Units SET BaseLandAirDefense = '35' WHERE Type = 'UNIT_MISSILE_CRUISER' AND EXISTS (SELECT * FROM COMMUNITY WHERE Type='COMMUNITY_CORE_BALANCE_UNITS' AND Value= 1 );
-- Ranged
UPDATE Units SET BaseLandAirDefense = '10' WHERE Type = 'UNIT_NUCLEAR_SUBMARINE' AND EXISTS (SELECT * FROM COMMUNITY WHERE Type='COMMUNITY_CORE_BALANCE_UNITS' AND Value= 1 );

Balance

• Internal Trade Route yields scale with % of techs known
• Council of Elders scaler now 3 (Was 5)
  
• Seaport back to 25% production
• Motherland Calls: removed Tourism penalty (duplicate of Great Firewall ability); no unrest/rebellion from spies in city, and your spies are much more likely to cause unrest and rebellion via advanced actions.
• NIA: gain 400 science and culture when your spies complete a coup, steal a great work or technology, and 100 if they complete an advanced action. - removed other advanced action stuff
• Bletchley: Spies much more likely to steal science or disrupt world wonders
• Police Stations: Block Gold theft in the City via advanced actions, gain 250 gold and culture when you a spy is killed in this city, scaling with era and spy level
• Constabularies (and Wats): Blocks building destruction from spy advanced actions, increases city defense by 5.

Online as of 10:50pm EST. Link: https://mega.nz/#!SJ8F1BzB!Q_e2mPT5gZWVC5m_mTYYkHPLCjgQno-Cy-vkjtrzDxI

Cheers,
Gazebo

 

[Stalker0]

So does this replace interception, do anti air units extend their air strike defense, or is ASD a seperate mechanic from interception?

 

[Enginseer]

• Reworked how unit defense against airplanes works:

Ah of course.. now I gotta do some readjustments for those compatibility civs of mine... if only they had SQLtriggers.

 

[Gazebo]

So does this replace interception, do anti air units extend their air strike defense, or is ASD a seperate mechanic from interception?

Separate mechanic. This is purely for air strikes via airplanes against units. Interceptions still happen as before. Its just that, with this build, there are many unit types (like armor units, submarines, and most gun/melee units) that do virtually no damage to airplanes. If your opponent doesn't have an AA screen or interceptor planes, you can decimate these unit types without worry.

G

 

[8bitBob]

Plane Changes

Just for reference, what's the state of attacking cities after these changes?

 

[balinte]

Yeah!! Hello my now usefull airplanes <3
Genius executing as always!

 

[Horvath Broncos]

Looks certainly interesting. The council of elders nerf was very much needed. Those scaling with cities beliefs can get out of hand quite easily in big maps. Especially if one likes to play like me in a very crowded maps. 20 civs on a huge map is my setting almost always

 

[ElliotS]

Does that mean pre-industrial units do 0 damage to planes, or will swordsmen do more damage than tanks to my planes?

Looks good overall! I'm not at all convinced council of Elders needed a nerf rather than a more general nerf to scaling, but we'll see.

 

[tu_79]

Finally! Some love for aircraft.

I'm not sure about having specific promotions against planes. Seems like a waste if I can build some planes myself. Even if the civ I'm fighting is more advanced, I'm not sure it's worthy to spend promotions in something that I will be able to defend in a dozen turns. I'd only pick it for my ships, since there's a long way for the carriers to come, or if I'm completely missing oil. It'd be a different thing if Air Defense protects also adjacent units.

Bombers could be stronger against big targets, like siege, tanks and ships, while fighters could be stronger against light units, like melee and ranged (it's actually using an inaccurate gun machine from the skies)

Now, just add kamikaze attacks (sacrifice a fighter to sink a ship) for zeroes.

 

[kawyua]

• Internal Trade Route yields scale with % of techs known

Wow, I have to see what that means. maybe highly centralized production will be worth it now. Internal trade routes just needed some more base, but this works too, I guess.

I'm happy to see your take on airplanes. This will certainly be a boon for the ai- At least in comparison to how the player uses it. Priority targeting was always an issue concerning ai plane usage, so hopefully this lessens the issue. I'm a bit scared of what this means come late game, lol...

 

[Aldebaran1997]

Would someone explain what is advanced action and what isn't?

 

[Moi Magnus]

Would someone explain what is advanced action and what isn't?

Spies can :

• Steal tech
• Steal great works (if not in capital)
• Make some kind of pression (religious, ...) if you have the good policies/belief/...
• Learn some infos (plot, ...)
  
• Do advanced actions : steal gold, steal science, sabotage production, and assassinate great people (and possibly 1-2 other things that I have forgotten)

 

[PapaRockett]

Does that mean pre-industrial units do 0 damage to planes, or will swordsmen do more damage than tanks to my planes?

Looks good overall! I'm not at all convinced council of Elders needed a nerf rather than a more general nerf to scaling, but we'll see.

I had one game where I was the only founder on my continent with 4 other civs, I took Council of Elders and I eventually reached a *significant* science advantage over everyone else in the game, it did make me question the belief.

Also those spy changes sound exciting! Makes me want to play England as a supervillain

 

[8bitBob]

I'm not sure about having specific promotions against planes. Seems like a waste if I can build some planes myself.

Just went through an easy test game to try out the changes. From what I can tell, the promotion exists solely for when you're at a massive disadvantage in aerial combat. This includes situations where you have aerial tech and AA, but their Bombers just blot out the sun. It's not going to make you win, but it may stem the bleeding. Anyone feel free to correct me if they disagree though.


As for effectiveness, Bombers seem to do some pretty horrific damage if uncontested. Twenty or so attacks without needing to heal can basically obliterate an army. That being said, Fighters seem to still have their place in offense: healing every turn with Air Repair means that, if your enemy is spamming air defense, you can still keep up the pressure. If not going Autocracy, Imperialism's free Range promotion is a God send.

B17 and Zeroes seem to have really come into their own with this update. B17 start with Logistics, which is obviously much stronger now. Zeroes are... oppressive. I'm honestly not sure how you could wrestle the skies from an Autocracy player determined to win it aside from out teching them, and Elite Forces means they can wrack up promotions like nobody's business (why hello there, 4 Interceptions per turn and 63% Dogfighting combat strength). Both definitely feel like the late game "unique" unit powerhouse that they should be now. I feel like Zeroes are stronger, but they also require three more policies, so that makes sense.


All in all, really liking the update. I have exactly one question for @Gazebo though: how difficult would it be to make planes count towards city state bullying? Currently, they generate no military might due to proximity. This seems odd, as having an aircraft carrier off the coast is easily one of the most terrifying positions you can be in. Aside from feeling pretty lame, it can actually impact Autocracy's Diplomatic game pretty heavily now as it disincentivizes the player from building planes.

 

[josephrandall]

With the Council of Elders getting nerfed, I think Holy Law needs a nerf as well. It can be equally as OP.

 

[Enrico Swagolo]

Changes look very sweet, but I will keep on trying to finish my current game on the previous version before going to this one. Fixes will be sweet, though the Police Station buff won't change much - it'll be better at it's job, but only worthwhile in the capital anyway. Constabulary's going to be really sweet though.

With the Council of Elders getting nerfed, I think Holy Law needs a nerf as well. It can be equally as OP.

Most of the per pop/city founders can be OP, now CoE was just made unlikely to be taken.

 

[Gazebo]

Changes look very sweet, but I will keep on trying to finish my current game on the previous version before going to this one. Fixes will be sweet, though the Police Station buff won't change much - it'll be better at it's job, but only worthwhile in the capital anyway. Constabulary's going to be really sweet though.



Most of the per pop/city founders can be OP, now CoE was just made unlikely to be taken.

I think a balance pass of numbers for the founder beliefs makes sense. I did Coucil because I've seen it specifically lead to snowball more than others.

G

 

[Gazebo]

Just went through an easy test game to try out the changes. From what I can tell, the promotion exists solely for when you're at a massive disadvantage in aerial combat. This includes situations where you have aerial tech and AA, but their Bombers just blot out the sun. It's not going to make you win, but it may stem the bleeding. Anyone feel free to correct me if they disagree though.


As for effectiveness, Bombers seem to do some pretty horrific damage if uncontested. Twenty or so attacks without needing to heal can basically obliterate an army. That being said, Fighters seem to still have their place in offense: healing every turn with Air Repair means that, if your enemy is spamming air defense, you can still keep up the pressure. If not going Autocracy, Imperialism's free Range promotion is a God send.

B17 and Zeroes seem to have really come into their own with this update. B17 start with Logistics, which is obviously much stronger now. Zeroes are... oppressive. I'm honestly not sure how you could wrestle the skies from an Autocracy player determined to win it aside from out teching them, and Elite Forces means they can wrack up promotions like nobody's business (why hello there, 4 Interceptions per turn and 63% Dogfighting combat strength). Both definitely feel like the late game "unique" unit powerhouse that they should be now. I feel like Zeroes are stronger, but they also require three more policies, so that makes sense.


All in all, really liking the update. I have exactly one question for @Gazebo though: how difficult would it be to make planes count towards city state bullying? Currently, they generate no military might due to proximity. This seems odd, as having an aircraft carrier off the coast is easily one of the most terrifying positions you can be in. Aside from feeling pretty lame, it can actually impact Autocracy's Diplomatic game pretty heavily now as it disincentivizes the player from building planes.

Love the write up. I'll look at the bully mechanic.

 

[ElliotS]

One question with advanced actions: If you block an advanced action, does that just mean the spy will perform a different one, or that the spy will roll an advanced action and if it's one of the disallowed ones fail to do anything at all?

I've never really understood that and it greatly affects the value of blocking advanced actions.

 

[bigcat88]

Guys only I have to say to my worker/settler each turn where to move?(I don't see any barbs near and they cant reach my worker even if there is a horseman in fog near, cause worker are deep in my territory)