New Beta Version - June 22nd (6/22)

[Gazebo]

Hey all,

New beta inbound. Opening new thread since the other one was cluttered.

Here's the new patch notes:

• Bugfixes
  • Improvements to diplo AI, esp. for open borders
  • AI less keen to dive into DOF to start a relationship (they've been burned too many times...)
  • Github fixes and requests implemented
  • MP desync barb fix tested.
• General:
  • Science scaler from # of cities back to pre-beta value (culture value still 1% higher than before)
  • Reduced policy cost for late game slightly (5%)
• Improvements:
  • Increased Culture, Faith, and Tourism from Holy Sites (starting and tech scaling) by 1.
• Buildings:
  • Halved instant-yield Tourism from Zoo construction.
• Great Works:
  • Base Tourism from Great Works increased to 3 (was 2)
• Leaders:
  • Siam: UA Influence now 35 (was 40)
  • Japan UA bonus from XP reduced for AI slightly at higher levels (should feel less absurd)
• Policies:
  • Progress (Organization Policy):
    • Added - Trade Routes to Civilizations with more Techs and/or Policies than you generate +3 Science and/or Culture.
• Tourism:
  • Reduced instant tourism from historic events (including aesthetics and patronage elements) by about 30%. Tourism from trade route events unchanged.
• Units:
  • Instant yield abilities nerfed for Great Artist, Scientist, Merchant (gold), Musician, and Writer (20-30%)
  • Great Writers now scale based on # of owned Great Works.
    • Every GW you have increases the value of your cultural instant yield by 3%.
  • Great Artists now scale based on # of active art themes.
    • Every themed art set increases base value of Golden Age turns (4) by 20%.
  • Field Gun now has indirect Fire

And here's the June 9th Beta patch notes:

Spoiler :

Bugs:

• Performance enhancements and optimizations
• Fixed tactical AI bugs related to healing, danger, and pathfinding
• Various github bugs/requests addressed
• Voluntary vassalage no longer possible if at war
• Worked on AI religion, pantheon selection (big improvements here)
• Worked on AI road building logic and gold management methods
• Integrated proper (i.e. actually intelligent) inquisitor logic for AI

New:

• All tiles revealed during a turn remain revealed for the duration of the turn
  • This is largely a boon for the AI, but it is also a rationalization of the rather odd 'memory loss' suffered by units revealing/unrevealing tiles on a turn

• Trade Route change:
  • Trade Routes now generate modest amounts of Culture based on the policy difference between two players (just like Science)
    • There's been a lot of talk about 'catch up' methods, and this is the best solution. It is active, engaged, and avoids the 'pity hand outs' of simply punishing high-culture players or rubber-banding low-culture players.

Balance:

General​

• Increased AI resistance bonus slightly at higher difficulties (more capitals = more resistance from other civs) - now affects all civs human and nonhuman (though it affects humans more than others)
• Puppet Culture, Science and Tourism modifiers now -40% (were -25%)
• Increased Culture and Science scaling costs from # cities by 2/3% for all map sizes.

City-States

• Faith from CSs increased slightly (+1 in ancient, +2 in classical, etc.)
• Influence from CS unit gifts diminishes based on the number of military units owned by the CS (floor is half the normal influence value)
• Reduced base value of bullying slightly.
• Gain culture from TRs to CSs (like science)

Pantheons:

• Earth Mother now +3 production from monuments (was +2)

Enhancers:

• Tithes follower scaler now 8 (was 6)
• Sainthood follower scaler now 10 (was 6)
• Evangelism Science from missionaries dropped by 15%
• Pacifism now 1 happiness per 10 (Was per 6)

Units:

• Recon units start with Treasure Hunter, Treasure Hunter buffed to 50% (was 25%)
• Ranged Naval units start at range 1. Range 2 begins with Cruisers.
• Field Gun now range 2 (was Range 3)
• Ironclad, Destroyer, and Missile Cruiser all require 1 coal (was formerly just ironclad).
• Frigate and SotL no longer require Iron.
• Naval changes should make combat more melee and close-quarters oriented, playing to the AI's strength and minizing the absence of interesting terrain at sea.
• Requirements for coal on all late-game melee ships also make it so that each unit type is prized for its role, not its resource use.
• Frigate/SotL going Iron free means that all global navies have parity until the Industrial period. This is more historically interesting and gives civs that war in the mid-game a chance to find the iron they need to upgrade before the naval divergence of the industrial period.
• Siege units gain Naval Misfire promotion, promotion bumped to 33% (was 25%)
  • Should be harder for land units to hit naval units than vice-versa
• Bumped RCS/CS of naval ranged units slightly, can move and shoot.

Cities

• A coastal city blockaded by water (i.e. enemy units adjacent to city on water) produces -25% gold

Resolutions:

• World Ideology now unlocks with Telecommunications

Promotions

• Survivalism III - loses withdraw, gains Enemy Route use
• Trailblazer III - loses Enemy Route use, gains withdraw

Process:

• Increased potency of Defense process, but decreased production conversion to 10% (so you should see the change more clearly, but it scales less steeply)

India:

• -50% Prophet Costs added to UA
• Upped passive religious spread power slightly

Japan:

• Bumped XP -> Science/Culture gain up one factor (UA)

Rome:

• New Legion promotion - Pilum - 10 damage to adjacent enemies every turn you are fortified

Celts:

• Pantheon choices rebalanced:
  • Epona, the Great Mare: now +10 (was +12)
  • Lugh, the Skilled One: now +3 (was +4)
  • Bran, the Sleeping Guardian: Added: +12 Culture when a Citizen is born, scaling with era (removed culture in city)
  • Morrigan, Harbinger of Strife: 100% of CS as yields (was 50%)
  • Nuada, the Silver-Handed King: Added +2 Gold from City Connections
  • Ogma, the Learned: Added +3 Science +3 Culture +3 and Great Scientist points in the Capital
  • Rhiannon, Goddess of Sovereignty: +2 Culture in every city. +1 Production and +1 Gold from any tile with an improved resource

Policies:

• Policy costs increased by about 20% overall (including scaling above).
• Refactored policy costs for Wonders - are generally more even and slightly less strict than before.
• Progress:
  • Expertise - loses 1 movement for civilians, gains 5% reduction of all future policy costs
  • Liberty - gains +1 movement for civilians
• Authority:
  • Tribute - Values reduced to 20/20 and 30, respectively
  • Finisher - Added: yields from Tribute policy doubled.
• New finisher wonders for all policy branches:
  • Tradition - Sankore
  • Progress - Forbidden Palace
  • Authority - Alhambra
  • Piety - Taj Mahal
  • Statecraft - Big Ben (Westminster, see below)
  • Aesthetics - Louvre
  • Imperialism - Pentagon
  • Rationalism - Bletchley Park
  • Industry - Broadway

• Why? Changes to policy speed over time have caused wonder unlocks to be far too late (hanging gardens in medieval), so I bumped all wonders up a level. This has been a problem for some time.

Wonders:

• Big Ben now Palace of Westminster
• Westminster and Forbidden Palace bonuses flipped
• Broadway Theming bonus now Gold (was Culture) - added bonus: +250 Culture (scailng) when you construct a building in this city.

Buildings:

• Monument and Stele now have no maintenance
• Monument now has +2 Culture

Not savegame compatible.

Link:
https://mega.nz/#!3NU3yIrB!M3i43hKzwUXbN9zX0yMR4jZzq9lmqU0iSUdm1UYxUBY

Cheers,
Gazebo

 

[ShadedSkies]

• Added - Trade Routes to Civilizations with more Techs and/or Policies than you generate +3 Science and/or Culture.

This combined with the new Monument should be a great combo for quick, early settling. If only I could figure out how to protect my anything when barbarians have horsemen by turn 60

 

[LukaSlovenia29]

Thank you!

 

[Enrico Swagolo]

All seems very good and interesting, nice steps in the right direction. I still don't like the further decreased CS for owning foreign capitals, but the version looks like it will further improve stuff. The only balance concerns I have are ideologies I guess as they have many tenets one should avoid at all cost whereas AIs might take them and cripple themselves. IMHO it's important the tenets are at least not greatly inferior to the others in the tier as AI probably isn't coded to not take it. It's fine if some are obviously stronger in a tier I think as it'd be boring if all policies were equal as you'd have nothing to look forward to taking, but none should be so weak, you question why anyone would ever take them. I've written some posts long time ago in the relevant parts of the forum.

 

[bigcat88]

Very cool changelog. That's great! Soon will start a new game )

 

[norburger]

Hello, and thank you for modding this, seems like the only way to play these days.

I like the idea of progress opener capital growth science bonus from the end of the previous beta thread (post #300), the authority doesn't have to keep it's cities under size 8 for honor policy military unit bonus, why should progress be penalized for growing it's capital while having it's opening policy delayed. Limit it to only when adopted in ancient era or maybe some other way if you want to prevent late adoption multiplied by both capital size and late era multipliers getting a blowout science bonus.

I like the zoo change, the new great writer/artist cumulative bonus mechanic, the recent whole scout line transformation, trade addition to progress (since trade is progress).

My suggestion, is for the progress trade policy benefits set a base +1 science and culture yields for the trade route (limit it to trade routes with other major civs if you want to keep that current design bit) and do whatever you want with the catch up mechanic bonus yields.

The fact that we are considering a science/culture catch up bonus yields for science/culture policy tree just doesn't feel right. And you need an AI civilization with bonuses (deity or not) to be ahead of you and preferably not at war with you to get those yields, otherwise it doesn't do anything. I would like to see progress tree retain it's flavor/areas of excellence across the spectrum of civilizations in case some adventurous soul wants to try unsynergistic progressive zulus for example. Catch up yields feel like a solution to a situation where progress tree with culture/science civ is good or ok and progress tree with everybody else needs special treatment to be relevant.

 

[Zymos]

Field Gun gets Indirect Fire? What's the difference between it and the old artillery now?

 

[kawyua]

Field Gun gets Indirect Fire? What's the difference between it and the old artillery now?

Field guns are now 2 range.

 

[Owlbebach]

I really like all changes.

The only think I'm not sure about is addition of trade routes to the left branch of progress. It is good itself but the problem is that with progress you need to grab +2/+2 policy ASAP, otherwise your cities cannot build stuff and drow in poverty. And with the useless free worker policy it takes eternity to grab it.

Considering the latest change - how about changing policies places:+2/+2 policy with +20% policy? This will not make the whole Progress tree stronger, but will help A LOT in adopting it, which is currently the main problem

 

[Gazebo]

I really like all changes.

The only think I'm not sure about is addition of trade routes to the left branch of progress. It is good itself but the problem is that with progress you need to grab +2/+2 policy ASAP, otherwise your cities cannot build stuff and drow in poverty. And with the useless free worker policy it takes eternity to grab it.

Considering the latest change - how about changing policies places:+2/+2 policy with +20% policy? This will not make the whole Progress tree stronger, but will help A LOT in adopting it, which is currently the main problem

That progress change would make the tree have a single progression path. Right now you can go either side first.

All seems very good and interesting, nice steps in the right direction. I still don't like the further decreased CS for owning foreign capitals, but the version looks like it will further improve stuff. The only balance concerns I have are ideologies I guess as they have many tenets one should avoid at all cost whereas AIs might take them and cripple themselves. IMHO it's important the tenets are at least not greatly inferior to the others in the tier as AI probably isn't coded to not take it. It's fine if some are obviously stronger in a tier I think as it'd be boring if all policies were equal as you'd have nothing to look forward to taking, but none should be so weak, you question why anyone would ever take them. I've written some posts long time ago in the relevant parts of the forum.

I know you and others have mentioned tenets, but they haven't been on my radar. Please reopen the thread discussion. And remember that they're policies, so they need to use policy elements that already exist.

G

 

[kawyua]

I remember there was a version where civs were very protective of their workers - what happened to that? I swear I saw it work before...

Liberty as a policy was never that bad... its just that workers are too easy to get. If the ai was actually defending their workers then the policy would be good. I usually grab 1-2 from civs and 1 from a city state, maybe war later for another. There just isn't enough military pressure or consequences to punish this sort of play.

Besides, as a player it is quite tiring to play the waiting game every single time. It was always an unfair advantage that should have never meant to be. Each worker is too valuable to be rewarded from this gamey mechanic. Is it possible to get workers to be defended even during peacetime?

 

[Owlbebach]

That progress change would make the tree have a single progression path. Right now you can go either side first.
G

I agree, i also thought about that. But here is the problem: both Authority and Tradition gain serious production and/or culture boosts in 1st and 2nd policies, while Progress don't. +10/+10 for buildings is nice on paper, but the problem is that if you choose it first - you do not get literally anything because you are building settlers!

 

[ElliotS]

That progress change would make the tree have a single progression path. Right now you can go either side first.

That's not how it works right now though. You just can't open organization. You NEED to go worker -> /. If you don't, you just don't have the ability to do anything.

I'll repeat my earlier suggestion:
I think that we should change the production policy to be a tier 1 and also a requirement for the city connection policy. (So it's a Y.)

In addition make the opener work retroactively up to a certain limit, so you're not punished for getting pop ruins or a good food start.

I think that would add more variety in choices. Sometimes you want the worker, you can get it. Sometimes you want production -> organization. You can get it. And if you think organization opener is viable you can still do so.

 

[Aldebaran1997]

Policies:

• Progress (Organization Policy):
  • Added - Trade Routes to Civilizations with more Techs and/or Policies than you generate +3 Science and/or Culture.

Hail Republic of Venice!

 

[LukaSlovenia29]

Progress (Organization Policy):

• Added - Trade Routes to Civilizations with more Techs and/or Policies than you generate +3 Science and/or Culture.

Does it scale with era?

 

[bigcat88]

Only I got units stop in a half of a move?

 

[Enginseer]

The Empire of Venice is no more. Come into the era of the Republic.

 

[CrazyG]

Could we consider changing the 30 for a citizen birth to something else? Its so inconsistent how much this is worth early on. Progress opener actually beats tradition opener in culture if you can get a couple citizens after this, but sometimes I feel like I can't pick progress because I won't get any science from the opener for a long time

 

[MrStarbuck]

I'm getting weird movement bugs, take a look at the screenshot below. The movement preview circle is a zero. Also my units will move one hex and stop when I've told them to move multiple hexes.

Spoiler :

Civbeta-movebug

• MrStarbuck
• Jun 23, 2017

 

[Boombar]

I have the same issue with movement. When i tell a unit to move multiple hexes it stops moving after one hex. is so annoying!