New Beta Version - November 25th (11/25)

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Gazebo

Gazebo

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Hey all,

New beta inbound. Attempting to compile and reboot sync after my absence. Balance changes are pretty mild, mainly cleanup from prior versions and some slight reversions/tweaks based on long-standing concerns.

Code: 
Changelog:

General
    Compilation of diplo fixes from Recursive
    Compilation of tactical AI/milsim fixes from Ilteroi
    Misc updates/bugfixes from others
    AI siege prowess greatly improved
    AI target seleciton improved
    Improvements to army composition and building priorities
    Improvements to AI CS targeting for diplo purposes
    Misc bugfixes
Balance
    General
        Cities
            Start weaker CS/Health-wise, scale a little slower (cities a little weaker overall)
            Slight reduction in empire needs penalty
        Tech
            Oil moved to Combustion
        Religion
            Pantheons
                Swapped Herbalist and Market for Renewal/Springtime
                    Herbalist bonus now +1 science/+2 faith; Market bonus now +2 food and science
        Wonders
            Pyramid - removed GAP instant, replaced with +50 GAP when you expend a GP, scaling era
            Pentagon - new ability - increases cap by 1; +2 air units in every city; 2 free jet fighters in city; +50% production of air units in city, air units from city gain +20 XP (yes description in-game says 25, typo, will fix later); spies better at unit disruption
        Promotions
            New promotions from Slinger, ChuKoNu (see below)
            Anti-Tank (100) promotion now 50%, called Anti-Tank rounds
            Removed anti-armor bonus from Formation
            Machine Gun penalty now -50% RCS v. Armored Units (was -25%)
            Ambush I now requires Shock/Drill III (was II)
        Units
            Mounted Ranged Units
                Reduced movement back to 4
                Reduced RCS slightly, but added a promotion element - rough terrain penalty now called Skirmisher Doctrine
                    Added: +50% RCS/CS in/when attacking FROM open terrain; -25% RCS/CS in/when attacking FROM Rough Terrain
                        (new promotion API element)
            Armored Units
                CS bumps, including Mechs
                All tanks start with Armor Plating I, Panzer gets I & II
        Civs
            Inca
                Slinger - logistics removed; now gets 'Concussive Strikes' promotion: unit ignores ZOC, ranged attacks inflict 'dazed' status on enemy units, reducing their CS by 15% for 5 turns
            China
                Chu-Ko-Nu - logistics removed; now gets 'Siege Volleys' promotion: units deals 5 damage to all adjacent targets to enemy unit (within range), +25% CS/RCS when adjacent to/in a city (any city)

Not savegame compatible. Online as of 1:00AM CST.

Link: https://mega.nz/#F!2Jdw3aQT!Z49gV7KAyMq6YiG5BD9jaA

Cheers,
G
 
Gazebo said:
Hey all,

New beta inbound. Attempting to compile and reboot sync after my absence. Balance changes are pretty mild, mainly cleanup from prior versions and some slight reversions/tweaks based on long-standing concerns.

Code: 
Changelog:

General
    Compilation of diplo fixes from Recursive
    Compilation of tactical AI/milsim fixes from Ilteroi
    Misc updates/bugfixes from others
    AI siege prowess greatly improved
    AI target seleciton improved
    Improvements to army composition and building priorities
    Improvements to AI CS targeting for diplo purposes
    Misc bugfixes
Balance
    General
        Cities
            Start weaker CS/Health-wise, scale a little slower (cities a little weaker overall)
            Slight reduction in empire needs penalty
        Tech
            Oil moved to Combustion
        Religion
            Pantheons
                Swapped Herbalist and Market for Renewal/Springtime
                    Herbalist bonus now +1 science/+2 faith; Market bonus now +2 food and science
        Wonders
            Pyramid - removed GAP instant, replaced with +50 GAP when you expend a GP, scaling era
            Pentagon - new ability - increases cap by 1; +2 air units in every city; 2 free jet fighters in city; +50% production of air units in city, air units from city gain +20 XP (yes description in-game says 25, typo, will fix later); spies better at unit disruption
        Promotions
            New promotions from Slinger, ChuKoNu (see below)
            Anti-Tank (100) promotion now 50%, called Anti-Tank rounds
            Removed anti-armor bonus from Formation
            Machine Gun penalty now -50% RCS v. Armored Units (was -25%)
            Ambush I now requires Shock/Drill III (was II)
        Units
            Mounted Ranged Units
                Reduced movement back to 4
                Reduced RCS slightly, but added a promotion element - rough terrain penalty now called Skirmisher Doctrine
                    Added: +50% RCS/CS in/when attacking FROM open terrain; -25% RCS/CS in/when attacking FROM Rough Terrain
                        (new promotion API element)
            Armored Units
                CS bumps, including Mechs
                All tanks start with Armor Plating I, Panzer gets I & II
        Civs
            Inca
                Slinger - logistics removed; now gets 'Concussive Strikes' promotion: unit ignores ZOC, ranged attacks inflict 'dazed' status on enemy units, reducing their CS by 15% for 5 turns
            China
                Chu-Ko-Nu - logistics removed; now gets 'Siege Volleys' promotion: units deals 5 damage to all adjacent targets to enemy unit (within range), +25% CS/RCS when adjacent to/in a city (any city)

Not savegame compatible. Online as of 1:00AM CST.

Link: https://mega.nz/#F!2Jdw3aQT!Z49gV7KAyMq6YiG5BD9jaA

Cheers,
G
Click to expand...

Hehe doesn't look that mild to me, some big (and good stuff in there!).

Honestly the only thing off hand that concerns me is the Armor Plating for tanks. Tanks got a CS buff, Machine Gun Nerf, and a defense buff....that's a lot, and I still don't think tanks were even underperforming before. I do think the math showed that machine guns did too much damage to tanks (its funny how much of a CS buff/nerf you have to do to really change the damage numbers)...but I don't think that tanks overall were that bad. So that's my one thing, I think all of the other tank changes were good, but the plating feels like a bit over the top. We will see how it goes in testing.
 
Stalker0 said:
I think all of the other tank changes were good, but the plating feels like a bit over the top.
Click to expand...
Only the Landship and Modern Armor get Armor Plating, however (with the exception of Germany's Tank replacement, which gets AP I & II), not the Tank or GDR (though it does carry over on upgrade); might be an oversight, but I think it's actually fine as it is now...will see in testing.

I like the new Pentagon, as well, and the other promotions changes! Skirmishers will be interesting to test and the Helicopter Gunship finally isn't OP anymore now that it got nerfed down to 4 movement points.
The one thing missing, IMO, is a buff to Formation, as was being discussed in the promotion balance thread, especially now that it lost anti-armor (which is a good change); pineappledan's suggestion of buffing it a bit (+15% [vs. +10% currently] def in open and +33% [vs. +25% currently] against mounted) and giving the first stage by default to the Spearman line (instead of their native +50% anti-mounted bonus) sounded pretty good!
 
civplayer33 said:
Helicopter Gunship finally isn't OP anymore now that it got nerfed down to 4 movement points.
Click to expand...

That's too little if you ask me. Helicopters should be more mobile than tanks for apparent reasons. Now they are LESS mobile.
 
Good, maybe after this version we will get a Christmas release. )
Thanks to all contributors and community.
 
newbeta2.png


My first meeting against enemy chariot archers. If they end in rough terrain they're fodder. They were doing 20-25 dmg to my spearmen/archers so look good on the offensive (I was afraid thar 4 RCS was rly too low, not really), but then despite unhappiness/anti-warmonger fervor, low level/health... archers rip them apart. Balanced I guess, I just wouldn't build them when in jungle/hills; floodplains should be except from the rough terrain penality imo though (not sure if that changed from the previous beta, just a random thought).

A note on AI: that chariot attacked my archer after coming out of fog of war and then decided to retreat on the jungle tile (red arrow), when it could have retreated to where it was coming from (blue arrow), a way better tile: could only be attacked from one hex, under city protection, protects a pillageable resource, and not a rough terrain death sentence. What made it prefer that suicidal move?
 
saamohod said:
Now they are LESS mobile.
Click to expand...
That's only true in an area where there are no rivers, forest, jungle, hill, desert or marsh, which would be a very artificial situation; in a normal situation they're still more mobile than tanks because they can hover over all terrain, which means tanks need to expend more movement points than them to follow and they can even cross mountains, "park" on coast or ice tiles or lakes where tanks can't follow at all.

Plus, they get two movement point promotions available from level 1...so no, they are definitely not less mobile than tanks.
 
I am curious about this new piramids. It od supposed to be used in tradition now? It would work with it's GP generation. But starting mining in tradition seems strange. Maybe if you have a lot of salt nearby?
 
I'm glad that we have a new version! Thanks G!

I will be making a separate thread for feedback on the diplomacy AI today, to avoid derailing the main thread; I'd be interested to hear any feedback you all have on diplo behavior there.

Looking forward to testing out these new combat changes, too. Cheers!
 
Gazebo said:
'Siege Volleys' promotion: units deals 5 damage to all adjacent targets to enemy unit (within range)
Click to expand...
... So what does this mean? How is this different from splash damage?
 
So it is effectively a higher cap on splash damage then? Chu Ko Nus can get up to 15 splash, all following the same rules?
 
Right. Archer units cant get splash. I forgot
 
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