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New Beta Version - November 25th (11/25)

Discussion in 'Community Patch Project' started by Gazebo, Nov 25, 2019.

  1. Coffee Monopoly

    Coffee Monopoly Warlord

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    I'm also seeing the Statecraft bias, but that's not all. Religion choices are skewed as well. From what I've seen, Faith of the Masses is ALWAYS chosen by the first AI to reform. And more often than not, Goddess of Love and Goddess of Fertility are the first pantheons picked.
     
  2. General_Drax

    General_Drax Warlord

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    Noticed the same and reported in other posts. You need to counter with Statecraft as well.
     
  3. Bromar1

    Bromar1 King

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    I think I saw that @CrazyG said that statecraft is the weakest of the 3 Renaissance policies. Interesting that it is not attractive until others take it
     
  4. ridjack

    ridjack King

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    Anyone else having issues with not getting any Oil after building Oil Wells? Did I miss a hotfix or something?

    EDIT: Oil is still showing as needing Biology even though the reveal and wells are on Combustion now.

     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2019
    PapaRockett likes this.
  5. CrazyG

    CrazyG Deity

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    I find a bit weaker, but it isn't bad by any means.

    To me, statecraft and diplomatic strategies seem worse if other players pursue them, because CS and votes are far more competitive. Let them fight each other, and focus on science or culture instead.
     
    Kim Dong Un and bigcat88 like this.
  6. Arbi

    Arbi Chieftain

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    Are ranged mounted units supposed to be 'a joke' inside cities on Hills now? This promotion so gamey and annoying..
     
  7. ASCII Guy

    ASCII Guy Chieftain

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    I don't think mounted range is in a good spot, but I'm more than welcome to experimentation in betas. See what sticks and what doesn't.
     
    vyyt and JamesNinelives like this.
  8. General_Drax

    General_Drax Warlord

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    Same. You cannot use it in full until you get Biology =\. Messed up my late game.
     
  9. andersw

    andersw Emperor

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    Statecraft is strong with Siam, Austria, Germany and Greece.
    But if mongols are in the game or too many of the above I'm not sure.
     
  10. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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    slingers have 8:c5rangedstrength:6:c5strength: (+1:c5rangedstrength: from archer)
    ChuKoNu have 19:c5rangedstrength:15:c5strength: (-1:c5rangedstrength: from archer)

    So it appears slinger stats changed with the patch, but ChKoNu weren't.

    Maybe with their slightly more defensive posture, and since, if you want to use their ability you have to be right up next to an enemy city, they could get 20:c5rangedstrength: to match Crossbows, and 17:c5strength:CS?
     
    JamesNinelives likes this.
  11. Arbi

    Arbi Chieftain

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    whatarethesepromotions.jpg
    What are these promotions if I may ask?
     
  12. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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    They are two morale promotions. They both give +10% CS I don’t know why there are two of them, it is possible you have 1 from heroic epic and 1 from orders, and that they stack

    I didn’t know there were 2 different yet identical morale promotions before this. Very astute.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2019
    JamesNinelives likes this.
  13. civplayer33

    civplayer33 King

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    Like pineappledan says they are both Morale, but one is from this Morale event choice in the War fervor event, I think; you don't get two Morale promos from Heroic Epic and Orders.
     
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  14. Stalker0

    Stalker0 Baller Magnus

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    So a few general comments as a log another couple of games.

    1) Skirmishers: I've already noted my concerns in the General Balance thread. One thing I will say is right now Cruissariers and Calvary are pretty strong, but in a weird way. They aren't just good damage units, they are surprisingly tanky in the open field. I don't run them anymore, I just let them sit in the open field because they both their RCS and CS numbers are high in open.

    2) Happiness: For the most part happiness is in a good place. I think early on it does its job, while it doesn't stop me from expanding per say I definitely feel I have to focus on infrastructure aggressively after my expansion phase or risk huge unhappiness. So I think it narrows the gap between an aggressive expander and someone going for earlier infrastructure. My only true "issue" with Happiness is that I have to do a lot of micromanaging with my growth. What I generally see in cities that are not my capital, is that I grow....and gain 3-5 unhappiness. So I turned off growth and get infrastructure back up, and get in a good place. Grow...hit a new pop, and do it again. There are certain points in the game when this is more common than others, but its common enough to be my general mindset. Effectively this has done two things:

    1) Weakens WLTKD: Generally once I get my first pop out of WLTKD, the big hit to growth from unhappiness wipes out the WLTKD bonus.
    2) Creates a large variance in food value. I generally go from wanting big food, to wanting no food, depending on my current local happiness. So I want to micromanage my food a lot to ensure I'm getting good value.

    Global wise happiness is good. I do find with my wide plays that I sometimes need to do a round of public works building in several cities (somewhat dependent on religious buildings and available luxuries), but overall I can generally keep it over 50% when I'm bulding up, over 34% when I'm aggressive....and it only goes below them when I'm being "greedy"....and it properly reigns me in.

    3) Agribusiness: I think the recent change was good. Its a nice solid building now. I've got encampments as Shoshone, and comparing a water farm to my encampments, I am seeing:
    Farm: 8 F, 4 P, 3 G
    Encampment: 4 F, 3 P, 1 S, 2 C

    So ultimately while the farm gives me more yields, my encampments are giving me better yields, and I think they are worth keeping around. So the balance feels reasonable.

    4) City Changes: I haven't noticed much of a difference here to be honest, will need to keep watching.

    5) Naval City Sieges: I feel that the AI is pretty dumb when it comes to naval sieges. It tends to build a lot of melee ships, and it just parks them outside of your cities without doing much. Here is one example where the ships are taking damage from my encampments and just sitting there.

    upload_2019-12-1_14-17-35.png

    The AI is great about targeting cities that are missing castles and/or garrisons...but if you have a decent city setup it doesn't seem to know what to do.

    6) Lancers: So hearing complaints about the lancer I really tried to focus in on this unit and watch it in action. While I think lancers are meant to take a back seat in this era...I do agree they are a little too weak. I think there biggest use is against mass musketmen without proper melee support, but that's a rare occurrence I find with the AI. So a +1-2 CS bump is likely in order.

    7) Quality of Life Request: Is it possible to short trade routes by their duration? When I'm going into my corporation spread phase or late game Tourism spread the time to complete the TR is my biggest factor, so it would be great to have that as a feature.

    8) Giorgio Armani: One thing I've noticed is that the +10% culture from a TR to an existing franchise is incredibly good. Its one of the few corporations where I stop bothering with franchises, if I stack those TRs from my capital to some franchises I bag more culture than if I gain more franchises.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2019
  15. civplayer33

    civplayer33 King

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    You may want to check out this mod (the linked post contains the update I made for it), which allows you to do all kinds of sorting and now shows corporation info and lets you send the currently selected Trade Unit from that window as well, among other things.
     
    JamesNinelives likes this.
  16. Stalker0

    Stalker0 Baller Magnus

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    A shoutout for the AI, excellent use of paratroopers in this instance. Dropped 5 at once to start the war, and just wrecked up the city.

    upload_2019-12-1_16-0-15.png
     
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  17. TheUnholyPotato

    TheUnholyPotato Warlord

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    @Stalker0, amusingly, I've seen complaints about the same thing: para spam being too pervasive.

    It does get around a lot of the shortcomings of the AI. Just teleport units to the destination.
     
  18. Recursive

    Recursive Covets Lands That You Currently Own Moderator

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    Paratrooper spam was reduced in this beta.

    Upcoming diplomacy changes for next version:
    Code:
    - Fixed some bugs, simplified some code
    
    - Fixed election rigging giving an opinion penalty
    
    - Fixed excessive diplo penalty for plundering internal trade routes
    
    - Hopefully fixed buggy coop war counter
    
    - Separated values for spy stealing, trade route plundering, plotting against the AI, and City-State coups from each other; these penalties will now disappear over time
    
    - Plotting penalty now also attainable by humans, replaces recent assist penalty for being caught in coop war planning/third party war bribery
    (although getting caught plotting will still remove any recent assist bonus)
    
    - Added some opinion weight defines to SQL files, including two that Firaxis apparently forgot to add in (for easier modding)
    
    - AI's memory of demands made will be reset after 2x deal duration, provided you don't make more demands during this time; total penalty reduces by half after one deal duration
    
    - Reduced opinion penalties for trade route plundering & City-State coups to more reasonable amounts
    
    - Plundering a trade route will now count against killing/capturing civilians, including if at war (temporary penalty, decreasing with era)
    
    - AI logic improved for intrigue sharing & resultant approach estimates
    
    - AI should track promises better (also removed dumb vanilla mechanic where you had to convert at least 2-5 cities to get AI's attention)
    
    - Bumped up opinion weight for global military promise broken penalty to 20 (was 15)
    
    - Re-added global penalty for breaking a promise not to conquer a protected City-State (also 20)
    
    - Added large opinion bonus of 80 for liberating a player's capital; unlike regular liberation, this one will not be removed until you declare war or capture a city;
    does not stack with regular liberation bonus, but should provide an extra incentive for liberation wars, and the liberated AI will be nicer to you
    
    - You will no longer obtain Victory Block penalties if AI's Opinion of you is Friend or above (was Ally)
    
    - Share opinion requests will now provide DECEPTIVE/WAR approach information if Opinion is Friend+ (updated every turn; requires 70+ good opinion)
    and approach is FRIENDLY (this is close to Putmalk's original intention; because VP raised the Opinion threshold for Ally, you would almost never get accurate
    information as intended); makes them more useful, too
    
    - Opinion penalty for bullying City-States will no longer stack with penalties for attacking/killing them
    
    You can discuss diplomacy in the dedicated thread: https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/vox-populi-diplomacy-feedback.652134/
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2019
  19. TranceBlossom

    TranceBlossom Warlord

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    I think the real world needs this bugfix too :shifty:

    This is great, but is there much benefit to these What do you think of...? requests? I almost never use them...
     
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  20. Recursive

    Recursive Covets Lands That You Currently Own Moderator

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    Heh, agreed!

    It can reveal deception and war plans now, so there's that. :)
     
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