New Beta Version - October 23rd (10-23)

[Gazebo]

Hey all,

New beta inbound. There have been enough bigger bugfixes for newer code in this one that I'd like to beta test it for a bit before committing to a new full release.

AI
    Fixes for tactical AI behavior and aggression, some major performance improvements for tactical AI
    AI citizen placement improvements
    Deal AI improvements, specifically for voting logic
    Refined Diplo AI a bit for deal logic with other players
    AI no longer gets production bonuses towards civilian units, nor an era bonus towards world wonders

UI
    Added WLTKD resource trigger info to trade panel for luxury trade info   

Balance

Espionage
    Rigging Elections can level up spies; bonus influence now scales exponentially with era
   
Trade
    Changed Science/Culture from CS routes to Ally only, dropped base valuation by 1
   
Buildings
    Fixed some missing building dependencies
    Coal Refinery now a Refinery - grants +1 iron and coal (was +3 coal)
    Agribusiness - revamped; now +3 Gold/Production on all Farms and Pastures (removed food); Food Process in city is 15% more efficient at converting hammers to production (and 15% more effective at combating distress)
    Factory - bumped to +2p per Factory (was +1)
    Internal Trade Route buff buildings:
        Overall - moved bonuses a little bit earlier to help make them a little more competitive
        Market/Bazaar - removed +2 food
        Lighthouse/Runestone now +4/+6 food from ITR
            Giving coastal cities an early utility bump will be good for balance
        Workshop ITR production bumped to +4
        Stable/Ducal Stable now +2/+4 ITR production
            Niche building given a bit of life
        Windmill - now +6 food for ITR
        Removed ITR food from Stockyard
        Removed ITR production from Factory
   
Units
    Removed DFPs from paratroopers/special forces/XCOM units
    Removed resource requirement for naval melee units
    Carrier now requires Aluminum (was Iron)  
    Naval Units weaker as garrisons, fixed quirk in code (per @ilteroi)

Online as of 11:00PM CST. Not savegame compatible.

Link: https://mega.nz/#F!2Jdw3aQT!Z49gV7KAyMq6YiG5BD9jaA

Cheers,
G

 

[ryanmusante]

Since the naval units do not count as garrison, what happens if they are placed in the coastal city?

 

[Zuizgond]

Looks promising. Thanks

 

[BiteInTheMark]

UI Added WLTKD resource trigger info to trade panel for luxury trade info

?
Would it be possible to give additional informations about luxuries in the tradepanel or diplo screen for the Netherlands? It's always annoying to permanently check which luxuries I've already importing or exporting (and triggering the UA)

The espionage change will probably make things only worse. Nothing will change that super high influence CS will appear in the game. Why not simply reduce the impact of missions and diplomats?

Do I see it right, that non-coastal cities does still have the same amount of Food ITR then before, and that the earliest non-coastal Food-ITR buff is now the windmill?
That's only shuffling the mechanic around at the buildings but didn't touch the core problem.

The changes to the naval units sounds pretty good.

 

[ilteroi]

Since the naval units do not count as garrison, what happens if they are placed in the coastal city?

the note is misleading. naval units are just weaker as garrisons. but the minimum city cs check used their full strength, which was inconsistent. that has been corrected.

 

[LifeOfBrian]

Looks like a good version, thanks!

Has anything replaced the food bonus to ITR that has been removed from marekts/bazaars?

 

[PapaRockett]

> Rigging elections levels up spies

Elizabeth intensifies

 

[BiteInTheMark]

OK, next Game will be again India.....
Harappan Reservoir + Agribusiness + Cathedral + Imperialism + Wind Plant = Farm does BOOMSHAKALAKA BOOMSHAKALAKA

+7+9+8+4 by a ***** farm

 

[azum4roll]

Is there a reason to work mines after building the new agribusiness?

 

[ridjack]

I'm definitely glad to see the iron requirements being relaxed. Iron was starting to feel way too precious with all the ships AND the late game siege units needing them.

 

[General_Drax]

Now Agribusiness worth building. It did cost a leg and 2 horses for ... fighting more unhappinness due to growth.

" AI no longer gets production bonuses towards civilian units, nor an era bonus towards world wonders" + Rigging elections for CS could really save my playthrough right now. Sadly Austria is unstoppable. I'll lose and grab the new version.

Nice update !

 

[Zuizgond]

+3p on farm with agribusiness seems a bit too much. Would reduce it to +2p.

Also just started a game with Poland but didn't get a free policy when entering Medieval era. Is this intended or a bug?

 

[Moi Magnus]

Also just started a game with Poland but didn't get a free policy when entering Medieval era. Is this intended or a bug?

In English, "every other Era" is synonymous with "once every two Eras", so Classical, Renaissance, ...
[But you're not alone to learn this expression through Vox Populi.]

 

[pineappledan]

I really don’t think this change to agribusiness is the right direction. The problem isn’t the wrong types of yields on farms, the problem is additional yields on farms at all.

this change means farms and pastures are basically GP tiles. How do you balance mines, lumber mills against this absurd yield Bath now? How is Order and Industries’ bonuses to mines/mills supposed to stack against Imperialism/Freedoms’ boosts to a plainly better improvement?

the two latest patches have put too many yields on the board in entirely too specific arrangements. With wind plant putting 12 yields on every plains/grassland tile, how is any CiV with a desert or tundra or mildly hilly capital supposed to compete in a mildly close late game? Against a civ that can get a combined imperialism/wind plant/agribusiness bonus of 2847 on every grass farm?

this also means that civs with UIs that compete with farms for space can throw their UI in The dumpster after Industrial. Shoshone encampment and Hunnic Eki are all worse than a late game farm

 

[pineappledan]

Harappan Reservoir + Agribusiness + Cathedral + Imperialism + Wind Plant = Farm does
+7+9+8+4 by a ***** farm

Problem: late game plants are too inflexible and feel like geographic determinism
Solution: literally double-down by doubling the yields without changing any of the tile types.

problem: agribusiness is too niche, but farms are otherwise balanced
Solution: break farms

I can’t... what?

 

[BiteInTheMark]

I really don’t think this change to agribusiness is the right direction. The problem isn’t the wrong types of yields on farms, the problem is additional yields on farms at all.

this change means farms and pastures are basically GP tiles. How do you balance mines, lumber mills against this absurd yield Bath now? How is Order and Industries’ bonuses to mines/mills supposed to stack against Imperialism/Freedoms’ boosts to a plainly better improvement?

the two latest patches have put too many yields on the board in entirely too specific arrangements. With wind plant putting 12 yields on every plains/grassland tile, how is any CiV with a desert or tundra or mildly hilly capital supposed to compete in a mildly close late game? Against a civ that can get a combined imperialism/wind plant/agribusiness bonus of 2847 on every farm?

this also means that civs with UIs that compete with farms for space can throw their UI in The dumpster after Industrial. Shoshone encampment and Hunnic Eki are all worse than a late game farm

Its this tendency to always go from one extreme to another, which will lead to a never ending story. Bye bye gold status.

A lot of people have suggested good and creative ideas, how to make Agribusiness interesting. A yield gangbang party for farms wasn't one of those. The reason behind the doubling of wind plant / hydro plant yields is also out of my understanding. Normal buildings don't have to be game changer.

Like pineappledan said, this declassifies most of the UI of civs.

 

[Zuizgond]

In English, "every other Era" is synonymous with "once every two Eras", so Classical, Renaissance, ...
[But you're not alone to learn this expression through Vox Populi.]

Thanks

 

[ridjack]

Problem: late game plants are too inflexible and feel like geographic determinism
Solution: literally double-down by doubling the yields without changing any of the tile types.

problem: agribusiness is too niche, but farms are otherwise balanced
Solution: break farms

I can’t... what?

Its this tendency to always go from one extreme to another, which will lead to a never ending story. Bye bye gold status.

A lot of people have suggested good and creative ideas, how to make Agribusiness interesting. A yield gangbang party for farms wasn't one of those. The reason behind the doubling of wind plant / hydro plant yields is also out of my understanding. Normal buildings don't have to be game changer.

Like pineappledan said, this declassifies most of the UI of civs.

As noted elsewhere, these are beta releases intended to push extremes of change. If you're looking for a 'balanced normal game' plan the current stable release.

G

 

[Gazebo]

Problem: late game plants are too inflexible and feel like geographic determinism
Solution: literally double-down by doubling the yields without changing any of the tile types.

problem: agribusiness is too niche, but farms are otherwise balanced
Solution: break farms

I can’t... what?

Farms go largely unworked by the late game, at least by the AI.

Power plants aren’t creating any issues - I know you have a mod mod you prefer, but that doesn’t mean the beta versions are wrong. Besides, you should be happy, I added that process modifier code you asked for a while back.

G

 

[ridjack]

Farms go largely unworked by the late game, at least by the AI.

G

Is this actually a problem, though? They go unworked by me, too - mostly because they get deleted and replaced by villages, GPTIs, unique improvements and the like. Farms have always been the absolute bottom-tier improvement in my eyes, but they do mostly do the one thing they need to do, which is get more food when you need it.

I don't actually have an opinion on this so far, just a bit of Devil's Advocacy.