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New Beta Version - October 23rd (10-23)

Discussion in 'Community Patch Project' started by Gazebo, Oct 24, 2019.

  1. PapaRockett

    PapaRockett Prince

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    Did something change with ideology selection logic? In this game all the "peaceful" civs have chosen Autocracy. Russia and Songhai chose Freedom. Seems odd
     
  2. ridjack

    ridjack King

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    I'd love to see this, so long as it doesn't come with any shifts to the overall happiness system. Happiness is finally in a really good place overall, IMO, and I'd hate to see that change.

    If increasing Tradition's local happiness isn't an option, is it possible/desirable to reduce the penalties Tradition gets from unhappiness in non-capital cities? I know I'm personally not bothered if my Tradition satellite cities aren't really growing, so long as they can produce my military in a reasonable timeframe. Could we tweak things so that they still suffer the growth penalty normally, but get a reduction in the production penalties?
     
  3. ridjack

    ridjack King

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    Just happens sometimes. I've got a game right now with Brazil going Authority and France taking Tradition. I've personally played a game where I went Progress with Korea; sometimes terrain and circumstances make your civ more than your kit.
     
    JamesNinelives and Bromar1 like this.
  4. Sekisetsu

    Sekisetsu Chieftain

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    Is it normal, that battleships don't require ressources? First time I built them and I think, it is a bit wierd.
     
    JamesNinelives likes this.
  5. Kim Dong Un

    Kim Dong Un The One & Unly Supporter

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    With regards to Tradition smileys, even if you're experiencing some local unhappiness in secondary cities, which is pretty much intended, I don't know how that's really throwing off your overall happiness enough to really be a huge factor.

    Go look at all the pics in my thread from yesterday and you'll see not a single one has happy under 100% (granted the one is played with Venice).

    Here's some "Most Stable Nations in History" from my recent Tradition Maya game (there was lots of worldwide war this game, and still...):
    Spoiler :
    Screenshot (30).png

    Spoiler :
    Screenshot (38).png

    Spoiler :
    Screenshot (43).png

    Spoiler :
    Screenshot (44).png
     
  6. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch

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    No. Emphatically no. Way too complicated.

    G
     
  7. ridjack

    ridjack King

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    @Gazebo @ilteroi @HeathcliffWarriors I'm still seeing completely irrational backstabs, as reported in this bug report that was closed without explanation after I provided saves and logs.

    China asked for friendship, and then some handful of turns later (not certain exactly how many, but I think less than five and definitely less than ten) Denounced seemingly out of the blue.

    Spoiler :
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2019
  8. Stalker0

    Stalker0 Baller Magnus

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    As noting before, my Global Happiness is great, no problems there. Mainly it just means my secondary cities have trouble producing military units and growing, unless I just shut off growth entirely.
     
  9. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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    @Gazebo, question about the Building_YieldFromProcessModifier.

    The CoreTableAdditions documentation says:
    "<!-- Allows you to define a yield modifier for a process (like Research) that increases your conversion rate. -->"

    The Text for Stockyard says
    "The Farming Process is 15% more effective at converting :c5production: Production and reducing :c5unhappy: Distress."

    Am I to conclude, then, that the Farming process has gone from (1:c5production: ==> 0.25:c5food:) to (1:c5production: ==> 0.2875:c5food:) ?
    0.15 * 0.25 = +3.75% bonus conversion rate?

    A 15% modifier seems rather timid, especially for an unpopular process like Farming. A 20% increase in conversion rate is only a 5% increase in overall conversion. I’m probably misinterpreting the help text/documentation, a 15% could mean (0.25 + 0.15 = 40%), but then the documentation and help text could be reworded to be less open to interpretation.

    If the Agribusiness does in fact increase the Process from 25%:c5production: conversion to 40%:c5production:, perhaps this help text would be more clear?

    "The Farming Process converts 15% more :c5production: Production into :c5food: Food."

    EDIT: there is a mod that adds more processes, :c5faith:/:c5goldenage:/:tourism:. Are all yield types available to YieldfromProcessModifier, or would adding a yieldType with no process in base VP cause an error?
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2019
  10. Stalker0

    Stalker0 Baller Magnus

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    Looking at it deeper, Religious Unrest seems to be an X factor here. Currently a full 25% of my unhappiness comes from religious unrest. I have temples and the like, but with a TALL civ trying to enhance my religion, I didn't have any faith to spare to shore up my followers in my city. Hence the unhappiness. And that was against a lightly converting Germany, if it had been a Mayan or Spain it likely would have been much worse.
     
  11. Stalker0

    Stalker0 Baller Magnus

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    I would also like to throw in another increase in the "Missed a Wonder" concession culture prize. So after working on Notre Dame for 10 turns of production, I lost it on the last turn (of course I did). My concession was 216 culture, about 1.2 turns worth right now. Again, I know its a concession prize, but I think it can scale up a bit better than that. Give me a few turns of culture at least!
     
  12. Lee Saxon

    Lee Saxon Chieftain

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    Not sure why people are worried about global happiness? A few builds ago I thought it was too challenging for a while, but right now I don't think it's a struggle to keep the empire happy. Maybe even a bit too easy. But I'm a Tall player, maybe the issue is for Wide?

    Oh God, why? They already kick my ass. :lol:
     
    vyyt and Revolutionist_8 like this.
  13. HeathcliffWarriors

    HeathcliffWarriors Prince

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    In general, when a new version is released, old issues are closed. However, something was actually done: the AI's willingness to enter third party wars was reduced, as that was thought to be the cause of the backstabbing you described.

    Backstabbing by denouncing is controlled entirely by the diplo AI. China has a very high DECEPTIVE bias, which might explain the willingness to backstab even a friend, and looking at that list of opinion modifiers, they're mad at you for:
    - Stealing their City-State allies;
    - Being too far in the lead (Victory Block level of STRONG);
    - Befriending one of their enemies;
    - Making a World Congress proposal they dislike.

    And you have only a few weak positive modifiers, so they have reason to be mad at you. This isn't a bug, China is just naturally DECEPTIVE and prone to backstabbing.

    AI leaders will only denounce a friend if they have the following randomized flavors:
    - Meanness greater than 8;
    - DenounceWillingness greater than 8;
    - Loyalty of less than 3.

    Looks like they're just mean and untrustworthy to have as a friend.

    The text key is one of the generic "denouncing a friend" text keys, so it doesn't offer much insight as to the reason...but if you're curious, this is how the AI decides whether to backstab a friend:
    Code:
    CvDiplomacyAI::IsDenounceFriendAcceptable
    We/our = the AI
    The friend = the friend they're denouncing
    
    1. Must have Meanness > 8, DenounceWillingness > 8, Loyalty < 3 to run this function.
    
    AI will follow the following steps in order. If "true" is returned, they will denounce. If "false" is returned, they will not denounce, but once a value is returned, they will not follow the next steps.
    
    2. If our approach towards the friend is HOSTILE (or WAR with a HOSTILE War Face), we're willing to denounce (return true).
    
    3. If our opinion towards the friend is ENEMY or worse, we're willing to denounce (return true). If it's FAVORABLE or better, we're not (return false).
    
    4. If the friend is our master or vassal, we're not willing to denounce (return false).
    
    5. Base chance = 10 + the AI's loyalty flavor.
    - If our opinion of the friend is COMPETITOR, subtract the AI's loyalty flavor from the base chance.
    - If the friend has a Warmonger Threat of SEVERE or worse, subtract the AI's warmonger hatred flavor from the base chance.
    - If we have a Victory Block Level towards them of STRONG or worse, subtract the AI's victory competitiveness flavor from the base chance.
    - If we have a Victory Dispute Level towards them of STRONG or worse, subtract the AI's victory competitiveness flavor from the base chance.
    - If we're going for a Domination Victory, the friend's military strength compared to us is POOR or worse, and their proximity is at least CLOSE, subtract the AI's meanness flavor from the base chance.
    
    6. Look at the "DoF type" we have with the friend. Each time a DoF is made with the same friend, it raises the "DoF type" by one. The order from lowest to highest is:
    - Untrustworthy (set to this after denouncing, ending a DoF in the Discuss screen, or going to war; this is the lowest level)
    - New (this is where it is when you first meet a player)
    - Friends
    - Allies
    - Battle Brothers
    
    Note: There is one exception to the "raise by one" rule; if you complete a DoF that was made at the Untrustworthy level, it will be set to Friends, not New.
    
    If the DoF type is Battle Brothers, return false.
    If the DoF type is Allies, add 5 to the base chance.
    If the DoF type is Friends, add 2 to the base chance.
    
    7. If the base chance is less than or equal to 0, return true. Otherwise, return false.
    
    A performance improvement means an optimization of the game code that makes the game run better, so it largely benefits you, not the army of Aztec Jaguars seething on your borders as they sharpen their weapons.

    Man, listen to them seethe...;)

    But your point is entirely valid in terms of the improvements to the AI that make them smarter, haha.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2019
    Maxxim69, Erikose, Lee Saxon and 4 others like this.
  14. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch

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    You must use whatever yield type is associated with the process. So food for farming, gold for wealth, etc.

    Modifier is additive to whatever % the base process modifies by. So '15% more effective' = 25% of production to food -> 40% production of food.

    G
     
  15. HeathcliffWarriors

    HeathcliffWarriors Prince

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    I'll add a check to make sure the AI doesn't befriend anyone they're willing to denounce at the time of making friendship, but it's entirely possible for their view on this to change between turns.
     
  16. ridjack

    ridjack King

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    This is what was bothering me; thanks.
     
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  17. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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    Understood. I was more asking if adding because I intend to add a building to a mod that boosts all processes equally. If I were to add 'YIELD_FAITH' to the process modifier, would that cause an error?
     
  18. Rekk

    Rekk King

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    It doesn't matter if your global happiness is good enough; local unhappiness still keeps cities from growing, and this is what is bothering @Stalker0 when it comes to Tradition satellite cities.
     
  19. Bromar1

    Bromar1 King

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    The only way I can keep my tradition cities happy is by founding a religion and going double buildings. Usually will get me about -2 or -3 unhappiness per city. It does mean less missionary spam unfortunately
     
  20. CrazyG

    CrazyG Deity

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    Could tradition's source go to the global pool?
     
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