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New Beta Version - October 23rd (10-23)

Discussion in 'Community Patch Project' started by Gazebo, Oct 24, 2019.

  1. Stalker0

    Stalker0 Baller Magnus

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    Alright, hold on everyone! First, Dio's spread belief is much weaker than Unis...but it does have better yields imo, so I think they are comparable.

    Second, my post was more my own bragging rights (as it was something I had never done before), but it was an incredibly expensive faith operation. Compared to just getting more GP, was it worth it? I actually don't think so, and I don't think the beliefs need a nerf. Remember, this particular game was one where I completely steamrolled the AI, I had almost double the score of the next AI. I think in more comparable circumstances I would never have pulled this off.

    On spies...again I think the new mechanic is fine just a little bit too strong. A small reduction in the influence boost is all it needs.

    Bite...keep in mind that the AI prod bonuses to diplo units was removed recently. That has led to a pretty significant reduction in how high the influence of various CS has gotten, so I feel that you already got your wish there.
     
    JamesNinelives likes this.
  2. 4CV

    4CV Warlord

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    Probably, a skilled player will find it very boring to repeat this 'exploit' again and again. If not, I still see no need to change it for everybody. I love such freak civs. And, why would you develop additional civ mods, if they all were almost equal?
    If we try to take away everything that a human player can use better than the AI, what will remain in the game?
     
    Maxxim69 likes this.
  3. andersw

    andersw King

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    Well it got nerfed to the ground compared to how it worked previously, the requirements for synergy is very awkward for early-midgame wars with opposite side techs, runestone requirement, iron requirement and metalcasting is not something gained fast.
    If I want to keep the cities I take I tend to end up with a ton of scorched land, more than usual.
    Still the abilities are not useless and the berserker is strong, albeit melee.
    +40% on a pillaged coastal tile is of course very good if available, is that on both offense and defense (says +combat strength)?
    Otherwise its the amphibious and +1 move that is most impactful when I've used them.
    The ability to attack a city from water tile isnt bad either but its very situational.
     
  4. ASCII Guy

    ASCII Guy Chieftain

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    I am very happy with the changes to naval strategic resource requirements as well as the change to the coal refinery. On the old beta I was playing a game as Poland without strategic balance and it was difficult to keep the navy running.
     
    JamesNinelives likes this.
  5. civplayer33

    civplayer33 King

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    Is the following intentional?:
    AIStartingDefenseUnits is "1" from Settler to Emperor; on Emperor during testing I see that AI starts with a warrior and a pathfinder, so the AIStartingDefenseUnits seems to give a warrior and not second pathfinder. I am fine with the AI not getting an additional pathfinder but shouldn't this scale off of difficulty a bit more? Immortal and Deity have the value at 2, but IMO Settler - Warlord could do with a value of 0, since there are occasionally still people complaining that the low difficulties are hard...this would mitigate that, at least a bit.
     
  6. Dimmy

    Dimmy Chieftain

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    Hey guys, I know it is not really the right topic to rise this concern but I know it will be read here: World maps value are ridiculous and I can take advantage / rape even hostile civs with the value. Should be fixed! Cheers.
     
    Kim Dong Un likes this.
  7. HeathcliffWarriors

    HeathcliffWarriors King

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    Intentional. I presume it's to prevent turn 0 PTPs with City-States, and so that the AI's capital gets a garrison to defend from Barbs.

    It has very little to no impact on difficulty, at least in my experience.
     
    JamesNinelives likes this.
  8. azum4roll

    azum4roll Prince

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    I remove all starting units from the AI and they always do fine. City states don't use this value.
     
  9. civplayer33

    civplayer33 King

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    CS have their own value, though: "StartingMinorDefenseUnits", but for them the value actually does scale with greater range and is even 0 for the lowest two difficulties...
    In my current game there are lots of very early PTP as well and many of them are broken again quite quickly, so I'm not sure this is really preventing any of the sort; I also think that your statement WRT difficulty is a bit self-contradictory: if the impact to difficulty is very low to none then the AI is not affected by the change and thus it may as well be dropped; if this is not so, however, then dropping the Warrior draws significant resources from the AI (like having to produce a Warrior for several turns without their Production bonuses on low difficulty and not having an extra unit from the start to pop goody huts with), which makes their start a bit slower and thus should make them weaker compared to the player, which does affect difficulty.

    Now, this is not a huge deal, but it seems like Settler and Chieftain, at least, should boost the AI WRT the player as little as possible.
     
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  10. HeathcliffWarriors

    HeathcliffWarriors King

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    On Settler, AI has a 10% Production penalty on everything they build, no periodic yield bonuses, and the player gets Gold maintenance discounts and extra Happiness. Personally I don't feel it's necessary, but maybe others feel differently. :)
     
  11. civplayer33

    civplayer33 King

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    I don't mean to be a nag, but here again one can say: if it's insignificant, why not drop it and if it isn't and the goal is to minimize AI bonuses on the lowest difficulties (which your examples demonstrate) then why keep this bonus around?
    Anyway, I just thought I'd mention it because the inconsistency bugged me...
     
  12. ProCatGamer

    ProCatGamer Chieftain

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    Just notice that Battleships does not have any resource requirement now?
    Is there a reason for that change?
     
  13. JamesNinelives

    JamesNinelives Prince

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    That sounds like a bug to me, but I have been wrong before :|. Haven't got that far in my games yet.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2019
  14. JamesNinelives

    JamesNinelives Prince

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    I just played another game on this patch, up to the end of the Renaissance Era. A could of things that I noticed/learned:

    1) The AI uses great engineers to boost wonders, and I suspect they use spies to track if other plays are building the same wonder. My diplomat informed me that the Maya were building the Porcelain Tower in their capital, a few turns after I started building it in my capital. I was already ahead, but I decided to trade some cash to rush the wonder just in case. Then I completed two city state quests to earn production in my capital (about 500 hammers each). Now the production time is only 1 turn. Click end turn. 'The Maya have built the Porcelain Tower'. F*ck. I didn't even get the production from those city-state quests towards what I was building next, everything I had invested it was 'converted' into 500 culture a.k.a. 1 turn's worth at that point in my game.

    2) I had my only artwork stolen because I had forgot to move it to my capital. Maybe it's just a coincidence, but I'm getting the impression that the AIs espionage game is stronger overall with higher level spies. I also focused on getting great works early this game so that I could put them up for trade as soon as possible and hopefully make use of the Oxford University bonus from having foreign works of writing. No such luck. I spies on the Maya and I can see they have two great works of writing in an ampitheatre in their capital, which is probably why they don't want to trade - they're being used. We'd both get a better bonus from having traded though. I have to say not being able to do that is a bit of a bummer.

    Sorry this feedback is all critical/negative. Not feeling great IRL at the moment. Hope you are all well.
     
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  15. Kim Dong Un

    Kim Dong Un The One & Unly Supporter

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    Yeah, that's a tough one, but they can be vewy vewy shneaky! I've seen plenty of instances where AI basically decide they're going to insta-build a wonder and completely screw you over, and other times where they will back off and concede; I think it's just situational. I personally use the "Wonder Race" mod (forgot to mention previously in another thread that it's the only other "cheat" mod I use) for two main reasons, one of which others and yourself have already pointed out in that the culture received is so trivial on a loss relative to how many hammers/gold you've used; I get it, but it still sucks. The other reason being the player will always lose a tie-breaker to the AI if both finishing wonders on the same turn. So since I technically have to beat the AI by a turn, and will essentially get nothing if I lose out, I compromise for now by using the mod.

    I had a recent Egypt game where multiple AI stole unique burial tomb artifacts shortly after spies came out. It was a definite ouch... Although the AI trade willingness for GWorks was just reduced, it's made theming bonuses a lot harder. Maybe we can nudge it back up a tick?

    Feel better, fella. :hug:

    Also, don't worry, the majority of feedback here (especially mine) is critical/negative, simply because VP is so great and we love it so much that we have to excessively nitpick about the finer details. I assume Zebo has some pretty thick skin by this point through his profession and after having dealt with the likes of Bite, PDan, myself and others over the years :lol:.
     
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  16. LifeOfBrian

    LifeOfBrian Warlord

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    Can you expand on that? Thanks.
     
  17. Kim Dong Un

    Kim Dong Un The One & Unly Supporter

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    If both you and the AI have 1 turn remaining to build a wonder, they get the tie-breaker, so you lose the wonder race, i.e., you have to beat them to it, but they only have to tie you.

    Let's say I only needed 20 more hammers to build Terracotta, but the AI needs 30 (for the sake of this example, both cities have an equal output of hammers per turn of 50). Even though we will both finish on the next turn, I will have technically out hammered them to the wonder, but they will be the ones to receive it. Using the mod has allowed me to realize this behaviour over the years, as it's something that's always annoyed me. I'm almost positive there are no situations (to my knowledge) where you will get the wonder over the AI in the case of a "tie".
     
  18. Flaku

    Flaku Chieftain

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    I think three is no tie-breaking, but just production is added at the start of civilisation's turn, so if it is your turn and you need 1 more hammer, that means your wonder willa be ready at the start of your next turn, but if AI also have 1 hammer left, it mens the AI will be faster, as start of it's turn will be faster than start of your next turn. Having this in mind, if it is turn 100, and you have one hammer missing, that means you will finish wonder on turn 101, but if 1 hammer od missing for the AI, that means it it will finish the wonder on turn 100 as it's hammer for turn 100 were not calculated yet. If you both would finish the wonder on turn 100, you would win as human player has the first move. Am I right?
     
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  19. SupTo

    SupTo Chieftain

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    If you and an ai both have one turn left the ai gets it because of the turn order. So, if you both have one turn, the ai still beats you to the wonder since their turn is about to begin

    Edit: beaten to it
     
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  20. HeathcliffWarriors

    HeathcliffWarriors King

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    The AI gets an A/B/C Production bonus to all cities every so often when it triggers important events. I don't believe it's programmed to exploit this, but it can get an instant yield hammer bonus towards Wonders this way, in addition to the usual City-State or other sources.

    Their era bonus to Wonders, World Congress projects and certain projects (Apollo/Manhattan) has been removed as of this patch, though, and as of the next version they will no longer get a base discount on those two projects either.
     
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