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New Beta Version - September 15th (9-15)

Discussion in 'Community Patch Project' started by Gazebo, Sep 16, 2017.

  1. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    Hey all,

    New beta version inbound. 90% bugfixes, with a little bit of balance based on feedback. Curious to see if MP fixes work. Will upgrade to official new version if so.

    Link:
    https://mega.nz/#!6FkTzTTY!VJbBAzK6Ze3rPa25ydPlzBlToZ1EfSOEibD_AxyDiKw

    Not savegame compatible.

    G
     
  2. doublex55

    doublex55 Prince

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    I like the change to make artistry help all great people and tradition only affect the capital.

    I also like that the hapiness is dependent on using your culture specialists to make great works, although it might kick in a bit late.

    Maybe missionary spam is something to be worried about with heritage?
     
  3. GodDamnItAlexander

    GodDamnItAlexander Warlord

    Joined:
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    Gonna test stonehenge again.
    Also new pilum is a massive nerf to Rome on quick.
    EDIT
    Tested 7 games, I think that's enough.
    My process:
    1) When settling cap settle on woods if possible. Rush pottery (then animal husbandry)
    2) Work farming process until I hit 3 pop, then stonehenge.
    3) Use gold to buy a tile if it will make a difference
    4) Min/max the tiles I work to get extra production (at the cost of food), so for example I would have a food surplus for 2 turns, then a deficit for the next 2.
    5/7 games I managed to snatch it.

    Also maybe you should get a free monument instead of a free council. You're already way behind everyone in terms of production and the extra science doesn't help with that. My 2 cents.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2017
  4. randomnub

    randomnub Prince

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    Heritage smells of abusable by players: just checked a deity game in this patch where I unlocked the 10th policy by the time AIs are producing 20/30 Tourism/turn, and going by the bottom of the tech tree I didn't unlock pioneers yet. That means every city is able to produce a settler in 1-3 turns, and then just delete it. ~70 turns at this rate and I'd be influential with everybody, just out of that: from 21 T/t to ~500 T/t, I'd unlock pioneers by then but can use some other cheap human trick like making fresh trade units and keep moving them through a barbarian filled area. Or just wait for archeologists, 200 production per 100 tourism seems a good investment tbh.

    You basically introduced a Tourism process: that wouldn't be a bad idea actually, but with way lower numbers. And usable by the AI, that I guess wouldn't train settlers only to delete them.
     
  5. CrazyG

    CrazyG Deity

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    That 100 tourism for doing that stuff is far too high. A settler costs 105 hammers for 100 tourism.
     
    Sundance Kid likes this.
  6. Blue Ghost

    Blue Ghost King

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    Agreed that Heritage is much too abusable. All those units are very cheap, and will generate tourism far too quickly. And as it's written, you don't even have to use those units? What's to stop the player from building settlers/trade units and deleting them to get cheap tourism?

    Are the Humanism bonuses meant to replace the +1 GAP and +2 science? In most games, I'd much rather have the science over gold or more GAP. +3 culture can be nice, but Artistry doesn't need more culture.

    1 happiness per 4 GW seems far too low. Making a great work is a big investment, and even in culture-focused games, I can't see myself ever getting more than 2 happiness from this at most. Artifacts can help that some, but they come too late for the happiness to be worth anything.

    Also not seeing how these changes help wide Artistry. A wide empire isn't going to have more great works than a tall one; the bottleneck is great people, not the slots you have available.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2017
  7. Moi Magnus

    Moi Magnus Emperor

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    So now you can literally faith-buy tourism (missionary, withtthe exponential grows of GM faith cost) or gold-buy tourism (buy and delete a caravan) ? It feel very AI unfriendly / exploitable buy the human.
     
  8. tu_79

    tu_79 Deity

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    Perhaps heritage could be for archeological digs and number of civilian units maintained. So, deleting the worker removes its bonus. But this won't benefit settlers, nor a wide approach.

    Edit. Artifacts are already enhanced, I don't think archeologists need more buffs, maybe archeological sites, since getting the special shrine is difficult for civs going Artistry.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2017
  9. bigcat88

    bigcat88 King

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    Heritage looks like a very OP thing. If u have 10 cities can u produce 1000 tourism per turn? Or 2000(train + purchase)(I don't test new version yeat)
     
  10. matlajs

    matlajs King

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    i don't understand this ,,taking away unique promotions'' for logical reasons. one thing of few, which makes a civ unique and fun to play(keep very early unit alive for reason and enjoy some advantage). Ofcourse, take away feared elephant is logical, but late game meele units with some pre-attack attack is all about fantasy. they do not throw spears, but throw grenades, having mines in surrounding area etc. No, this is a bad move.
     
  11. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    That's why I released a beta. :) Really I want feedback on the MP stuff.

    40 tourism per unit would probably suffice.

    G
     
  12. Beniito

    Beniito Warlord

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    Do you get these yields when you purchase trade units ? or only when you produce them
     
  13. tu_79

    tu_79 Deity

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    I don't think so. Forget about logical reasons and focus on gameplay.
    Rome feels unique even without the pilum promotion, it always has. It feels unique since the moment you conquest cities, to the extra bonuses you get on the coloseum per kills, something you will be doing all the game long. It's not such a great lose.
     
    Gokudo01 likes this.
  14. Gokudo01

    Gokudo01 Emperor

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    overall nice patch but

    The intention Really is good and you nailed the bad policies in the tree but this solution, for Heritage really, doesn't feel right. despite not scaling with era, 100 tourism is big. But it's not the value which is the core issue. It's the way to get it. It really seems abusable by the human players over AI.
    Moreover didn't you say that you didn't want medieval trees to be design for any kind of victory. Because with the kind of tourism output ( heritage and the finisher), it does seem to promote the "go artistry if you want faster cultural victory"
    I think a solution should be found without directly boosting tourism.

    A more personal request would be to get rid of the finisher which also promotes the couple CV/artistry for something more general (for example, GPI amelioration, no culture nor tourism yields, of course but anything can be right )
     
    Blue Ghost likes this.
  15. Enginseer

    Enginseer Salientia of the Community Patch Supporter

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    But is the influence decay fixed.
     
  16. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    Tourism is useful for a lot of things. The bonus is too high but having one policy in all of the medieval branches with tourism does not suddenly make it mandatory for a CV.

    Eh?

    G
     
  17. Enginseer

    Enginseer Salientia of the Community Patch Supporter

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    Influence decay never scaled when 100+ Influence and doesn't multiply by 3 when you attack an allied city-state that got pledged to protect in the last version.
     
    doublex55 and Y.O. like this.
  18. Favorius

    Favorius I am not a Chief!

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    +3 gold for music is very underwhelming. I suggest making it +1 happiness because it is music. Also artistry opener is a bit extreme. There is no reason not to pick it when it is available.
     
  19. GodDamnItAlexander

    GodDamnItAlexander Warlord

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    Industry will eventually also boost Great people generation. Calling it now. :D
     
  20. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    Considering the cost of policies in the mid-game, 25% GP in all cities isn't as great as you make it out to be. You've cost yourself a policy finisher in the other branches.

    G
     

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