New Beta Version - September 15th (9-15)

[CrazyG]

I'll throw out an idea for Heritage. In the older artistry threads people discussed buffing universities, which seems thematic. You could give universities something like +2 and +2. I like the idea of a wide source of tourism

For humanism, I would rather all of the great works get the same buff. 1 per every 4 great works isn't very much. It eventually will scale late game after artifacts, but even for someone with tradition who is very aggressively creating great works, it takes a long time to get just 1 from it. The second point won't come for a long time either

 

[Blue Ghost]

i don't understand this ,,taking away unique promotions'' for logical reasons. one thing of few, which makes a civ unique and fun to play(keep very early unit alive for reason and enjoy some advantage). Ofcourse, take away feared elephant is logical, but late game meele units with some pre-attack attack is all about fantasy. they do not throw spears, but throw grenades, having mines in surrounding area etc. No, this is a bad move.

The heuristic we settled on is that weapon-based promotions are lost on upgrade, and tactics-based ones are not. I don't think removing Pilum on upgrade is necessary for balance, but it's a win for logical consistency.

 

[Gazebo]

I'll throw out an idea for Heritage. In the older artistry threads people discussed buffing universities, which seems thematic. You could give universities something like +2 and +2. I like the idea of a wide source of tourism

For humanism, I would rather all of the great works get the same buff. 1 per every 4 great works isn't very much. It eventually will scale late game after artifacts, but even for someone with tradition who is very aggressively creating great works, it takes a long time to get just 1 from it. The second point won't come for a long time either

Could drop it to 1h per 2 GW. I do like the university change, makes some sense. I'll admit I was struggling for something to add to that policy to remove the wonky WW/NW buff.

G

 

[Blue Ghost]

Could drop it to 1h per 2 GW. I do like the university change, makes some sense. I'll admit I was struggling for something to add to that policy to remove the wonky WW/NW buff.

G

If you're looking to buff wide Artistry, how about mitigating the Tourism (and maybe Culture) penalty for number of cities, like that Rationalism policy does with Science? Artistry would still be better for Tall overall, but it would give wider civs a nice bonus. I also never liked how much wide empires are crippled in the tourism game.

 

[cammcken]

Also new pilum is a massive nerf to Rome on quick

That's why I always play on Epic speed. I want to keep the possibility of lightning wars open.

 

[Jarula]

How about late late game like something versus xcom and something versus gdr?

 

[Ziad]

The Heritage policy can promote cheesy gameplay that the AI wont have an answer for. Also given that Artistry already has additional tourism benefits from hidden sites and GA, I don't think adding another one is necessary. While tourism is useful for non culture wins, the point is not making the tree too much in favor of a culture victory.

I would suggest scratching it altogether. The bonus to universities seems like a good idea.

 

[Argentino]

hey G, any way to play with the EUI betas? I can't get it to work.

Cheers

 

[Moi Magnus]

40 tourism per unit would probably suffice.
G

The number does not change the problem.
A caravan is 90 prod. That mean that you can easily build a caravan every 1-2 turn in every city (up to you maximum number of trade route, and if you disband it directly).
And I'm not coutning the caravan that you buy with gold...
(Moreover, this policy make buying great musician with faith far less interesting : just buy a bunch a missionary instead.)
It feel like you could just give the possibility to cities to "convert hammer into tourism" (as for culture, science, gold, ...), and it would be more balanced.

I would suggest to move the tourism bonus to the moment where you expand the unit, so something around that :
100 (or 40) tourism everytime
+ You finish to dig an archeological site
+ You settle a city
+ You use a missionnary on a city that does not have its religion
+ You complete a trade route

 

[Ziad]

Speaking of great works, any plans on mitigating Japan's weakness to early musician procs from the UA? It happens frequently enough with CS quests, and early enough that it hits your GPT hard. Unike GA and GW, does not have corresponding slots in anything til medieval (Unless tradition or take mandir/church). Can't even use their actives.

I wouldn't suggest anything massive. Maybe just eliminate the upkeep cost. They can just hang in the capital. Stockpiling can't really be abused cause of how low yields are early on and in later stages of the game the upkeep is irrelevant.

 

[ElliotS]

My thoughts:
-Heritage should be: "Universities get +2 and , wide tourism penalty halved."
-I'm not a big fan of new Humanism. Was the old one OP? Writing and Music seem bad, but especially music.
-Japan should probably spend early musicians on tours. The happiness from that is really good. Also religious beliefs can grant music slots if you really want them.

 

[LukaSlovenia29]

I'd remove missionaries altogether, would change it to great prophets instead. Otherwise, I like MoiMagnus' ideas for the other three sources of tourism.

 

[Ziad]

Not sure why I thought you needed open borders.

 

[doublex55]

My thoughts:
-Heritage should be: "Universities get +2 and , wide tourism penalty halved."
-I'm not a big fan of new Humanism. Was the old one OP? Writing and Music seem bad, but especially music.

Fully agree with this heritage policy. Old Humanism should stay.

Refinement shouldn't be per city it should be a global 1 hapiness per 3 or 4 great works.

 

[Gazebo]

If you're looking to buff wide Artistry, how about mitigating the Tourism (and maybe Culture) penalty for number of cities, like that Rationalism policy does with Science? Artistry would still be better for Tall overall, but it would give wider civs a nice bonus. I also never liked how much wide empires are crippled in the tourism game.

Potentially.

How about late late game like something versus xcom and something versus gdr?

What does that have to do with anything?

hey G, any way to play with the EUI betas? I can't get it to work.

Cheers

No, and I don't recommend the beta. Jumped the shark IMO.

Speaking of great works, any plans on mitigating Japan's weakness to early musician procs from the UA? It happens frequently enough with CS quests, and early enough that it hits your GPT hard. Unike GA and GW, does not have corresponding slots in anything til medieval (Unless tradition or take mandir/church). Can't even use their actives.

I wouldn't suggest anything massive. Maybe just eliminate the upkeep cost. They can just hang in the capital. Stockpiling can't really be abused cause of how low yields are early on and in later stages of the game the upkeep is irrelevant.

Japan is doing fine, concert tours are great.

My thoughts:
-Heritage should be: "Universities get +2 and , wide tourism penalty halved."
-I'm not a big fan of new Humanism. Was the old one OP? Writing and Music seem bad, but especially music.
-Japan should probably spend early musicians on tours. The happiness from that is really good. Also religious beliefs can grant music slots if you really want them.

I agree that a buff to universiites would be nice.

Fully agree with this heritage policy. Old Humanism should stay.

Old humanism didn't scale well and was samey.

G

 

[doublex55]

Old humanism didn't scale well and was samey.
G

This new Humanism doesn't scale well either and ends up being more to keep track of for little gameplay benifit. It also looks worse aestheically as a policy.

The flat science of current humanism fits well with the %science boost and is nice and tidy to look at. This policy is definitely fine as is and the more stuff we change the more problems and kinks there will be to work out afterwards.

 

[doublex55]

Influence decay never scaled when 100+ Influence and doesn't multiply by 3 when you attack an allied city-state that got pledged to protect in the last version.

+1. Been waiting for this fix since introduction.

 

[Gazebo]

This new Humanism doesn't scale well either and ends up being more to keep track of for little gameplay benifit. It also looks worse aestheically as a policy.

The flat science of current humanism fits well with the %science boost and is nice and tidy to look at. This policy is definitely fine as is and the more stuff we change the more problems and kinks there will be to work out afterwards.

That much science too quickly was causing problems, so your 'it was fine' argument doesn't hold water.

+1. Been waiting for this fix since introduction.

If people would report things like this to github instead of just waiting we wouldn't need passive-aggressive statements like this.

G

 

[Enginseer]

If people would report things like this to github instead of just waiting we wouldn't need passive-aggressive statements like this.
G

https://github.com/LoneGazebo/Community-Patch-DLL/issues/3473

Correction: Influence Decay Scale does not exist.

It never got the label of Fixed for upcoming version. Therefore it's my fault for assuming it was fixed.

 

[Gazebo]

https://github.com/LoneGazebo/Community-Patch-DLL/issues/3473



It never got the label of Fixed for upcoming version. Therefore it's my fault for assuming it was fixed.

I don't recall marking that at all, but it is. Mea culpa.

G