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New Beta Version - September 6th (9-6)

Discussion in 'Community Patch Project' started by Gazebo, Sep 6, 2018.

  1. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch

    Joined:
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    Aquidneck Island
    Hey all,

    New beta version inbound. Lots of good stuff here!

    Changelog:


    Online as of 1:31AM EST. Not savegame compatible.

    Link: https://mega.nz/#F!iMNVEISb!gW3aPq-MQ-kibL0lFxrw-w


    Cheers,

    Gazebo
     
  2. randomnub

    randomnub Chieftain

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    :woohoo:
     
    Owlbebach likes this.
  3. bigcat88

    bigcat88 Chieftain

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    Imho: Order need a free building. Both Autocracy and Freedom has it, and Order now has only +100%(and it is not a big boost). Or change boost fort academies & labs to +150/200%. Or remove free hospital from freedom as well.
     
  4. admfischer

    admfischer Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2010
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    31
     
  5. neo_arcadia

    neo_arcadia Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2016
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    Time to open up new Byzantium log of experiment.
     
  6. CrabHelmet

    CrabHelmet Chieftain

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    R.I.P. Basil, you were too good for this world.
     
  7. CppMaster

    CppMaster Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2018
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    Location:
    Poland
    Overall I like these changes, however:
    How about instead of two Tier 3 Tenets, it would just require 27 Policies, no matter which ones? It's the same number of total policies, but it would not force you to pick Ideologies tenets. Or is it intended?
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2018
  8. tu_79

    tu_79 Warlord

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    What I worry more is the potential divergence on expected number of turns by different difficulties. Cultural victory can be obtained much faster in lower difficulties than the scientific victory. Having a requirement for tons of policies just prevents the accidental too early cultural victory, but does not address time-line.

    I think that if Telecommunications is too late for cv, an earlier tech could be used instead.
     
  9. burleigh

    burleigh Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2002
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    Location:
    Woodford, Essex/London, UK
    I'm with these changes for cv.... managed to avoid defeat in one game because of the tremendous time lag to get to telecoms to sneak a diplo victory, but really I'd lost a long time before that.
    The two tier 3 tenets is also a goodie as it does at least mean that you have to invest heavily in an ideology- you need to know (and let others know) who and what you are before lesser peoples are wowed by you.
    I'm not sure about Basil, tho'- I think the change a couple of Betas ago from 15% to 20% was too much- the last 2 games I've played one religion was really dominant with a second one way behind, with a few other also rans. Before that, there seemed to be genuine religious conflict. Maybe 17% (about 1/6 rather than 1/5) of believers to snare a reformation belief would be better, with a 7% discount for Basil to make it at least feel vaguely wondrous, and allow a late religion to catch up?
     
  10. Owlbebach

    Owlbebach Warlord

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    Any idea why "bonus declines every era" was introduced? It woulnd not be OP even without it. I mean how much gold am i gonna get from that in Industrial? 100-200? Also i think that it should be based on "per follower converted" basis, not on Changed religion, cause otherwise it is too hard to use. Usually if your religion is majority but has 6 out of 10 follower - you already want to use Inquisitor. Not to mention that the further the game goes - the slower followers are converted to other religion
     
  11. CrabHelmet

    CrabHelmet Chieftain

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    You can win Domination in Renaissance. Why is it worrying Cultural victories can happen before Science victories? Cultural victories are much easier to prevent with a good invasion, it's very hard to block a Science runaway.
     
    Gokudo01, Owlbebach, Bromar1 and 3 others like this.
  12. Moi Magnus

    Moi Magnus Warlord

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    Because there was a design intention of "Every victory should happen approximatively at the same time". Thus the technologic lock for dimplomatic victory too.
    Why? Because a lot of features of the game (corporations, late game units, ...) were frequently irrelevant when early cultural victory was a thing. And it made science victory difficult to balance.

    (The only reason why domination victory was not pushed away with a tech lock is that it does not make any sense to continue playing if all the other civs are mostly deads)

    The goal is that a peacefull science victory (same for diplomatic) must be possible against a cultural victory. (And the reverse too, of course. We don't want a glorified rock paper cisor. And by peacefull, I also count devellopement were you may go at war with your neightbourg, but don't have enough army to cross the world and kill the runaway)

    A tech lock was a way to achieve this. A policy lock should also work, but was first refused because it would advantage Poland too much.
     
    CppMaster likes this.
  13. tu_79

    tu_79 Warlord

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    The game is not about AI winning domination in Renaissance, it's about you winning domination in Renaissance. If you are able to win domination in Prince, but not in King, you probably are not going to beat the game in Renaissance. If you manage to win by domination in Prince in Renaissance, you probably are not playing at a suitable difficulty level.
    The same does not apply for science-cultural. Prince players (those that are not skilled enough to beat the game in King), can win by culture relativelly much faster than science, compared to Immortal-Deity players playing in Immortal-Deity.
    What does it imply? We will be receiving contradictory reports. For people playing lower difficulties, cultural victory will be very easy to achieve (faster than science and diplomatic, thus easier to achieve). Even when it is nicely balanced for Emperor, more casual players won't find the victory conditions really balanced, as scientific victory will be probably the most difficult for them.

    We got full of those contradictory reports from people playing different difficulties, and we thought Gazebo had more or less solved the problem by hooking the cultural victory to a tech. But then many players showed here complaining about how important science is now, and that they liked more the old way. Fun should triumph over balance, fine, but then we can't offer a proper VC balance for lower difficulties.

    EDIT. If a Deity player plays in Prince, science victory might happen very fast, so he might not be able to see the problem.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2018
    CppMaster likes this.
  14. Bromar1

    Bromar1 Chieftain

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    Furs in tundra forest are providing +2 :c5food: and +1:c5production:, same as just normal forest on tundra with no resources. Intended?
     
  15. Enrico Swagolo

    Enrico Swagolo Chieftain

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    I like this patch, but I don't get two things. The Inquisition seems pretty worthless to me and I fear civs that will never get any mileage out of it (Spain, every single benefit doesn't work) might be picking it. The more general, old Tithes seemed like something the AI couldn't have problems with.
    Why is Parthian still so much better than Mobility (land melee line) when having movement is, if anything, more important for mounted ranged? I'd give others +attack damage, maybe.

    Tundra forest is 1/1
     
  16. Zarggg

    Zarggg Chieftain

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    This was all I needed to see to know it was time to abandon my current game and update.
     
  17. Pooh Shaoqi

    Pooh Shaoqi Chieftain

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    Godamn, Rest In Peace Order.
     
  18. ElliotS

    ElliotS Warmonger

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    Does Way of the Pilgrim need a bit of a buff? The policy part was never great, but it seems straight worse than AT.
     
    CrazyG and Owlbebach like this.
  19. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch

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    It isn’t a flat era multiplier. It’s slight. It means that 200-300 gold per purge is the average.

    I designed it this was because this is how the AI best knows when to Inquisit. Doing it based on population changed isn’t what the AI focuses on.
     
  20. Stalker0

    Stalker0 Baller Magnus

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    One change that made the list but wasn't on the preview was a further city range attack strength bonus for the Castle. I approve, I still think City Attacks are just 10 damage chump attacks even with the last round of changes, so we will see how it goes.

    Based on my understanding of the mechanic I think its going to require fine tuning. Its one of those where up to a certain strength it makes no difference, it will just be 10 each time. But past a certain point, the damage will increase rapidly....and can easily slide into "OP" territory. So we will see where the sweet spot lies.
     

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