New challenge: earliest possible cultural victories

[AnotherPacifist]

Having explored the dark side, I think the next set of games for people like me, kbk and blizzrd who've done conquests and dominations to try the other side: earliest possible cultural victories. (Cultural victories used to be easy, but with the 50000 limit set, the challenge is not IF, but WHEN you get it). Some civs are probably still impossible to get cultural victories (like the Mali who can't even survive beyond 1800--I'm always amazed that the AI is able to do so), and part of the challenge for civs like Egypt and Babylon is to survive beyond their allotted time.

So people please post screenshots of their earliest cultural victories using the most recent patch. (Obviously in monarch, otherwise it'll be too easy or too hard). Listing in spawn order:

Babylon: 1793 (youtien)
Egypt: 1480 (usi)
China (3000BC): 1555 (usi)
China (600 AD): 1982 (AP)
India: 1898 (blizzrd)
Greece: 1570 (Verily)
Persia: 1490 (usi)
Rome: 1390 (usi)
Carthage: 1745 (War Bear)
Japan (3000BC): 1685 (usi)
Japan (600 AD): 1856 (blizzrd)
Ethiopia: 1940 (War Bear)
Maya: 1959 (blizzrd)
Vikings: 1936 (AP)
Arabia: 1736 (blizzrd)
Khmer: 1835 (usi)
Spain: 1808 (usi)
France: 1817 (blizzrd)
England: 1870 (blizzrd)
Germany: 1886 (AP)
Russia: 1888 (blizzrd)
Netherlands: 1918 (AP)
Mali: 1934 (TDK)
Portugal: 1961 (AP)
Mongolia: 1962 (AP-3000BC unlocked)
Inca: 1886 (blizzrd)
Aztecs: 1966 (AP)
Turkey: 1832 (blizzrd)
America: 1973 (CreCon)

 

[onedreamer]

nice challenge
Will update when I have a screenshot.

 

[coko]

Might try with the Greeks, if I am able to to pump out enough artists it should be possible!

 

[Deego3]

You can cross Babylon off the list. I got 50000 culture in Jerusalm, Babli and Shush.

The trick is to wipe out as many wonders as possible and kill Turkey ASAP.

But this was with 1.181 so im not sure if you can get it in the current patch...

 

[AnotherPacifist]

We need screenshots!

Again, the challenge is not whether it can be done, it's how early you can manage to do it.

 

[Deego3]

I dont have any screeshots, but i got it around 1800ish.

i was going for a diplo victory so i say i could get it earier if i tried...

 

[wr4th]

Greece, cultural victory in 1874 with latest patch (1.183). My culture cities were Epidamnos, Babylon and Dispolis Megale (Niwt-Rst). Can be done much faster, didn't really focus on a quick finish (didn't use culture slider or convert production).

 

[thadian]

How did you keep greece alive for so long? Have you launched a spaceship? There is a discussion about it in the "Help me understand stability" thread. moreso, about how to keep your stability up around the 1200-1600 phase.

 

[wr4th]

Stability was really no issue. I had only few cities: Atina, Byzantinos, Alexandreia, Hattusas, Roma and the three mentioned above. Built courthouses and jails asap and cottages in egypt and mesopotamia for economy.
I didn't launch the spaceship yet, but i could have done it soon. Wasn't really sure which victory to go In fact i could have been much faster if i had focused on culture (skip research etc.)

 

[AnotherPacifist]

Too bad I only had Christianity for the longest time, then I had an Islamic Cambridge in South America, so I went to OR and built Islamic Temples all over so I can build 3 Mosques. Stayed in Representation, Mercantilism, Pacifism for a long time. The only mistake I made was not to get Music early to build the Sistine Chapel. Had Mali, Netherlands, Khmer, Inca and Aztec as vassals.

I had numerous cities flip to me, most of which I disbanded. Witness the tiny American empire (Philadelphia flipped to me).

 

[wr4th]

Babylon, cultural victory in 1997. Again not for speed, but for fun. I only owned 3 cities in the non-flippable core area in Mesopotamia. Also notice the perfect timing

 

[AnotherPacifist]

How are you able to be stable with just 3 cities? What's your economy like?

 

[wr4th]

i was shaky. economy was like -50, but it was compensated by city and foreign rating.
i also could not research much, so i relied mostly on trading and espionage.

 

[Verily]

Before this thread was posted, I had a cultural victory on the new patch as Greece in 1784. Cultural cities were Athenai, Byzantion and Babylon. Wasn't really organized, though; Babylon reached Legendary culture long before the other two.

 

[Jet]

Greece 1763 AD (turn 342) 1.183

Very casual play. Turn 300 should be straightforward if you work at it. Maybe turn 250 or earlier in a lucky game.

screenshot

Spoiler :

game

Spoiler :

2/3 UHV. Machinery from Oracle.
200 Liberalism to PP, shut off science slider
250 noticed that everyone was Islamic and adopted Islam/Caste/Pacifism
320 the only plague of the game
339 Apulon declared independence

 

[AnotherPacifist]

I haven't finished it yet, but it dawned on me that as China, we need:
1. Elephants against the Mongolians and to get another shrine in Patna (i.e. elephant 2S of Hanoi)
2. a good vassal for happiness if you don't want to support lots of troops (i.e. Khmer)
3. Japan often gets Buddhism
4. Most of your southern cities are already Buddhist (as in real life from Wikipedia):

Buddhism was popular during the Six Dynasties period that preceded the Sui dynasty, spreading from India through Kushan Afghanistan into China during the Late Han period. Buddhism gained prominence during the period, when central political control was limited. Buddhism created a unifying cultural force that uplifted the people out of war and into the Sui Dynasty. In many ways, Buddhism was responsible for the rebirth of culture in China under the Sui Dynasty.

The Emperor Wen and his empress had converted to Buddhism to legitimate imperial authority over China and the conquest of Chen. Wendi presented himself as a Cakravartin king, a Buddhist monarch that would use military force to defend the Buddhist faith, much like the notion of Jihad in Islam.[7] In the year 601 AD, Emperor Wen had relics of the Buddha distributed to temples throughout China, with edicts that expressed his goals, "all the people within the four seas may, without exception, develop enlightenment and together cultivate fortunate karma, bringing it to pass that present existences will lead to happy future lives, that the sustained creation of good causation will carry us one and all up to wondrous enlightenment".[8] Ultimately, this act was an imitation of the ancient Mauryan Emperor Ashoka of India.[9]

So I converted to Buddhism, built Leaning Tower, Sistine Chapel (China starts with Music), Notre Dame and Univ of Sankore. Got several tributes from Khmer and finally they vassalized. I had built Hanoi (yes, it is possible to get there before the Khmer and it will not flip) and slaved a pavilion for early culture. Japan was Confused at first but became Buddhist, and yet still declared war on me, I killed all their triremes and they made peace. Even Mongolia (who I did not kill) turned Buddhist. I'm gunning for Patna and getting conquerors next, although the English may have beaten me to it.

 

[usi]

Sorry I just finished Chinese one (3000BC though). . .
Beijing, Sanshan and Tokyo (Tianjin) achieved legendary culture.

Some tips are:
1) Build the Great Lighthouse, and build coastal cities.
2) Kill Japanese when they appear.
Tokyo is damn good and you'll also get gold and silver (8 chariots will be usually enough).
3) The warrior you start with will go India to kidnap workers (woodsman II) and the first warrior you built will go Europe (trade).
Barbarian chariots and immprtals will appear after a while, so move the warriors carefully.
4) Gift a cheap tech to Babylon and OB with them after you got monarchy from Persia. It will connect your trade routes with Euro civs.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

I have just discovered the hard way that all the artists, wonders, temples and cathedrals in the world won't help you win an early cultural victory. I'm in 1950 and still just 15 turns to victory despite having all the wonders and religions in Beijing, Xian and Qufu. I have 5 vassals too which doesn't help.

It's the cultural slider (i.e. no vassals and turn off science slider after switching to free speech)!

 

[onedreamer]

I tried India but failed miserably. I'm at 10 turns to the end and my cities are still around 30.000 culture. I didn't really set up any good strategy though, but like AP says I learnt that I should have sticked to 4 cities max, should have forgotten about Mass Media and beelined Liberalism. The hard part with India was that I couldn't build many wonders... too few production. It was an interesting game nonetheless, India is probably the most stable of the 3000 BC civs (and even of the classical civs); I even went through 4 very bad plagues but I was never Shaky, and was Stable most of the game !

 

[AnotherPacifist]

This is actually a good guide:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=298093

The only thing missing is corporations. I think my English game went much quicker because I had all the corporations founded, having run Mercantilism and Pacifism throughout for great people. + 15 just with Sushi is like having 1.5 Forbidden Palace's culture, not to mention the other culture-related corporations.

Actually, you DO want a large empire, because you need to be able to support a 100% cultural slider with no deficits. 4 cities is just not enough, and India suffers due to lack of endowment in the New World (where cottages can be plenty and hammers at Denver can be all converted to gold (500 gold per turn!). But not large enough to drive your science down.

The most important paragraph is:

Ok, so you want to get a lot of raw culture and a lot of multipliers in three cities in a high difficulty game (Emperor, Immortal or Deity). Where will the raw culture come from?

Buildings? No. How many WW do you think you are going to build, being realistic. 1 early and 2 medieval, maybe? And smaller buildings add simply too little culture. There is a long way to 50000. It would take too long. (Note: BTS has many more interesting buildings and Sistine's add a great benefit to building temples and monasteries).

Specialists? No. Only 4 culture per artist. 6 if you build the Sistine's. Too slow.

GA? No. You are not going to get more than 20 GL in any game. At least if it doesn't go so late that Deity AI launches their Spaceship. 20*4000=80000, not bad, but you need another 70000 out of somewhere.

Cultural slider? Yes. Here is where culture lies. A city that has built his cottages around 1000BC and worked them will enjoy towns around 1000AD. Since the obvious civic to run is FS, every town is worth at least 7 commerce per turn, which will convert into 7 raw culture if the cultural slider is at 100%. A city can easily get 10 cottages, so we are talking about 70cpt in all three cities. That's superior to any other source.

Ok, so the most important contributor will be the commerce transformed into culture, the second more important contributor will be GAs generated by artists and buildings will add another bit. (In BTS there are many new WW and Sistine's has changed a lot, so the balance has changed a bit).