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New challenge: Spaceship victories with production poor civs

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Rhye's and Fall of Civilization' started by AnotherPacifist, Feb 16, 2008.

  1. AnotherPacifist

    AnotherPacifist Chieftain

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    Well, it's not new (since Germany, China, America and even Inca routinely build spaceship parts and even launch), but I wonder if it's possible to win the space victory with certain poor production civs like Maya, Khmer, and Mali. (Of course I'm talking about Monarch, since Viceroy is too easy and Emperor impossible)

    Has anybody done any of these civs?
     
  2. kairob

    kairob Biohazard

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    I havnt done a spaceship victory but I did get a highly productive Mali once by building watermills on the floodplain...
     
  3. AnotherPacifist

    AnotherPacifist Chieftain

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    I haven't started yet, but here's my Malian strategy:

    1. Grow those towns near Timbuktu and hope for mega-production with Universal Suffrage
    2. Get to Communism first and build the Kremlin and then buy my infrastructure and once I have enough tech lead switch to communism to support my farflung empire
    3. Colonize Zimbabwe (good for production) and Brazil (has oil and iron) first (i.e. beat the Dutch and Portuguese)
    4. Get biology/medicine soon to avoid those damn plagues!
    5. Get Forest Preserves and National Park in central Congo
    6. Absolutely no war and no state religion for good trade relationships (nobody wants Malian land anyway)

    I've always gone for the UHV with Mali so maybe Mali's financial power will come in handy for good science rates.
     
  4. Riker

    Riker True Metal of Steel

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    Let's get it started. Post a starting save, so we all have the same basicss
     
  5. AnotherPacifist

    AnotherPacifist Chieftain

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    You can start with any save. I'm in the 1820's with most of Africa colonized and Egypt as my vassal, but I still stuck in the pre-physics age, while France has already gotten industrialism. Aztecs and Incans are both at least 6 techs ahead of me thanks to being vassals of France and Spain at one time. Fairly impossible until you hit the $1 / tech time when somebody else builds the internet...
    And there's the freaking expansion/economy sinkhole that is called Africa. I've collapsed 5 times already despite numerous courthouses, markets, grocers, commonwealth, etc.
     
  6. Riker

    Riker True Metal of Steel

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    I'm generating my start now. I'll post it later, so everyone can share his fate. 3000BC unlocked start, latest version
     
  7. Riker

    Riker True Metal of Steel

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  8. AnotherPacifist

    AnotherPacifist Chieftain

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    Why 3000 BC? More people to peddle Divine Right with? :)
     
  9. Riker

    Riker True Metal of Steel

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    and less land since the better carthaginian coast is already taken. 600ad is easier
     
  10. AnotherPacifist

    AnotherPacifist Chieftain

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    Yeah, it looks bleak. Already 2nd move I meet Hannibal and he demands Theology from me. Spain won't trade machinery for Divine Right. Ethiopia is dead. You'll be my hero if you can pull this off.
    I think Khmer has a much better chance of doing it with no barbs/impis and Australia wide open for colonization, plus a money-producing Patna next door. Even Maya will do better since central NA has all those resources and Maya has time. Both Khmer and Maya can get their golden age without punitive consequences on science.
     
  11. Riker

    Riker True Metal of Steel

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    the first plague hit me pretty hard, with almost every single one of my few cities down to size 1, timbuktu included... Behind everyone, I just need a miracle since the next plague has started and I'll catch it in a matter of turns... I don't believe in miracles, btw.

    Update: 1751.

    France is running, I lag. Still haven't got liberalism. I just founded a city in Australia (for aluminium) and I've a settler waiting nearby. He will become a city with liberalism, just before the commonwealth switch. 4 cities in Malinese core area, one in Congo, 2 in South Africa and one for the uranium in Madagascar. First congress without problems (and invite...). I should have all the useful strategic resources, except horses, marble and stone (but I don't need them). Pretty much everyone (including me) follows the Islam and those 4 hammers from the AP are saving my ass. Two great people so far, engineers, settled in the capital. I believe I won't win this game
     
  12. AnotherPacifist

    AnotherPacifist Chieftain

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    My Khmer game is going much better in 1780. Got my Golden Age in 1455. I'm top in score (Germany, Netherlands, China having collapsed), and only tech I don't have is Communism. I am 2 moves from Biology, have 4 cities in Australia, Delhi just flipped to me. Only problem is I'm unstable due to continued slavery despite Democracy, but without slavery I cannot possibly get some useful cities from Padang and my Jayakarta (still building Opera House). Maybe after Biology I can seriously chop some jungle and build workshops all over Indonesia. I think barring India or China taking some lucrative cities from me, I should win the space race.
     
  13. AnotherPacifist

    AnotherPacifist Chieftain

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    Yes, I think Khmer is very doable. In fact, other than Japan, there's no other civ that can expand to Australia which can be very productive. Trick is to get biology very early, and build both the Space Elevator and Internet.

    Note the East vs. West alliance World War 3. I almost lost it to Isabella with her diplomatic votes (even though I built the UN) because almost all the Europeans voted for her. If Portugal and England weren't collapsed when the votes happened I would have lost.

    Even without trying, I had 23% Buddhism due to my population.

    Note the Great Barrier Fort in Australia Reef. Built by workers who had nothing else to do in the Australian desert. Viewable from space. :)
     
  14. AnotherPacifist

    AnotherPacifist Chieftain

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    1. Need to vassalize (not kill) Aztecs soon after they spawn by dint of my superior tech and culture. They will provide much needed happiness since I don't have religion early.
    2. Research path: sailing/math/calendar, then beeline for gunpowder (to kill, not defend, dog soldiers), guilds and optics (to reach Europeans first)
    3. Build 6 cities in NA (Seattle, Los Angeles, Denver, Grand Rapids, Chicago, New Orleans) to deny them to America who may even vassalize to me with my vast territories (at least they've done so before when I was Aztec). From my Khmer experience I need at least 6 good cities (Delhi,Patna,Hanoi, 2 cities in Australia and New Zealand, and Bangkok), one south enough to build the Space Elevator, one quick enough to build Internet. I think there's uranium and aluminum in NA so I don't have to go to Australia for it.
    4. Get 1 city in South America (Caracas) to get an extra oil, but no more due to expansion instability
    5. Convert to Christianity ASAP but if not, get liberalism soon
    6. NOT build the temple of Kulkulkan to avoid winning the UHV, but get my GA in 1735

    Any other thoughts?
     
  15. Riker

    Riker True Metal of Steel

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    Maya got plenty of useful places to settle, it should not be too hard. Just be everyone's . .. .. .. .. . and make sure to hook up some aluminium, I don't remember where it can be found in the Americas.

    My Malinese game is proceeding better than I thought, I believe I'll be able to launch. The levees made the day
     
  16. mushyman

    mushyman Chieftain

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    This all sounds really fun! I may have to give it a go :)
     
  17. Riker

    Riker True Metal of Steel

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    I aborted the game due to stupid mistakes. The next start will be the victorious one, I'll post the save as soon as it's generated
     
  18. Riker

    Riker True Metal of Steel

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  19. mushyman

    mushyman Chieftain

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    Ok, so I decided to have a go at this with the Mayans. However, this is my first non-UHV attempt and I'm not sure how well I'm doing. How do you overcome the massive tech advantages the Europeans have? It's currently 1820 and I'm way, way behind on both tech and score (third from bottom in score). I have no techs I can trade for anything (and never did, really), and the Pentagon and Kremlin were built some time ago (1770s). Advice anyone?

    On an unrelated note, RAGE against that bloody economy rating!!! Predictably it started declining in around the 13th century or so and despite spamming windmills and frantically building as many money buildings as I can it's never been higher than two stars again and has consistently kept me in Unstable for hundreds of years now. Of course I'd probably be fine except I've been hit by the effects of TWO Great Depressions despite running Mercantilism and not even having contact with the civs in question! :mad:
    I've also been hit by two plagues... is this a bug? I thought the Americans were only supposed to get one.
     
  20. AnotherPacifist

    AnotherPacifist Chieftain

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    I had the same problems. Did an overexpansion too quickly in the 1600's and had to endure getting astronomy in 15 turns! I did finally catch up in the 1800's: the key is to get Biology and Medicine first and trade it to everybody else since the AI prioritizes production and military techs. I'm now first in score as the Mayans in 1900 (1st in population, production and GNP) but still behind the Europeans in tech by 3-4. Surprisingly the Russians are very advanced (probably thanks to the earlier research institutes) and they might very well beat me since they're chummy with the Germans. I don't have great hopes to build the Internet since I don't even have radio yet...:mad:

    Try to build some farms too (agriculture also counts in your economy).

    I vassalized Aztecs and Incans early so my happiness wasn't an issue, and I traded most of their resources to one or two of mine (which helps with economy).

    I also have Trading Company, Free Market. I'm first in gold now. :lol:
     

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