I find it curious that they chose to call it "French Empire" instead of simply "France." Their Spanish civ also focuses on a particular period of colonization and empire building, yet they call it "Spain" and not "Spanish Empire."
pre-release info New Civ Guide: French Empire
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Boris Gudenuf
Deity
Little late to this party - got my COVID shot this morning, so was out of the loop: and if side-effects kick in, may be back loopless by this afternoon . . .
The only thing I would debate regarding France as modeled is the Jacobins, a Terrorist organization if there ever was one. I notice that they did not include Jean-Baptiste Carrier among them: look up "vertical deportation" for a potentially ISIS-approved method of removing undesirables.
On the other hand, they could have used Philosophe for their Special Characters for France, a group that could have included:
Voltaire
Montesquieu
Rousseau
d'Alembert
Condorcet
Diderot
Saint-Simon
Fourier
- and even some prominent foreigners, like Locke, Hume, Adam Smith, Thomas Paine, Mary Wollstonecraft and Spinoza.
A more eclectic group for certainj. On the other hand, the attributes given to the Jacobins indicate that the names are just that and need have no real connection to the aspects they want in the game.
And if you stretch the definition a bit, 'Industrialization' was already starting with iron furnaces going up in eastern and central Pennsylvania right after the revolution, the start of major iron and steel manufacture that culminated in Pittsburgh later in the century. Not on the same scale, by any means, but significant in the earlier period.
The only thing I would debate regarding France as modeled is the Jacobins, a Terrorist organization if there ever was one. I notice that they did not include Jean-Baptiste Carrier among them: look up "vertical deportation" for a potentially ISIS-approved method of removing undesirables.
On the other hand, they could have used Philosophe for their Special Characters for France, a group that could have included:
Voltaire
Montesquieu
Rousseau
d'Alembert
Condorcet
Diderot
Saint-Simon
Fourier
- and even some prominent foreigners, like Locke, Hume, Adam Smith, Thomas Paine, Mary Wollstonecraft and Spinoza.
A more eclectic group for certainj. On the other hand, the attributes given to the Jacobins indicate that the names are just that and need have no real connection to the aspects they want in the game.
Not entirely. American Land Hunger was present from before the revolution. The Pennsylvania county I grew up in, in the middle of the state and middle of the Appalachian Mountains, was settled starting in the 1750s by people who already thought the area west of Philadelphia was getting 'too crowded' and despite the fact that the land was claimed by the Haudenosenee and was therefore not really safe for anybody else. And the settlement of the 'Old Northwest' - Ohio, Indiana country in the 1790s was every bit as aggressive and genocidal as anything that happened further west in the last half of the 19th century.
And if you stretch the definition a bit, 'Industrialization' was already starting with iron furnaces going up in eastern and central Pennsylvania right after the revolution, the start of major iron and steel manufacture that culminated in Pittsburgh later in the century. Not on the same scale, by any means, but significant in the earlier period.
Nic@Melbourne
Warlord
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Looks great. I like the variety of great people.
Hoping to play Greece, Spain, into France. Which will mean a lot of great people.
Hoping to play Greece, Spain, into France. Which will mean a lot of great people.
While I agree, America's design screams "late 19th century and Charles Dickens hates you" to me.
This design of France does not strike me as very philosophical...
Mudkip1001
Warlord
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yea the ~1730-1950s modern age really puts America in a weird spot of having to combine all the elements kinda like how france's civ is compiling the republics and empire (all before the 4th republic anyways) into one thing.
That is weird, I know you can't call Modern Age America "Imperial America", cause even during the height of the territorial gain in the 1890s that was not what people wanted America to be known as, and I know today its not how we want to view or call America either.
It may have been a simple mistake, musically the two songs referenced by the composer are two colonial pieces, or maybe this is evidence of Firaxis changing their mind and maybe reverting in the design state to a one era America.
Connor_CivFan
Warlord
I dont actually agree with calling it Colonial America, however if it is a mistake they have not attempted to rectify it (the description of that music video also calls it colonial america). I was just trying to rationalise the thought process in the situation that it is not a mistake.
The Civ Guide, on the other hand, just calls it America.
Boris Gudenuf
Deity
Despite the title, neither were the Philosophes. As much as anything, the title stuck because it covers such a wide range, as they did (kind of like the classical Greek 'natural philosophers', which meant pretty much any topic they wanted to write about)
If anything, far more of them are literary/cultural (Voltaire, Rousseau, Wollstonecraft) or political (Paine, Voltaire) or scientific (Diderot, Hume, Locke) than what most would consider purely 'philosophical'
I think they simply wanted to focus on the most interesting historical period in American history, which, in my opinion, is the 19th century. This creates a false perception that America was deliberately split into two to allow for another version of America in the future. The same can be said about Mexico, where they chose to focus on the Revolutionary period, which many might consider the most emblematic era in Mexican history. I don’t think any of this necessarily points to having another America or another Mexico; it just shows they decided to highlight what are arguably the most captivating historical periods for these countries.
Look, we’re discussing America in a thread about France.
That said, this same rule can apply to France, as they also decided to focus on highly emblematic aspects of French history that are very popular. I don’t think this means we’ll see another version of France either.
Look, we’re discussing America in a thread about France.
That said, this same rule can apply to France, as they also decided to focus on highly emblematic aspects of French history that are very popular. I don’t think this means we’ll see another version of France either.
Similarly, "Jardin à la Française" simply means "French Garden." They could have simply called it "Jardin," as the French part is sort of self-evident.
Mudkip1001
Warlord
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lol sorry, at this point with Layfette, they are pretty comingled in the mind.Look, we’re discussing America in a thread about France.
I have mixed feelings - on one hand the mechanics look fun, on another we have yet again France in civ with somehow zero scientific, industrial, economic or expansionist bonuses, once again having a mishmash of military and cultural stuff like in every civ game ever. It's really jarring for me how this heavyweight hegemonic superpower of the entire past millenium always focuses on the tall cultural play you could just as well slap on Siam or any random small "culturally rich" country.
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It seems apparent from the graphical design that it's intended to be a Conservatory. I don't know why they didn't go with that.
Conservatory (greenhouse) - Wikipedia
Gori the Grey
The Poster
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When you're in Philadelphia, don't ask for a Philly Cheesesteak.
untitledjuan
Prince
"French" representation in the Exploration Era could also come in the form of the Franks. Though they idea of them being represented by Burgundy, Aquitaine or Brittany is interesting as well.
It really is weird though to have them appear under the name "French Empire" when all other Civs follow a different, rather simpler naming convention.
I find the French design in Civ7 distinct enough from Civ6, which revolved around building world wonders and generating tourism. Of course, there are some points of intersection here, but the Civ7 design feels a bit more militaristic and not as focused on wonders.
In short, I think it’s very difficult to move away from the concept of a cultural France, even though there are other approaches they could take. It has essentially become a trademark of France in the franchise.
SeelingCat
Prince
Technically, it's "Garden in the French way." The French formal garden is a specific type of garden: very manicured, orderly, and geometric, as compared to the English garden, which is more rustic, "natural," and organic. It looks like jardin régulier "regular [as in orderly] garden" and jardin classique "classical garden" are also used though.
Though with that said, there's not much of a garden visible in the art, which strikes me as a bit odd. Additionally, with the Modern Era starting in 1750, the French formal garden/jardin à la Française was actually falling out of popularity in France around that time in favor of the French landscape garden (jardin paysager "landscape", jardin pittoresque "picturesque", jardin anglo-chinois "Anglo-Chinese"), which was related to the aforementioned English garden as well as Chinese gardens - and was much less costly to maintain.
untitledjuan
Prince
Not only is using the name "French Empire" weird in aesthetic terms compared to the names used for the other civilizations, it also is outright ahistorical, as many of the unique features shown for them in the game guide are from different time periods.
-Liberté, Égalité, Fraternité is a motto most commonly associated to the French Republic. Its use almost completely faded during the First and Second French Empires. Emperor Napoleon III, the only ruler of the Second French Empire, order the motto to be deleted almost everywhere.
-Belle Époque was an artistic period that lasted from 1871 to 1914. These period happened right after the end of the Second French Empire and it was mostly a thing during the French Third Republic.
-Jardin à la française: These style of French gardens began way back during the Baroque period, when France was deep in its monarchist period back during the Kingdom of France. They even have historical roots as far back as the Renaissance.
-Salon: These places were especially importabt during the late Kingdom of France, during the Enlightenment. They gave rise to republican ideas that gave way to the French Revolution and the French First Republic.
-Jacobin: were members of the Jacobin political faction during the French Revolution. They disbanded right before Napoleon declared the First French Empire. I bet they would have been quite opposed to the idea of an empire instead of a republic.
-Eiffel Tower: Its construction lasted from 1887 to 1889, during the French Third Republic, not during the Second French Empire.
-The civilization icons is the Fleur de lis, an icon associated to the pre-revolutionary monarchy of the Kingdom of France and centuries older then the French First Empire.
You could use the word "empire" more broadly and cover a larger scope of regimes and forms of government (as in the term French Colonial Empire), but still, its weird to use the word only for one civilization of the game and not the others.
As this is not done with the other civilizations, one can understan that they are refering to the Napoleonic First and Second French Empires, but the unique features shown have elements from the Republican and Kingdom periods.
They should only call it France and leave it there. Have the Normans, Franks, Burgundians and/or Aquitanians as their predecessors in the Exploration Era and hope that no contemporary or future eras ever happen in the game nor in future DLCs.
-Liberté, Égalité, Fraternité is a motto most commonly associated to the French Republic. Its use almost completely faded during the First and Second French Empires. Emperor Napoleon III, the only ruler of the Second French Empire, order the motto to be deleted almost everywhere.
-Belle Époque was an artistic period that lasted from 1871 to 1914. These period happened right after the end of the Second French Empire and it was mostly a thing during the French Third Republic.
-Jardin à la française: These style of French gardens began way back during the Baroque period, when France was deep in its monarchist period back during the Kingdom of France. They even have historical roots as far back as the Renaissance.
-Salon: These places were especially importabt during the late Kingdom of France, during the Enlightenment. They gave rise to republican ideas that gave way to the French Revolution and the French First Republic.
-Jacobin: were members of the Jacobin political faction during the French Revolution. They disbanded right before Napoleon declared the First French Empire. I bet they would have been quite opposed to the idea of an empire instead of a republic.
-Eiffel Tower: Its construction lasted from 1887 to 1889, during the French Third Republic, not during the Second French Empire.
-The civilization icons is the Fleur de lis, an icon associated to the pre-revolutionary monarchy of the Kingdom of France and centuries older then the French First Empire.
You could use the word "empire" more broadly and cover a larger scope of regimes and forms of government (as in the term French Colonial Empire), but still, its weird to use the word only for one civilization of the game and not the others.
As this is not done with the other civilizations, one can understan that they are refering to the Napoleonic First and Second French Empires, but the unique features shown have elements from the Republican and Kingdom periods.
They should only call it France and leave it there. Have the Normans, Franks, Burgundians and/or Aquitanians as their predecessors in the Exploration Era and hope that no contemporary or future eras ever happen in the game nor in future DLCs.
Daigotsu Max
Franco-Hiberno-Catalan
As a French man I kinda love the wine bias tbh. No harm done. And I agree this is the most exciting French civ design I've seen so far in the line, the other ones have always been just culture heavy with little in the way of fun quirks.
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