pre-release info New Civ Guide: French Empire

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I'm the only person in the world who liked Civ6 France. Châteaux were fun, but they were overshadowed by the much-better Pairidaeza.

I like the fact that France got better over time: Magnificence Catherine was the best then, Freleanor, and Black Queen Catherine was last.

As for this iteration of France I do wish they had done some things differently. The Jardin and Salon building seems like things you would find at a Chateau, so why not make the Chateau the unique quarter? At least in my mind if you wanted to go with an Avenue quarter you could have done a Cafe and a Grand Palais (museum) building.

I also agree that I would have preferred a Philosophe unique civilian unit over a Jacobin, personally.

 

[Isengardtom]

I agree with the split, though I think Shawnee will be counted, and there are a number of ways they can divide up the packs to reach that number. I'm sort of expecting 3 Antiquity + 1 Modern (the one of Russia/Germany/Britain not in the base game, probably Britain) in Crossroads and 2 Exploration/2 Modern in Right to Rule. That's just a hunch, but it tracks with the sheer number of unassociated wonders in Antiquity (some of which would still be unassociated). I tend to expect Silla OR Tonga, Goths, and Assyria, but we'll see.

Assyria would be so nice - but likely a military leader if they assign one.

I’m all for more Antiquity civs

 

[JaeChunDaeSung]

Ahhh, POST-Franco Prussian War France!

 

[Zaarin]

As for this iteration of France I do wish they had done some things differently. The Jardin and Salon building seems like things you would find at a Chateau, so why not make the Chateau the unique quarter? At least in my mind if you wanted to go with an Avenue quarter you could have done a Cafe and a Grand Palais (museum) building.

I also agree that I would have preferred a Philosophe unique civilian unit over a Jacobin, personally.

To me, both the Jacobin and the Avenue are in line for France being a Military civ disguised as a Culture civ. You have military parades in the Avenue. The Jacobins, as Boris said, are essentially terrorists. The Happiness bonuses are to offset war weariness, and the culture is to beeline to Ideology.

Assyria would be so nice - but likely a military leader if they assign one.

I hope Assyria looks a lot like Civ6 Persia: a culture/builder civ with some military bonuses. As for leader, there are a lot of directions they could go, but even though Assyria is filled to overflowing with big personality leaders, I think we'll actually see a Sumerian or early Akkadian leader like Sargon to represent the entire region. That wouldn't be my first choice, but it would follow their general design philosophy so far. (That being said, Esarhaddon would make a great builder-focused Assyrian leader. I could also see them focusing on Ashurbanipal's literary collections, even though the man was an absolute savage, even by Assyrian king standards.)

 

[Isengardtom]

Unique Ability:
Liberté, Egalité, Fraternité: You can select the Golden Age effects of any Government in the Modern Age.

This one confuses me a bit. Does Sarah mean during a celebration?

I thought golden age / dark age was linked to the legacy path
Sorry if asked before

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

To me, both the Jacobin and the Avenue are in line for France being a Military civ disguised as a Culture civ. You have military parades in the Avenue. The Jacobins, as Boris said, are essentially terrorists. The Happiness bonuses are to offset war weariness, and the culture is to beeline to Ideology.

Yeah I get it. I just wish the civ itself wasn't so centered around the French Revolution, when we now have two leaders associated with the Revolution itself.

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

I wonder about this:

Paul Barras: Activated on a Palace to increase Relationship Gains by a set percentage per Diplomatic Action.

This could be one of the most useless abilities in Multiplayer if Relationship Gains are null between human players.

 

[Zaarin]

Yeah I get it. I just wish the civ itself wasn't so centered around the French Revolution, when we now have two leaders associated with the Revolution itself.

Yeah, having two Revolutionary leaders is disappointing. If we had to have Napoleon, at the very least the other leader could have been from the Ancien Regime.

 

[Lord Lakely]

Yeah, having two Revolutionary leaders is disappointing. If we had to have Napoleon, at the very least the other leader could have been from the Ancien Regime.

I know a solution for that (NOT HAVE NAPOLEON).

:cries in Voltaire and Richelieu:

 

[Zaarin]

I know a solution for that (NOT HAVE NAPOLEON).

That's always my favorite solution to any problem.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Yeah, having two Revolutionary leaders is disappointing. If we had to have Napoleon, at the very least the other leader could have been from the Ancien Regime.

Since they aren't necessarily going for heads of state, Jeanne d'Arc could have done well.
Or since they are going male leaders for France this time as well, Louis XIV would have been my pick.

 

[Zaarin]

Jeanne d'Arc could have done well.

Considering France is the new Greece, I wouldn't count her out yet.

 

[Xandinho]

Since they aren't necessarily going for heads of state, Jeanne d'Arc could have done well.
Or since they are going male leaders for France this time as well, Louis XIV would have been my pick.

I'd have chosen him as well. Surprisingly, he’s been absent from the franchise for a long time, despite his remarkable personality.

I think at some point, we’ll have another queen filling the "mad queen/Cersei Lannister" role that once belonged to Catherine de Medici.

 

[Lord Lakely]

I think at some point, we’ll have another queen filling the "mad queen/Cersei Lannister" role that once belonged to Catherine de Medici.

St. Olga.

 

[untitledjuan]

Considering France is the new Greece, I wouldn't count her out yet.

I think America could also be considered a new Greece. We have arguably three American leaders thus far. Lafayette counts as both French and American.

 

[Zaarin]

I think at some point, we’ll have another queen filling the "mad queen/Cersei Lannister" role that once belonged to Catherine de Medici.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Wu Zetian resume that role.

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

0. White a lame to me. Isn't there a better name than Jacobins? and Chateau didn't return either. so plans could be that there might also be Medieval France in the DLC and Chateau will be associated to this.
1. What are 'Salons' as French knows?
2. Imperial Guard returns as generic French Army footslogger, a no go to me. The more proper name should be Fusilier. While France is not the only user of the name, they're the first to use, and it represents the entirety of their infantry prowess.
No army in the world has its core elements being elite guards. and Imperial Guard showing here always used the same ol Grenadiers since Civ6 (And there were only TWO regiments!).
Why 'Fusiliers'?
Simple.
Firaxis discarded this unit name entirely, instead of using it for Tier0 modern Age footsloggers, instead 'Line Infantry' is used (and even lamer--'Cuirassiers' being Tier0 cavalry choice while the more proper name should be 'Line Cavalry' which is much more descriptive and also represents cavalry forces of the Early 18th Century).
If Firaxis don't use Fusiliers as a generic choice, they should use it for French UU Choice.
French Military has never been expressed correctly in Sid Meier's Civilization franchises. 'Elite Guards became Main Element of the Army' or in short, 'Army of Elite Guards'. and I say 'Army' means a Great Army consists of Millions of men under arms. and footsloggers are all Elite Guards and not simple footsoldiers.
Civ3 - 5: Musketeers. and yes 'Elite Cavalry Guards that doubles as infantryman, so say 'Heavy Dragoons' with the same hi-end warhorses as knights. they NEVER been referred to as INFANTRY.... This was for Anglophonic markets and to this end 'Musketmen' are introduced as generic choice. so confusing nomeclature.
even worse. Civ3 Musketeers wore Garde Francaisses Uniform

Musketeer (Civ3)

Back to the list of units French Musketeers are troops specifically trained to use the new weapon, the musket. They replace musketmen. A French city must have saltpeter in its Strategic Resource box to build a musketeer. The Musketeer originally had A/D/M of 3/4/1, but this was changed to 2/5/1...

civilization.fandom.com

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^ Garde Francaisse as mentioned earlier.

In Civ4 and 5 they wore classic 'Musketeers' uniform. (and one from Dumas novel, which in fact Louis XIV's era uniform, and as mentioned earlier, they ain't no footsloggers.

French Guard Musketeers did not return in Civ6. instead the unit name did not revert to generic choice of (pseudo) infantry unit. Instead France got Imperial Guard, originally as an elite infantry separately recruited rather than upgradeable from preexisting melee units. Later in April 2021 (or so) patch, Imperial Guard replaces Line Infantry (introduced through the same patch).
Very off to me.

Instead, if everybody else get Line Infantry. France should get more generic Fusiliers instead. these footmen can have the same Napoleonic uniforms but wore shakoes.

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4. And UC choices. equally lame. The Reasons behind 18th Bruamire Coup d'Etat (it was actually E. J. Sieyes's thinking. it was however hijacked by Napoleon who Sieyes only valued him as an instrument) was the Jacobin fears. Isn't there better UC choices for France?

 

[Zaarin]

What are 'Salons' as French knows?

A social club that met to discuss literature, philosophy, and the like. They were all the rage in Europe in the 18th through early 20th century based on French models. The most prestigious ladies hosted them, and anyone who was anyone jockeyed to be invited to them. Some were as intellectual as they ostensibly set out to be; others were just fashionable gossip clubs made respectable by "poetry."

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

Little late to this party - got my COVID shot this morning, so was out of the loop: and if side-effects kick in, may be back loopless by this afternoon . . .

The only thing I would debate regarding France as modeled is the Jacobins, a Terrorist organization if there ever was one. I notice that they did not include Jean-Baptiste Carrier among them: look up "vertical deportation" for a potentially ISIS-approved method of removing undesirables.

On the other hand, they could have used Philosophe for their Special Characters for France, a group that could have included:
Voltaire
Montesquieu
Rousseau
d'Alembert
Condorcet
Diderot
Saint-Simon
Fourier
- and even some prominent foreigners, like Locke, Hume, Adam Smith, Thomas Paine, Mary Wollstonecraft and Spinoza.

A more eclectic group for certainj. On the other hand, the attributes given to the Jacobins indicate that the names are just that and need have no real connection to the aspects they want in the game.


Not entirely. American Land Hunger was present from before the revolution. The Pennsylvania county I grew up in, in the middle of the state and middle of the Appalachian Mountains, was settled starting in the 1750s by people who already thought the area west of Philadelphia was getting 'too crowded' and despite the fact that the land was claimed by the Haudenosenee and was therefore not really safe for anybody else. And the settlement of the 'Old Northwest' - Ohio, Indiana country in the 1790s was every bit as aggressive and genocidal as anything that happened further west in the last half of the 19th century.

And if you stretch the definition a bit, 'Industrialization' was already starting with iron furnaces going up in eastern and central Pennsylvania right after the revolution, the start of major iron and steel manufacture that culminated in Pittsburgh later in the century. Not on the same scale, by any means, but significant in the earlier period.

Until you return to saddle. you can't discuss, agree or disagree over French UU choice ? while I already said this. that if FXis don't use Fusiliers as Tier0 unit names, they should give it to France as UU infantry name. more descriptive since Grand Armee consisted of millions of men under arms, and a million being footsloggers, so Fusiliers is more descriptive, and the name also predates, and survived past Napoleon Bonarparte's reign.
Me myself is sleeping when the party is going. very late at night.

And yes. I agree with this. France should also included 18th Century 'Enlightenment' 'Phillosophe'. their Tier0 being Napoleonics, fine (but the UU name is a no go). UC being 'Jacobins' (Those gentlemen are not what Emmanuel Joseph Sieyes, and Napoleon Bonaparte pleased), no.

Anyway, Age III has so many Infantry UUs, so far I've saw FIVE (Qing Bannermen, US Marines, Mexican Soldaderas, Budanda Modern Impis, and today French (Mislabled) Imperial Guard). I even expect Meiji Japan to have infantry UU (I even expected the name as well 'Battoutai' (抜刀隊) which also desciriptive, while itself not really correct when describing 'military unit. The functions as modern swordsmen representing Japanese infantry tactics that strongly emphasized on hand to hand combat from the beginning of Modernizations until the end of Empire (And there are good reasons to do, Navy emphasis means Army had to rely less on firepower and more on hand to hand combat, such as infiltration tactics, or ritualized human waves ) )

There's a video showing a rite that everyone in the Japanese line get a pint of clear White Spirit before charging Russian Fortress overlooking Lvshun. (Port Arthur). but can't remember where in the Youtube.

EDIT: I don't see Emmanuel Joseph Sieyes in the lists of Phillosophists you mentioned. Nor in the lists of Jacobins (because he's NOT! in fact he hates and fears Jacobins, the very reasons why he sommoned Napoleon Bonarparte to stage a Coup d'Etat on 18th Brumaire.). While in fact, he is a man who kicked off the Revolution, too bad he's all but forgotten. I think he should be added.
remember that he wrote 'What is the Third Estate?' treatise.

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

French Uniques!

Jacobins:

Paul Barras	1755-1829	The main leader of the Directory, the five-member committee of the French First Republic from 1795-1799.
Jacques-Nicolas Billaud-Varenne	1756-1819	Known as the Tiger and the Righteous Patriot, he was a French Lawyer and one of the most militant members of the Committee of Public Safety during the Reign of Terror.
Jacques Pierre Brissot	1754-1793	French journalist who was a leading member of the Girondists, who opposed the monarchy but resisted the more radical parts of the Revolution.
Etta Palm d'Aelders	1743-1799	A spy and revolutionary who spoke out for women's rights, addressing the National Convention in 1790 and founding the first female-only organization in French history.
Georges Danton	1759-1794	A lawyer who became the French Minister of Justice and was allegedly responsible for inciting the September Massacres. The first president of the Committee of Public Safety.
Camille Desmoulins	1760-1794	French journalist best known for giving a call to arms that sparked widespread unrest in Paris, culminating in the Storming of the Bastille. Later was a vocal critic of the Reign of Terror.
Olympe de Gouges	1748-1793	Playwright and activist best known for writing the Declaration of the Rights of Woman and of the Female Citizen. She was also a noted abolitionist and campaigned for a variety of social issues.
Jean-Paul Marat	1743-1793	Political theorist, scientist, and journalist who was known for his fierce and radical style of journalism. Also implicated as an instigator of the September Massacres. After his famous assassination he became a revolutionary martyr.
Maximilien Robespierre	1758-1794	Lawyer and statesman who was president of the National Convention and served as a member of the Committee of Public Safety. Commonly viewed as the face of the Reign of Terror.
Louis Antoine de Saint-Just	1767-1794	Revolutionary and political theorist who was renowned for his eloquence, as well as in shoring up the French Army. Was influential in the creation of the Constitution of Year I and the Declaration of the Rights of the Man and of the Citizen of 1793.

All but two died in 1793-1794, guillotined. and this included the very man who kicked off La Terreure himself -- Maximilien Robespierre.
The reasosn not to use Jacobins. Only two lived past Napoleon's reign. Varenne lived his final years in Haiti with Haitian government granted him a pension and shelther. Barras did not leave France after Bourbon returned. too old or too broke to leave maybe?

And these chaps were reviled by much, strongly associated with La Terreure (Robespierre himself is a symbol of the regime).

Insetad, phillosophe should be used and these were all Pre-Revolutions. and Sieyes should be prouldly included as one of them, as a man who kicked off the Revolution in the first place. (and who ended it, with the end result being Napoleon's ascendancy.

Alas. he's all too forgotten, when it comes to French Revolution documentary. Sieyes is least mentioned, and his famous political treatise 'What is the Third Estate?' is all bur forgotten. But my throughout study of French Revolution saw that he is no less Iconics than Robespierre.