New Civ:Ukraine

[Eskel]

I think Kievan Rus is a good predecessor to modern Ukraine; in medieval times countries very often lose their identity, independence and changed borders.
More important are people. And they were the same. Even if Rus nobleman were in fact polonized and thus there is no political continuum, the common people can derive their unique culture shape from this period - identity, language, even faith, which was orthodox first.

Why should we strip Ukrainians of their heritage?
I feel especially sensitive of this fact, because if Polish noblemen and kings would have accepted their cultural and ethnic difference, we could become one nation or at least federation. But they wanted to change Ukrainians in Poles, and treated them so. Rus knezh families become polish nobles, and the rest was put in serfdom...unsuccesfully, what ended up in many tragedies - but its a long story.
Ukrainians fought for their identity, and they deserve it. They didnt jump in there from the Mars, they lived there for centuries.

 

[Niccolo]

What? No Makhno?



http://www.nestormakhno.info/

Nestor Ivanovich Makhno (Philosophical, Aggressive) Favorite Civic: Emancipation

I suppose he was too anti-nationlist. He never did care for Petlura.

 

[SteveU]

To Eskel:
Nobody argues about heritage of Ukraine. I just meant the rule in Civ4 for selecting civs-leades (Monty not Mexican but Aztec etc).

To Nicollo:
I think Nestor Makhno would be good barbarian leader, because of his anarchist sights, he refused goverment in any kind. With treat Anarchical OR anti-Organized: maintenance doubled + 2 happiness

 

[Niccolo]

I think Nestor Makhno would be good barbarian leader, because of his anarchist sights, he refused goverment in any kind. With treat Anarchical OR anti-Organized: maintenance doubled + 2 happiness

Sort of. Not all settled societies have been states. I really don't like the vanilla Civilization interpretation of anarchy. One day, I'll get around to making an AnarchismMOD and replace civic switching unrest with "Chaos" instead of "Anarchy", add unique units like CNT-Milita, Tachanka, add leaders like Makhno, Durruti, Zapata, and Kim Jwa-Jin as leaders for the Free Soviets of the Ukraine, CNT-FAI of Spain, and the Korean People's Association in Manchuria, respectively. Also add some different civics for Free Soviets/Libertarian Communism, Anarcho-Syndicalism, Social Ecology and Participatory Economics. Or maybe GarretSidzaka will get to it before I do.

While Makhno was an anarchist, and the Makhnovshchina were very influenced by anarchism; most participants in the movement identified as Makhnovshchina; with a significant minority calling themselves anarchists as well as others who were Left Social Revolutionaries or even Bolsheviks.

Perhaps Makhno would be better for a World War 1 or Russian/Soviet Revolution scenario.

The Revolutionary Insurgent Army of the Ukraine (Makhnovitsi) was accountable to the regional congresses (held 4 times in 1919) of the free soviets of peasants and toilers.

Capitol: Gulyai-Polye

Cities:
Velyka Mykhailivka
Aleksandrovsk

Unique Unit: Tachanka Machine Gun Cart: It consisted of a Maxim M1910 machinegun placed in a light horse-drawn cart or wagon and was used to provide fire support for infantry and cavalry units.

 

[PW90]

Good Job
Could I use this civilization for my own modpack?

 

[Broken Legion]

I have a similar request as PW90, I'd like to take you already fine civ and put it with my CIS mod when my computer starts working properly

 

[kidman]

What about 1.61v patch compatibility?

 

[griderjn]

i may actually attempt to do this myself... but this is how i think the ukrainian civ should be.

CIVILIZATION: Ukraine; flag should be tryzub, blue symbol on yellow background or vice versa
UNIQUE UNIT: Cossack
STARTING TECHS: Agriculture, Mysticism
LEADER(S):
Khmelnitsky TRAIT1: Organized TRAIT2: Philosophical
Petlyura TRAIT1: Industrious TRAIT2: Philosophical
FAVORITE CIVIC: Emancipation

I could defend for quite some length but briefly:
unique unit: http://www.cossacks.kiev.ua/
starting techs: agriculture- duh; mysticism- except for hunting and possibly mining, nothing else really applies to the geographical region of ukraine, thus my argument is this, the mysticism tech allows for advancement down some of the roads that are relevant to ukrainian history
leaders: as mentioned in earlier posts, i too think there is/should be a distinct difference between what is/was ukraine and what was kievian-rus
Timoshenko nor Hrushevsky ever really "ruled/led/governed" ukraine
Svyatoslav although he was a ruler of the region, it was during the kievian-rus era
the traits are kind of my opinion, but i will try to defend them briefly:
Khmelnitsky was organized in that he established a lasting rapport with the scattered territorial leaders of the region; and philisophical in that along with his personal struggles he tried to fathom an independant ukraine, which is more philosophical than spiritual, especially when applied to his governing tactics
Petlyura was industrious in that it was the period of the world during his "governing" and ukraine somewhat defined its borders, and the capitol was kharkiv at some point, which can not be denied as an industrious metropolis; and philosophical in that he was actually involved in the movement for ukrainian independence

creative could be applied to khmelnitsky, possibly as it would create a unique trait combination not seen in the other "original" leaders, but definitely not petlyura...
the other traits: aggresive, expansive, financial or spiritual
just are not applicable to these to historical figures

i should not have to even think about explaining the civic of emancipation, but i will. no other civic so applies to the region and the peoples of ukraine more than emancipation! from historical beginnings and even through to today...
vassalage, serfdom, and especially nationhood come close but the benefits of vassalage and serfdom do not apply to the historical progress of ukraine, and while nationhood does more aptly relate, let's face it, ukraine has never been known for their succesful campaigns or significant military achievments, which is what the effect of that civic would allude to.

a short novel, perhaps, but i just thought i would share...

p.s. the zaporizhets, if utilized, could be the unique unit. it would be used deceptly by employing the "give this unit" command. the catch is this: it is extremely expensive to upkeep (like maybe double what everything else is), it does not have any defense or attack, and it costs to destroy the unit, but it is really inexpensive to develop and produce.