new civilization: Catalonia

Discussion in 'Civ4 - New Civilizations' started by zeysoft, Jan 16, 2006.

  1. Lucius Sulla

    Lucius Sulla Gens Cornelia

    Joined:
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    Gandia, home of the Borgia
    Hi, I agree that the Almogavers should replace the maceman rather than the swordsman. After all it was a medieval infantry, not the classical one.

    But, I don't agree that much with the bonuses. I don't think they fit the correct theme for theme. Let's examine what the Almogavers really were (not that the official units follow that kind of thing that much, but oh well... let's try in a mod).

    First of all, Almogavers were lightly armoured infantry, that based their tactics in a combination of shock and guerrilla (their usual choice of weapons were short swords and javelins), that had a high morale and that they were specially letal against cavalry, as shown against the turks in the Anatolian campaigns, but also against French or Frankish knights in the campaigns of Sicily and then in the fights against the Byzantines and the frankish duchies of Greece.

    So... possibilities are... excellent morale (starting with Combat I), shock tactics and good use of projectile weapons (initative attack), and very good against medieval cavalry (that would be knights). So, how about:

    UU: Almogavar
    Cost: 80
    From the standard Macemen:
    adds Possibility of 1 initiative attack
    adds +50% against cavalry
    adds Combat I

    By the way, and this is only related, but I have to say it.. why the heck does the middle ages units upgrade directly to industrial units such as Rifleman and Grenadier? I never understood why they don't upgrade to musketman, which is what really happened.

    And now, my own suggestions for the middle ages leaders (I find more appropiate not translating the names):

    Leader 1: Jaume (James) I (Agressive, Financial, Hereditary rule)

    Why the trait? I don't remember great public works in the history of Jaume I, nor any significant growth in demographics or agriculture or any otherwise non-belicist expansion (after all Expansive is rather related to granaries and docks, rather than militar expansion). So, I thought agressive is rather more appropiate (he is Jaume I 'the Conqueror' after all). Why financial? Jaume I, after the death of his father Pere II at the battle of Muret was hold hostage by the crusaders of southern france, and was educated by the templar knights. Knights who had a great and advanced network of the first actual banks of europe, and that constitued a tight economic net. When Jaume I reigned he did provide good cover to the templar chapterhouse, who helped him manage well and finance his campaigns.

    Leader 2: Pere (Peter) III (Philosophical, Expansive, Mercantilism)

    With Pere III, I have just varied the preferred civic. He was a far more feudal lord than his lord father, Jaume, and he actually inherited Sicily, even when he had to fight for it against the French. Still, a good deal of his effort was to consolidate and assert the catalan domain over Western Mediterranean, and to enforce the trade of the ports of Barcelona and Valencia, thus I thought an economic civic, being as it was one of the great forces behind his policies, was recommended. And since he actually favoured the products of his homeland, Mercantilism was recommended.

    Expansive thus is also a good trait, specially since he did stablish a golden age of economic but also demographic growth for the crown of Aragon. Philosophical I am not that sure... there were indeed a nice number of chronists and writers in his reign, but I am not sure if that would be significative enough. Anyway, since I can't think of a more appropiate one, I will not complain :D.

    Leader 3: Alfons II (Philosophical, Agressive, Vassalage)

    This is the grandfather of Jaume I, and the first Catalan king of Aragon (his actual christian name, and this is not a too well known fact, was 'Ramón Berenguer', but he did switch it to please his new aragonese subjects). Here the Philosophical trait really shines, since Alfons was known as 'the trovadour'. Under his rule a good deal of artists, theologicians and philosophers gathered in his courts. He was a good friend of Richard I the Lionhearted (not *that* kind of friend mind you, despite Richard's tendencies :p :D), and supported many of the most famous occitan poets of the time. Thus, philosophical is truly supported. His other face was the crusading one, and he did achieve a lot of conquests and got new territories for his crown. Expansive would be also a good choice, since he did inherit a great deal of territories north of the Pyrinees (a pity his son Peter lost nearly all of them), but we already have a phi/exp leader.

    I finally chose vassalage because that shows his rather more reliance over the feudal system, rather than the more absolute monarchy that the hereditary rule civic seems to represent more.
     
  2. Valencian

    Valencian Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2006
    Messages:
    4
    yes Zeysoft, I know... i meant on your post :goodjob:

    And Lucius ... Chapeau! :worship: you argumented the traits really good.
     
  3. Kimbal

    Kimbal Chieftain

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    Double Post, please delete
     
  4. Kimbal

    Kimbal Chieftain

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    First of all, great job on creating this new civil.

    A few notes.
    The name of the unique unit is "Almogàver" with an e and not an e, the a is the spanish translation of the name.

    Second, I do not agree 100% with the order of the cities, Hospitalet is almost a part of Barcelona, and Valencia & Palma should come in later, you also left the main cities of the other islands.
    Here there is a quite acurate map "http://personal.auna.com/1277509/mapaplc-com.html"

    Barcelona, Girona, Tarragona, Palma de Mallorca, València, Maó, Eïvissa, Lleida, Perpinyà, l'Alguer, Viella, Vic, Figueres, Martorell, Reus, Manresa, Terrassa, Sant Feliu de Llobregat, Balaguer, Puigcerdà, Ripoll, Berga, Andorra la Vella, Tortosa, Amposta, la Seu d'Urgell, Igualada, Banyoles, Olot, Balaguer, Alacant, Granollers, Sabadell, Alcoi, Sant Pau de Fenollet, Benavarri, Morella, Gandia, Pollença, Solsona, Tremp, Puigcerdà, Sort, Ceret, Vinaròs, Sagunt, Santa Coloma de Farners, Prada, Falset, Alzira

    About the UU, the "combat I" promotion is useless if 2/3 of the leaders are Aggressive, which would give him the promotion anyway.

    We know they were a very fast unit, so why not make them:

    UU: Almogavar
    Cost: 80
    From the standard Macemen:
    adds +50% against cavalry
    adds Commando

    Also the name is wrong:

    It should not be the spanish translation "catalan", I think "Catalonia" or "Països Catalans" ar far better choices

    Edit: Sorry for the double post
     
  5. zeysoft

    zeysoft Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Llagostera (Catalonia)
    New thread
    :thanx: Kimbal and Lucius Sulla, I will consider your opinions in the next version
     
  6. Kimbal

    Kimbal Chieftain

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    Thanks, I can't wait for the next version
     
  7. Lucius Sulla

    Lucius Sulla Gens Cornelia

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Gandia, home of the Borgia
    About the name, if all the other civs' names are translated to English, then this should be the same case. In English, the name of the country should be Catalonia, and the genitive adjective, thus, should be Catalan (as in 'Catalan Empire' as with the rest of the names in the civ selection screen).
     
  8. Metacomet

    Metacomet King

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2003
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    Location:
    USA
    As a catalonian countryboy living in the suburbian america I'm so glad that now I can play with "my civilization" :D :king: .

    Just one thing in the list city I will include Vilafranca del Penedes, because was an important catalonian city in the Middle Ages, and because I was born there too;)

    I hope to see an scenario soon
     
  9. zeysoft

    zeysoft Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Llagostera (Catalonia)
    New version: 3.1 for more information new thread

    @Metacomet, prenc nota, inclouré Vilafranca del Penedès a la pròxima versió
     

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