New Civilization: Vietnam (Vit Nam)

[Hadrean]

I beleive that you should include a south vietnamese leader and an optional south vietnamese flag because I hate communists and communism and always will...for the rest of my life.

 

[Leif]

I don't believe there is going to be an update, much less one with Southern Vietnamese stuff.

 

[CF4L]

I forgot to mention, I consider Uncle Ho the greatest leader of Vietnam. He was the mastermind behind defeating Japan, France, South Vietnam and the USA. It is also a great tragedy that he died of old age before he was able to see his country independent.

Also I don't mind your Viet Cong unit as it is. Works fine for me but the 30% upgrade with x2 movement in forest also seems more logical as 20% seems underpowered with units like 'cossacks' who are +3 strength and 50% vs. cavalry.

"uncle Hoe" did not defeat the US the US defeated the US.After Tet Ho had very little and was on the defensive. Not one US unit Surendered . So why did we loose you ask? Its simple ,we lost the propaganda war and had poor leadership in the whitehouse. Traitor Fonda dident help much either. Our rules of engagement prevented us from winning its that simple. The South Vietnamese were just as well trained but when we pulled out we also (quite stupidly) neglected to keep suplies coming to the southern Vietnamese

As far as the civ goes If your gonna make an ancient version or an earlier UU i would suggest the UU be Montagnards . just m 2 cents

 

[Koelle]

Whatever! You dont need to convince anyone that you won. Anyway, US go home! Btw, Montagnards are a minority ethnic group, who USED to live in Vietnam, not a UU

 

[ronnybiggs]

Um the South Veitnamese could hardly be called a civilization since they were a willing colony fo the US. The North Vietnamese were a nationalist movement in every sense of the word.

Awesome mod. My only critique is make sure your UU's units aren't TOO powerful. Infantry with two movement and ambush is quite a boost.

 

[Moonsinger]

-Emperor Quang Trung: the greatest vietnamese military strategist in my opinion. In his short reign, he managed to unite North and South Vietnam and defeated Siam's navy as well as 300.000 Chinese Qing troops in a blitz-krieg attack. He died at the age of 40 while preparing to conquer chinese provinces Guangdong and Guangxi, once vietnamese territories. He was the only one among the Viet to have dreamt of the conquest of China. He was also the only one capable of succeeding, for his military genius was unmatched. Here's an article about him: http://greenfield.fortunecity.com/crawdad/204/nguyenhue.html

IMO, he should be the leader of the Vietnamese civ. As for the UU, may I recommend the farmer. Unlike the Indian fast workers, the farmer is just an average worker, but he gets tripple the speed bonus for clearing jungles and building farm; he also have double movement points on jungles and forests.

 

[Torwaechter]

Greetings, Q-Meister!

I just discovered your mod, couldn't give it a try yet, though, since I'm at work at the moment.

Like some others here I was somehow offended at first, to see the communist flag and Uncle Ho as the leader (I'm descendant of Vietnamese refugees, born in Germany)

After some thoughts about it I could live with Ho, though you can't call him primarely a nationalist as several stated here. He was also a 100% communist. Fighting for national freedom and establishing a people's republic were his goals - he never considered a democracy.

But he was a great leader, so it's fine for me. It's not the same like with Adolf Hitler, who was also a great leader, but utterly destroyed Germany's culture and people.

One change I would absolutely recommend is the flag. The communist flag has no cultural background and is clearly bound to the communist system existing today. I don't think that it suits as a symbol for the Vietnamese culture as a whole.
You should consider taking yellow as the civilization's colour, as this was the traditional sign of Vietnamese for ages. You could also just take the flag with the three red stripes, which the South Vietnamese Republic took from the emperors, but it's also quite modern.

It was also used by some Vietminh forces fighting against Imperial Japan in the Second World War and against France in the First Indochina War. I think it was even the flag which was raised after victory at Dien Bien Phu, but I'm not sure. Ho Chi Minh was the leader of the Vietminh movement, but it wasn't a 100% communist organisation. Not too few were just nationalists or freedom fighters, who only later became communists by joining the 100% communist Vietcong after the establishing of the South Vietnamese Republic by France and the United States.

Please have a look at these articles as reference:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_the_Republic_of_Vietnam
http://www.vpac-usa.org/flag/The National Flag of VN.pdf
http://www.worldstatesmen.org/Vietnam.html
http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/vn_early.html
http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/vn-south.html


EDIT:
Perhaps it would be a good idea to change the UU's name from "Viet Cong" to "Viet Minh" since Vietnamese jungle guerilla tactics were not invented in the Second Indochina War but already long before in the preceeding wars.

 

[Koelle]

Like some others here I was somehow offended at first, to see the communist flag and Uncle Ho as the leader (I'm descendant of Vietnamese refugees, born in Germany)

It seems that being born in Germany doesnt make you be any diffenrent from your parents.

One change I would absolutely recommend is the flag. The communist flag has no cultural background and is clearly bound to the communist system existing today. I don't think that it suits as a symbol for the Vietnamese culture as a whole.

I agree with you that the flag has no cultural background. But where on earth do the flags have cultural background. Dont tell me that the stupid looking 3 colors flags in europe have it.

You should consider taking yellow as the civilization's colour, as this was the traditional sign of Vietnamese for ages. You could also just take the flag with the three red stripes, which the South Vietnamese Republic took from the emperors, but it's also quite modern.

Yellow has never been considered as the color of Vietnam. The Viets flag(similarily to the Chinese flag) has always been red for most of the time. If you know Vietnamese and ever read any ancient Vietnamese book, you will see these words so often: "ngon co dao" which means red flag. Sorry but i have to say the SVR and the emperors of the Nguyen dynasty, whom the SVR took the flag from, were the most disgraceful periods in Vietnam's history, where the leaders got to power not by themselves but by the help of foreigners, which had never happened before. It's insulting if anyone ever considers it as the flag of Vietnam as a whole

It was also used by some Vietminh forces fighting against Imperial Japan in the Second World War and against France in the First Indochina War. I think it was even the flag which was raised after victory at Dien Bien Phu, but I'm not sure.

The First Indochina War was fought by the Democratic Republic of Vietnam and the flag was the same as the current flag of Vietnam. Theres neither such thing called South Vietnam nor the yellow flag at that time. Those Viet refugees who said they fought at Dien Bien Phu are liers who dont want the others think of them as bitter pathetic losers who never win anything

Ho Chi Minh was the leader of the Vietminh movement, but it wasn't a 100% communist organisation. Not too few were just nationalists or freedom fighters, who only later became communists by joining the 100% communist Vietcong after the establishing of the South Vietnamese Republic by France and the United States.

oh yeah, you (and your parents) must have been very proud living in a state established by anyone else rather than your own people

 

[Torwaechter]

It seems that being born in Germany doesnt make you be any diffenrent from your parents.

Whereever you are born, the influence of your parents is ever the same.
And since the Federal Republic of Germany is not a communist regime, but a liberal Democracy, it's also not unusual to become a Democrat here.

But where on earth do the flags have cultural background. Dont tell me that the stupid looking 3 colors flags in europe have it.

Many of these stupid colors have a symbolic tradition in those countries. And don't forget all the crosses, or coat of arms, or eagles.
Don't get me wrong - red can become the new tradition of Viet Nam, but yellow is de facto the older tradition. We're not talking of the future, we're playing Civilization, and that's history. If I start in 3000 BC with a Vietnamese tribe, then the communist/modern red flag just does not feel right to me. It's just merely 50 years old.

Yellow has never been considered as the color of Vietnam.

Did you read the articles? The color yellow derives from an old flag of the Vietnamese Emperor. It is not the product of foreign influence.
And please note also, that almost all of the old Emperors stood in strong opposition to French colonialists and Christian missionaries (Gia Long not that much, but then starting from Minh Mang to his grandson Tu Duc and finally Ham Nghi). The Emperor's Flag was the banner with which his soldiers fought against the French at the end of the 19th century.
The yellow flag with the stripes was then later established by the "good" Emperor Thanh Thai and continued by his son Duy Tan, who both tried to free their country under this first national flag, but were exiled by the French before they could start.
If you face reality you should see that the yellow flag does also stand for Vietnamese independence and freedom. Thus, it was not surprising why the South Vietnamese Republic decided to take it as its flag. It's the same with West Germany, re-establishing Black-Red-Gold since they're the colors of German democrats.

And speaking of China - there is also an old yellow one here and the 5-colored flag of the first Republic with its strong symbolism:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Chinese_flags#Historical_national_flags

The First Indochina War was fought by the Democratic Republic of Vietnam and the flag was the same as the current flag of Vietnam. Theres neither such thing called South Vietnam nor the yellow flag at that time.

There was no South Vietnam, yes, but there were nationalists among the Viet Minh, who waved the old flag of Viet Nam. Ho Chi Minh didn't found Viet Minh on scratch - he united all the *existing* liberation forces under one command. Many of those were communist, yes, but there were also non-communist groups and persons.

oh yeah, you (and your parents) must have been very proud living in a state established by anyone else rather than your own people

We're not proud, but we're certainly glad to live in a liberal country where you are not put into prison just by surfing on the "wrong" websites.
No people should be proud of its state just because it was created by itself - you can only be proud of states which really do deserve this honour.
Plus, you should not forget that a democracy lives from contribution, and therefor it is easily possible for immigrants to be proud of their new home. The United States of America are the best example for strong patriotism among their immigrants.
Germany is probably one of the worst countries in terms of integration, but that's another story.

 

[dazman92]

is there a warlords version up yet?

 

[Wyz_sub10]

is there a warlords version up yet?

Not sure the author is still active, but there is a Vietnamese civ in CIV Gold for Warlords.

 

[Waterchan]

I hope the work for this mod is still progressing. I recently introduced my girlfriend to Civilization 4. She's Vietnamese, and when I told her about the existence of a Vietnamese mod, she was excited.

I noticed the units don't speak Vietnamese yet. It would be very nice if they did.

 

[jkp1187]

Viet Cong, I love it. That's the derisive term coined by angry US politicians.

Yeah, um, actually, this was a term coined by Ngo Dinh Diem -- an abbreviation of Viet Nam Cong San. (Apologies for my lack of competence with the accents used in Quoc Ngu...)

Thanks, though; I appreciate the blind prejudice of some of the posters in this thread!

--An Ignorant American

 

[Okima]

umm guys i need help downloading this whenever i click on the download thingy it goes to a diff website

 

[mamba]

Maybe the fact that the website is called www.filegone.com should tell you something (that and that the last post was January 2007).

Get Civ Gold if you need a Vietnam.

 

[MadmanOfALeader]

This flag issue is pretty controversial...

The old flag is currently banned in Vietnam. As a result, I've turned the seal of Hanoi into a decal.