Discussion in 'Civ4 - New Civilizations' started by CivArmy s. 1994, Nov 20, 2005.
the 1st preview of King Ragnar, suggestions for changes r welcome
EDITED: OLD PREVIEW REMOVED
I like how you have a kind of blue helmet, but it seems to be practically the only object of significant color in the picture. So maybe try a blue cape over some leather (a similar color to the beard -- so maybe some bear skin?).
I would prefer:
Civ name: Scandinavians or Norse
UU: Viking (amphibious Swordsman with +1 to combat)
(Oh, Birka isn't the oldest town of Sweden since it has been gone for a looong time. Skara still exists.)
on ragnar, i would say that his shoulders are not "wide" enough...
He's a Viking, and we all can imagine him very strong, but it only seems a little...weak (and his head look very big compared to the rest of his body)
I agree about the helmet, there is something wrong here, but i don't know what.
I tried give Athletic style to some LHs, but they turn too big to be in front of the camera, stay strange
U r right about the head, it is 10% higher the model size, I did that cos some of the Firaxis LHs look like use this too, mainly Ganghi. They r a bit cartoonish.
As I said on other thread, I've founded several Internet problems today, so, I will try post the new preview of this LH today, if these problems allow me to do that...
add some braiding in his beard
just to be pedantic, york was roman founded and prior to that there were settlements - much like any major city of significance in the olde world, it came and went on the same location many times over under different leaderships with little or no relation other than local peoples
aint history a beautiful but nightmarish thing
to be fair, as a history fan, yorkshireman, living just off the isle of axholme and surrounded by norse founded towns and settlements, I can guarantee that despite not having various accents on letters that they are indeed viking names for the places or at worst viking-ised versions due to language differences.
Some names on the list are indeed anglicised in order to make them more readily acceptable in the game and more friendly to the eye when playing so Burghs ar Boroughs (but then if we had English in the game as it was during the time of Chaucer or Shakespeare or during Regency or Victorian times it'd go from totally unrecognisable to more palatable to nearly modern. it's just how languages evolve.
If we're to be completely accurate in Civ4 then we should be making vast slashes across the whole game removing anglicisms from city names (Munich, Bombay etc) and changing scripts for various cultures to display VERY westernised names like Baghdad, and so on.
A point in sample - Dieppedale - in the vale or valley of dieppe, at the end of which is now founded dieppe and not far from rouen, the ancient city of french kings. dieppedale came before dieppe though. the name was repeated in England as Deepdale. There are no other local civilisations or cultures that generated similar names in either area.
In fact you can almost immediately identify a viking settlement in the old Danelaw purely by the name.
some are so specific it's unreal. As a rule of thumb, if it ends "by" or "thorpe" then it's viking, and then there's so many more.
I purposely left out the Grimston hybrids to make sure it was less controversial .
They're not exclusive rules and of course there's more traditional names seen but to exclude Gainsborough because it doesn't sound much like Trondheim or Oslo is a false reckoning. Caerdyff (Cardiff) sounds nothing like Llantrisant, but both are Welsh. Always bear in mind that in the areas on the fringes of a civilisations' influence there will be a less traditional sounding name too, in order to assimmilate with the local population. The occurence of burgs and bourgs on the franco-german border is a good demonstration of this - but local identities would have been fiercely different at times, while eerily similar to outsiders.
What I WOULD say in agreement though is that the placing of them near the top of the list is wrong since they came several hundred years into the Viking story, around 60% through their story, though some are significant enough in merit or significance to be up amongst the more recognisable nordic settlements. For example, Jorvik and Whitby.
Taking the point of Gainsborough, it was differently named as the Burh of Gaini, and simply a fortification for the local ruling elite to live and do leader-like things. The vikings took over a nearby site 5 miles away called Torksey which was a regular town, then the fortification of the gaini followed quickly culturally not militarily.
the official rulers and kings continued to fortify it further as invasions went on elsewhere northward and despite being a point for defence it was so Danish and had been for 100 years that there was never a fight when the 'invasion' came, and it was already renamed in the viking dialect to Gainsborough.
(in more detail - Gainsborough is actually believe it or not the "viking-ised" version of the place's name, since the nordic 'guests' were unable to pronounce the full name of the burh of the gaini - or fortification of the gaini, a local tribe who'd built up the site under the Mercians (most place names were simply based on the local tribe under a regional king or warlord at the time). In fact the old castle where the church is now was one of Offa's most significant fortifications (offa is the fellow who had a huge dyke built between england and wales as a defensive barrier).
It was Britain's most inland port and although smaller than Torksey, a little further upstream was the more significant site, since it was the major fortification that had to be passed to reach the towns further up. It was around 790ish that Gainsborough was actually sailed past by the vikings, and Torksey was taken over then subsequently Gainsborough was annexed - because it was too heavily fortified to have been the initial point of attack.
The area became almost exclusively Danish and a heck of an important town and so danish in fact that when the main 'invasions' of around 865 were taking place, Gainsborough was left untouched since it was already sympathetic.
It was a significant fortification too with Alfred, who met and married his wife there, Elswitha Muchel, who was the daughter of the earl of the gaini - a significant political move since she was to all intents and purposes a Danish citizen although born and bred in the fortified settlement (still not really a town).
Its significance in Viking history in England became major at around this time when it ceased to be an annexed fortification with the local ruler housed there, and developed into a town, a trading post, and centre for local and international commerce too, since it was the norse stronghold to which Guthrum retreated after the treaty of Wedmore, following his defeat to Alfred at Edington in Somerset. Alfred the Great effectively gave an astounding peace settlement despite being in a position to crush the norse enemy at the time, and 'signed' peace terms with Guthrum the Dane, and effectively gave half of England away from the thames to the tees, to become the Danelaw on the agreement that Guthrum be baptised - and was the 2nd settlement of significance on English soil and the premier site within Danelaw because of it being so strong, so locally influential and the most inland point they could sail to and bring their trade through)
in short, don't discount a place name as a seriously major name in Viking history and worth a place in the game, because it would look out of place in a map of northern Denmark .
hmmm, when all said and done and considered, maybe the game needs a mod-pack to "evolve" civilisations then, and when key advances are discovered, treaties made or cities taken a civilisation should completely change, so English becomes British, Viking becomes Danish, Roman becomes Italian, Gauls become French, Mongols become the Khanate Chinese, American settlers become Americans then Hillbillies/Rednecks
That way we can satisfy the theme-minded, the historical minded, the culturally minded and the game-minded
Would you include the germanic hordes as AI barbarians or playables?
and what about the north western lands of England and Scotland to go along with them, significant sources of wealth for the Vikings.
There'd need to be the introduction of Offah, Alfred, Aethelred and various other kings od wessex/mercia/anglia or a semi-fictional united 'english' to either battle with, culturally invade, or tie up with politically.
has huge scope on an enormous map to take in the whole viking era.
LH ideas - since you're adding realism but recognising the more cartoony aspects of some like the Egyptians, why not allow some of one to bleed into the other and accept a little artistic license?
A couple of broad vertical red stripes on the sail, for example, or a design in black?
Using a norse war helm on the LH that covers the eye area like a carnival mask (see the cover of "the viking art of war") would allow some area for fancy engraved design-work to reflect the shoulder pieces?
It's good as it is, but might need a splash of colour.
Are you going to change their UU from a ship to amphibious warrior? I think the way it wa done in CIV3 captures the right feel.
ya the scenario should totally include the british isles arent they considered northern europe anyway?as for the germanic hordes, i don't know, vikings would replace barbarians.... maybe 2 barbarian types, difined by their own uu. any suggestions, i would love to get his scenario up and running. input people input.
should include the germanic tribes as the beginnings of the holy roman empire, maybe...? not entirely historically accurate but a vital piece of the viking jigsaw-puzzle later on.
And yes, the new UU is Berserker replacing Axeman with Amphibious Power
for the UU, just amphibious promotion seems to be a little "light", add him another promotion (maybe city raider I)
amphibious promotion + 1 more power point.
he really needs braids in his beard maybe a few small animal skulls too
I'll try to do that, but I'm pretty sure I won't able to do that (missing free props for that).
I'll try to release the new version of this civ this weekend
And? When do you start making animated LH's for your new civ(s)?
Btw, perhaps the skin in the link is usefull for the viking civ?
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