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New Civilization: Vikings

Discussion in 'Civ4 - New Civilizations' started by CivArmy s. 1994, Nov 20, 2005.

  1. Fridrikr

    Fridrikr Chieftain

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    Oh my god... Talking about misinformation. This is probably the best example one can find! Too much for me to find the energy to comment on.
     
  2. majk-iii

    majk-iii Eeh?

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    There's hardly even a single word of truth in above statement.
    ...i'm not gonna mention the spelling.
    What's wrong with you?
     
  3. The Swede

    The Swede Viking

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    My viking flag is white....

     
  4. civterror

    civterror Chieftain

    Joined:
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    In regards to Unique Units:

    The berserker axeman is a natural for amphibious assult promotion it would seem, but not very historically correct and a bit upsetting to the game, I think. Sure, they sailed off and the longboats were easy to beach \ unbeach, but that was basically it. An amphibious assult entails carrying equipment for defeating obstacles in the landing area, and in those days, such obstacles rarely, if ever, existed. Natural obstacles in the landing area is another thing, but the longboats were not equpiied to handle anything of that sort either. Amphibious berserkers are thus not historical. The berserkars are a bit of a mythical creature in the history of the norsemen, but were said to be individuals who were clad in bear-skin in lieu of armor and drank mead with poisonous\hallusinogenic mushrooms in it before they went into battle. These and many other stories are attached to them, few of these stories are more than just that, stories. But for unique unit, I an hard pressed to come up with a better idea myself, so here is my dream berserker:

    Axeman +1 (6) strength
    Immune to first strikes (they would rush in and not hang about waiting to be shot up)
    + 50 % strength vs. spearmen\pikemen (chopping through the spears with reckless abandon)
    -10 to 30 HP (they were said to not wear armor)
    +25% city attack on cities without city walls (the vikings did not give a s**t about foreign cultures)


    The longboats. They were fast, the norse sailors were brave and skilled and were thus able to cross the North Atlantic to America before anyone else in documented history. The longboat UU, if portrayd as it should be, would ensure that picking vikings give you the circumnavigation bonus automatically. It would be fun to give the longboats the ability to sail up a river and unload amphibious berserker units, and it would also be historically accurate, the swedish vikings had loads of fun in russia in this manner. I think that the longboat might be over-powered by it's mere existence if given the proper specs. The viking "civ" as it was, was neithr strong enough or motivated enough to exploit the huge edge these vessels might have gained them. So, they are not fit to be in the game.
     
  5. Bjornlo

    Bjornlo Deity

    Joined:
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    Hjørungavåg
    Russian meant land of the Rus, or land ruled by the Rus. Rus was the "russian" word for viking, not blonde. The orignal Czars were swedes.
    Ceaser did not use Vikings, but they were used in Constantinople quite a few years later. There is still viking graffiti carved into the backs of several ancient churches and such were they stationed them. They were refered to as the Varangian guard.
    I've no idea who or what Sicily was named after, but it was not ruled by Vikings, but their decendents the Normans. Normans were vikings that were granted the very large western dutchy of "france" by the King of the Franks in exchange for not attacking them any more and swearing loyalty to him. By the time they got around to conquering the southern parts of Italy they were hardly vikings any more. They certainly were viking decendents, cousins if you wish.
    The Norwegians were typically the largest of the Vikings, which was helpful since they were also the least numerous. But I know of nothing to suggest that the Germans ran from any Norwegians in the employ of Valdemar.
    And while the Swedish actions during WW2 were shameful, there is nothing to suggest that they were founded by "Norwegian rejects". I rather suspect it would have gone the other way (not that there is any truth to that either), but in general the swedish lands are easier and the Norwegians ones more rugged.... Why would the easier lands be considered 2nd best? Yes I know Norway has a slightly milder winter if you happen to live on the coast. I also know Norway has a little better fishing. But since both nations can trace habitation back 1000's of years, I think it safe to say that neither one was 2nd choice to the other. I think it is fairly clear that all the scandinavian people are closely related. I don't know the current social-anthropological theory, but I'd bet they all came as a single tribe or series of tribes from a common location. Consider that even today Dane's Swedes and Norwegians look very similar far more alike then different.
     
  6. Thasis

    Thasis Warlord

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    Vancounver, BC, Canada
    Ragnar's looking nice. I'm DLing this as I type.
     
  7. Ingvina Freyr

    Ingvina Freyr wants a Steamfree option

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    A "historical fact" is a guess, not yet proved wrong! But in this thread there are some of the worst abuses of "historical facts" that I have ever seen!:spank: We all have to be more careful with our statements.
    Having said this, here are mine...:mischief: There are a lot of names for different germanic tribes and subtribes. Sometimes they merge under one (new or old) name, and sometimes there are several names for the same tribe. These names seems to have to do with were they lived, but sometimes small cultural differences can be noticed. During late iron age (wich includes the viking age in some countries) I have found five names for major tribes in what is now Den/Nor/Swe (please fill in if I have missed any). Danes, Jutes, Swedes, Geats (Götar), and northmen (norweigans). There were several small kingdoms and even more chiefdoms, but three major kingdoms formed during this era. The borders between these kingdoms shifted constantly and sometimes one king ruled over more than one of them. The struggle for power was personal and not so much a fight between different nations. In my opinion, there was (and is) less differences between scandinavians than it is between some german provinces, and definitly among the people on the british isles (Welshmen, Englishmen, Scots and Irishmen. In conclusion; calling the Civ Scandinavian is not only practical but also somewhat historical accurate.:thumbsup:
    A Scandinavian UU (if not any of the different boats) could be the viking:viking: , an amphibious, fast and strong cityattacker.
    The meaning of the word viking is debated. I have studied this at the university, and most people agree that it's connected to the word vig, wich means fight or battle. (The rune for K and G is the same during the viking age). Viking would then simply mean fighter or warrior.

    About the citylist. Uppsala was "founded" around the year 0, the king of Uppsala ruled over all the other Swedish (and later also Geatish) kings and chiefs. It was also the place for the great golden temple with statues of Odin, Thor and Frey, later replaced with the doomchurch and the archbishopry. Somewhere at the top of the list I would say...:thanx:
     
  8. Elmstr

    Elmstr Warlord

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    wow this idea rocks :p
     
  9. darkedone02

    darkedone02 The Suggestor

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    What music site do you go to get that song for the diplomancy screen? I love that celtic-like song.
     
  10. shakadamonkey

    shakadamonkey Chieftain

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    There is strong documentary evidence to suggest Berserkr did exist, but as more of a mystical class of fighter, sort of like an Odhinn-worshipping "Knight Templar", secret society type of order. Hallucinogenics, ritual, and rigorous traditional training would make these fighters akin to Samurai in some aspects. And similar to some of their analogous warrior-monks in other cultures, some cities had a bit of a problem with their presence and actually outlawed them. I think it would be exceedingly unrealistic to have a scenario where "Vikings" have gigantic stacks of Berserkr. Their presence would normally be about 20 in an army of about 2000.

    Longboats that could navigate rivers and open ocean would be a more realistic UU, because those were ubiquitous throughout the Nordic world, and a king wasn't a king without a FLEET. Even a jarl wasn't considered worth much if he didn't have longboats. In military parlance, when making war plans, military strength was given in terms of how many ships a jarl could field, rather than how many men. That should give an idea of the significance the longboat had for "Viking" wars and warriors.

    I think the way to portray Nordic prowess with axe-fighting or melee fighting in general is to make all the leaders *aggressive* so they get the +1 promotion and quickly build barracks, rather than invent a "Berserkr" unit which ends up more prevalent in the game than it ever was in real life.

    On the subject of the Rus, Rus comes from the Finnish name for Sweden, Ruotsi. The name Ruosti, it is argued, arose from roosmenn, men of the rowing-way, the people of today's Roslagen, the Rowing-Law, the coastal area of Swedish Uppland. Those were the people known to the Finnish, whether the Vikings came from Denmark, Sweden or Norway. As the Swedes extended their vikingr raids from the Baltic southward to Slavic lands, the Slavs increasingly heard tales of them via Baltic peoples who generally used a common permutation of the Finnish term: Rus.
     
  11. Ingvina Freyr

    Ingvina Freyr wants a Steamfree option

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    :goodjob:This is all very accurate, especially the fact that it's a subject of great debate. Personally I strongly argue against the suggestion that the Finnish word Ruotsi (Estonian Rootsi) comes from the name of the area Roslagen. Rodhzlagen (old Swedish spelling) is mentioned in writing for the first time in the1400s. Rodhen is mentioned in the 1200s. Contact between Swedes and the Baltics and Finns must have been made at least a thousand years earlier, maybe more. At that time the area of modern Roslagen was largely under water (ie:didn't exist). The names Roslagen and Roden derives from the word for rowing (just as you said) and that word could very well be what influenced the Finns when nameing the Swedes, especially considering the fact that scandinavians belonged to a seafaring culture, while the Finnish people belong to a typical forrest-culture. If anyone would like to do some research on this issue, I would suggest that you start by asking a finnish linguist if the word Ruotsi derives from a foreign word or if its a finno-ugric word. It could mean something completely different... :confused:
     
  12. Carewolf

    Carewolf Gammelt røvhul

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    Location:
    Copenhagen
    This is normally the case of medieval war, but it's slightly different in Scandinavia. There are many tales from the Viking age where swedes and danes meet somewhere in Europe and doing battle. It is even more pronounced in old Norwegian tales, that all claim danes and swedes to be weak cowards. The story about swedes being Norwegian outcasts is actually a typical Norwegian folktale from the viking-age. So while the peasants and fishers probably didn't care who ruled them, there was certainly a level of nationalism among warriors and story-tellers.
     
  13. Ingvina Freyr

    Ingvina Freyr wants a Steamfree option

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    I haven't found any evidence that suggests that Swedes, Danes and Norwegians fought each other just because they were Swedes, Danes and Norwegians. A warrior would pledge allegiance to the one lord that best could provide him with what he needed (money, power, fame, glory etc), and the lord and his hird would certainly go to war against other Scandinavian chieftains or kings to increase their power. The rest of the people (95% of the population?) wouldn't move around, but could instead overthrow any ruler that didn't provide them with what they needed (protection, religious practice etc).

    The entire iron age seems to me like a long process towards unification of Scandinavia, a project that eventually succeded in the middle-ages with the Kalmarunion.

    "We're so good, and they're so bad"-stories are to be found just about everywhere and on all levels. I bet you, being from Copenhagen, have a few about the provincial people of Jutland.:lol:
     

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