The side of me who loves playing RPGs as much as Strategy games, it is hard for me to associate the word dungeon to anything else but big places for you to explore, get items and fight monsters... so had a momentary shock when I read dungeon on the stream.
I missed the beginning, as for the advanced start, I guess it's to bypass the antiquity age? Maybe some people just want to see exploration age civs, but to me the antiquity age still seems like it will be the best part. I still feel like Civ 7 will be like older civs that start out strong, and progressively get weaker as the game goes on. But we'll see what the modern age has in store for us.
The side of me who loves playing RPGs as much as Strategy games, it is hard for me to associate the word dungeon to anything else but big places for you to explore, get items and fight monsters... so had a momentary shock when I read dungeon on the stream.
I missed the beginning, as for the advanced start, I guess it's to bypass the antiquity age? Maybe some people just want to see exploration age civs, but to me the antiquity age still seems like it will be the best part. I still feel like Civ 7 will be like older civs that start out strong, and progressively get weaker as the game goes on. But we'll see what the modern age has in store for us.
I missed the beginning, as for the advanced start, I guess it's to bypass the antiquity age? Maybe some people just want to see exploration age civs, but to me the antiquity age still seems like it will be the best part. I still feel like Civ 7 will be like older civs that start out strong, and progressively get weaker as the game goes on. But we'll see what the modern age has in store for us.
I think it is really great that Firaxis not just added the Shawnee as a playable civ but worked so closely with members of the Shawnee tribe to get the details right, from the language, music buildings, units, etc... That shows a respect for the culture and a great attention to detail.
After the livestream I read the story of Tecumseh and he was truely a brave man. Up there with people like Lawrence of Arabia, Che Guevara etc.
Great to see him as a leader and learn about.
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What could the dungeon mean in game terms? I have no idea what it means in real life, a place to storage wine?
'Dungeon' is one of those English words that has dramatically changed its meaning since the Medieval Era.
Originally the word in French was donjon or dongeon and it meant the same as 'keep' - the main tower or central fortified place of a castle.
Since some English and Scottish castles also included places to keep prisoners, the word came to mean a prison cell by the 15th - 16th century.
That, we are assuming, is the meaning they are assigning to it in the game, but we aren't completely certain what its in-game function and bonuses might be.
I'd call them more Great Lakes in origin though they wandered all over the Eastern Woodlands. I'd be more concerned that they'd share a similar design space.
Castles were indeed used as jails in the early modern period, but mass incarceration as a method of preserving law and order is much more modern than that.
Convicted criminals in England prior to the early 19th century would have faced execution or, for more minor offences, public shaming in the stocks or pillory. Prisons as we know them today didn’t appear until after the period of penal transportation to Britain’s colonies.
So while it’s not yet clear what the Dungeon does, having it be a specialised building to preserve law-and-order seems anachronistic to me.
Castles were indeed used as jails in the early modern period, but mass incarceration as a method of preserving law and order is much more modern than that.
Convicted criminals in England prior to the early 19th century would have faced execution or, for more minor offences, public shaming in the stocks or pillory. Prisons as we know them today didn’t appear until after the period of penal transportation to Britain’s colonies.
So while it’s not yet clear what the Dungeon does, having it be a specialised building to preserve law-and-order seems anachronistic to me.
Mass incarceration is another of those things that was, then was not, then was again.
Rome had the Tullianum, or Mamertine Carcer (prison), established in 640 BCE to house convicted prisoners in the city sewer.
After that, mass incarceration disappeared in Europe (although it may have still been used as a punishment in medieval Songhai) until, as posted, the early 19th century, when the 'reform' movement took hold and started replacing mutilation, shaming or the death penalty with 'discipline and labor' - imprisonment with hard labor attached.
This is partly why I said that we cannot be entirely certain what function the 'dungeon' building has yet. They were, after all, originally defensive structures, then places of confinement only for high-ranking prisoners from the nobility, and the term was not really applied to mass imprisonment until fairly late. That means the building could be related to general law and order or political stability or purely military defenses, all within the Exploration Age if that age extends to the beginning of the 19th century.
It was a bit of a nothingburger stream in terms of game information, unfortunately. Nothing major was revealed, and that's a bit disappointing.
But what I did take away was that the Shawnee consultation was in the works for a full three years, and the devs integrated a massive amount of feedback into their design. That is kind of a double-edged sword in a way
On one end, it encourages other native groups that are sensitive about their depiction in video games (think: the Maori in Civ6 who received similar treatment), to have their culture immortalised in a medium that respects their cultural identity which is fantastic. We may see the Shawnee in future iterations as well, or even in other Civ-likes.
On the other, it also indicates that depictions like the Shawnee are massive timesinks and it's unlikely we'll get many of that calibre in Civ7.
Unfortunately, knowing so far only the derivation of the word and its uses during the Exploration Age, there are multiple possibilities: security, happiness, loyalty - the Workhouse aspect of the early prisons could even be used to provide a Production Bonus!
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