New developer livestream coming Oct 8: Tecumseh featuring Shawnee Special Guests!

[The_J]

Most interesting pics from the live stream, IMHO:
It's interesting to see that each tile will have really climate properties, as we can see that some have an icnreased flood risk.
Also the overview of the advanced start is nice.

 

[Inawordyes]

It was a bit of a nothingburger stream in terms of game information, unfortunately. Nothing major was revealed, and that's a bit disappointing.

But what I did take away was that the Shawnee consultation was in the works for a full three years, and the devs integrated a massive amount of feedback into their design. That is kind of a double-edged sword in a way

On one end, it encourages other native groups that are sensitive about their depiction in video games (think: the Maori in Civ6 who received similar treatment), to have their culture immortalised in a medium that respects their cultural identity which is fantastic. We may see the Shawnee in future iterations as well, or even in other Civ-likes.

On the other, it also indicates that depictions like the Shawnee are massive timesinks and it's unlikely we'll get many of that calibre in Civ7.

Quality over quantity, I suppose?

Perhaps, but given that a civ does not necessarily need to have an accompanying leader this time, it may actually work out to be able to have more of those consultations, as perhaps there isn’t a good leader choice or (like the Pueblo) they are culturally sensitive to depictions of their past leaders. Since the majority of the dev time is spent on the leader, more consultations could occur for Civilizations, which would allow quality and quantity both (in theory)

On that note, if the Pueblo council would consider it, this is absolutely the best time to approach them for inclusion, as you wouldn’t need to include Popé or another leader, but could simply represent the Pueblo themselves as a civilization

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Are those little crosses our first glimpse of religion?

Edit:
There's also the Hindu symbol in another city. Definitely religion

 

[Ryansinbela]

View attachment 705598
Are those little crosses our first glimpse of religion?

highly possible

 

[Siptah]

View attachment 705598
Are those little crosses our first glimpse of religion?

I wonder why it requires that the same symbol is shown twice.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Must be an Abbasid missionary

 

[moysturfurmer]

I wonder why it requires that the same symbol is shown twice.

If I had to guess, I would assume it means something like number of religious civs. I could imagine a system where a city has 3 Protestant pips and 2 Catholic pips, and that city would be considered a Protestant city.

Blind speculation though.

 

[Siptah]

If I had to guess, I would assume it means something like number of religious civs. I could imagine a system where a city has 3 Protestant pips and 2 Catholic pips, and that city would be considered a Protestant city.

Blind speculation though.

But why show the same twice then when there is nothing else present? You could just have one to show majority or in case you want to show minorities as well and the ratio between religions, you would need more symbols.

My first guess is that the amount of symbols shows the pressure the city exerts.

 

[Aeon221]

Maybe the dungeon combats unhappiness or disloyalty.

And then the modern version provides happiness

 

[Aeon221]

But why show the same twice then when there is nothing else present? You could just have one to show majority or in case you want to show minorities as well and the ratio between religions, you would need more symbols.

My first guess is that the amount of symbols shows the pressure the city exerts.

My guess is bug. Simplest answer that explains the available evidence!

 

[chaosprophet]

Oh something interesting I didn't notice before (or is this the first time it is in a build shown to us?), that cities has the leader face on the left of the city name while towns don't

 

[Disgustipated]

After the livestream I read the story of Tecumseh and he was truely a brave man. Up there with people like Lawrence of Arabia, Che Guevara etc.
Great to see him as a leader and learn about.

I was doing some reading as well, and while he does have the charismatic qualities we like to see in a leader, it's always strange to me to see one on the "losing side". His goal was noble, but even complete unification of all the tribes probably wouldn't have worked. Perhaps the other tribal chiefs were wiser and more pragmatic to accept the treaties and carve out what little piece of land they could. Of course the U.S. broke those treaties, but I can see their reasoning to basically "see the writing on the wall" and broker some sort of deal. But it's good to learn what the religious focus of this leader and civ came from.

I'm still going to play as him though, as this is a game of "what if's" after all.

 

[Zaarin]

I was doing some reading as well, and while he does have the charismatic qualities we like to see in a leader, it's always strange to me to see one on the "losing side". His goal was noble, but even complete unification of all the tribes probably wouldn't have worked. Perhaps the other tribal chiefs were wiser and more pragmatic to accept the treaties and carve out what little piece of land they could. Of course the U.S. broke those treaties, but I can see their reasoning to basically "see the writing on the wall" and broker some sort of deal.

Tecumseh wasn't looking for a war; William Henry Harrison was because he knew it would help his political aspirations back east. Even then, he didn't succeed in goading Tecumseh into a war; he succeeded in goading Tenskwatawa into a war while Tecumseh was away. Tenskwatawa was charismatic and visionary, but he lacked sense as a practical leader--and was quick to lose his temper. Tecumseh wanted peace; President Quincy Adams wanted peace; William Henry Harrison, then governor of the Northwest Territories, wanted war and deliberately disobeyed orders from Washington to get one. Tecumseh only sided with the British when he had nowhere else to turn. So it's less that Tecumseh was on the losing side or that he wasn't open to pragmatic options; he took the only option left to him.

But it's good to learn what the religious focus of this leader and civ came from.

Worth noting that Tecumseh seems to have been a rather nominal convert to his brother's religion. Publicly he supported Tenskwatawa and understood that Tenskwatawa's religion was good for his movement (especially his preaching against alcohol, which was already a problem for many Native Americans), but he also, for example, wore European clothes--e.g., he was very proud of his British officer's uniform.

(By the way, the various works of R. David Edmunds are a great place to learn more about the Shawnees, and in particular his work The Shawnee Prophet is a fascinating insight into how Tenskwatawa's strengths and shortcomings both contributed to Tecumseh's movement. I can also second Chief Barnes's recommendation of Stephen Warren. The World the Shawnees Made is great. IIRC both are available on Brill, if you have access to that through a university.)

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

(By the way, the various works of R. David Edmunds are a great place to learn more about the Shawnees, and in particular his work The Shawnee Prophet is a fascinating insight into how Tenskwatawa's strengths and shortcomings both contributed to Tecumseh's movement. I can also second Chief Barnes's recommendation of Stephen Warren. The World the Shawnees Made is great. IIRC both are available on Brill, if you have access to that through a university.)

I can also recommend a newer book: Tecumseh and the Prophet, by Peter Cozzens, 2020. He references the books by Edmonds and Warren and about 400 other publications, plus makes a great use of archive material from numerous midwestern and eastern Universities and 'Letter Books' of correspondence from American and British contemporaries about the Shawnee. It was billed by the publisher as a biography of Tecumseh, but it also covers more generally events in the Old Northwest around the Shawnee and the other tribes in the area that interacted with them.

 

[Leyrann]

I was doing some reading as well, and while he does have the charismatic qualities we like to see in a leader, it's always strange to me to see one on the "losing side". His goal was noble, but even complete unification of all the tribes probably wouldn't have worked. Perhaps the other tribal chiefs were wiser and more pragmatic to accept the treaties and carve out what little piece of land they could. Of course the U.S. broke those treaties, but I can see their reasoning to basically "see the writing on the wall" and broker some sort of deal. But it's good to learn what the religious focus of this leader and civ came from.

But isn't that part of the appeal, in particular when it comes to this instalment? Civilizations - and people- rise and fall, and both of those sides are represented.

And, indeed, as you said, the 'what if' scenarios.

 

[Disgustipated]

Tenskwatawa was charismatic and visionary, but he lacked sense as a practical leader--and was quick to lose his temper. Tecumseh wanted peace; President Quincy Adams wanted peace; William Henry Harrison, then governor of the Northwest Territories, wanted war and deliberately disobeyed orders from Washington to get one. Tecumseh only sided with the British when he had nowhere else to turn. So it's less that Tecumseh was on the losing side or that he wasn't open to pragmatic options; he took the only option left to him.

Good stuff, thanks.

And I don't mean to use the word losing side in a bad way. After all, Napoleon was on the losing side as well.

 

[Nikolai II]

I wonder why it requires that the same symbol is shown twice.

Perhaps there is two levels of conversion?

 

[Evolena]

Oh something interesting I didn't notice before (or is this the first time it is in a build shown to us?), that cities has the leader face on the left of the city name while towns don't

This is not new. What IS new is the star for the capital city.

 

[Giskler]

Finally getting around to watching the stream. Have we seen pigs resource before?

Edit: Nvm, I see this is the truffle resource people have been talking about.

 

[Nikolai II]

Finally getting around to watching the stream. Have we seen pigs resource before?
View attachment 705650

Edit: Nvm, I see this is the truffle resource people have been talking about.

Think someone found out it was truffles?

Edit: sneak edit!