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New Diplomacy with barbarians

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Caveman 2 Cosmos' started by Dancing Hoskuld, Apr 24, 2012.

  1. Dancing Hoskuld

    Dancing Hoskuld Chieftain

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    It may not make it into v23 but I am working on some new diplomacy options for interaction with Barbarians and Indigenous People. I am taking ideas from the Barbarian Envoy by Capt_Blondbeard , and White Lies, Black Ops by ooggbboo mods.

    So far I am just doing the simple stuff. Converting the code to use C2C's mission and outcome systems and events for the results. So far I am working on:-

    Barbarian Envoy
    Your diplomat enters a barbarian city and talks to them, ie give them some money. With the following results.
    • They convert to your state religion.
    • They give you some units.
    • They join your nation.
    • They ignore you. IE they want more money. ;)

    White Lies, Black Ops
    Goody Huts become Indigenous People after they have been explored.
    • So far all you can do with them is assimilate them into your nation if they are with in your borders. This gives good events.
    • Leaving them alone should give other events but doesn't yet
    • Raising their village to put your own improvements on them should lead to bad events but does not yet.
     
  2. hotrodlincoln

    hotrodlincoln Upasaka

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    There should be some downsides to letting indigenous people stay, as well. Perhaps they could cause revolt instability, by providing hiding places for criminals, rebels, escaped slaves, terrorists, etc and also because they provide a model of governance that differs from your own nation. Perhaps they may even spawn hidden nationality units every once in a while that raze tile improvements, like native Americans reacting to settlers on their land by burning down crops.

    There should definitely be bonuses to having them, but it shouldn't be so cut-and-dried that nobody ever destroys indigenous villages.
     
  3. T C

    T C Chieftain

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    I also feel that leaving the indigenous people in place should be a double edged sword. Stability and crime penalty would be good.

    What do you plan to do with the goody hut bonuses? Will they stay as they are or change. If they change, I would like to see the free technology changed to something like 'the villagers share some of their knowledge' and say 10-20% towards a particular tech.

    Shouldn't there be a fifth option with barbarian envoy, i.e. the barbarians kill your envoy and steal the gold. ;)

    I would also love to see some more options, like recruiting barbarian mercenaries or bribing the barbarians to attack an enemy civilization. However, I don't know if either are possible.
     
  4. Dancing Hoskuld

    Dancing Hoskuld Chieftain

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    @hotrodlincoln & T_C, you obviously never played WLBO:mischief:

    Assimilating costs a hefty amount of money and means that the indigenous people moves them into your cities so you can work the land. It costs money. Most events are good from then on if your policy towards them is good. IE you have to work to keep up good relations. iirc later your spies can become "agent provocators" and stir up trouble with other people's IPs but I have not gotten that far yet.

    Using the land they are on by a city is supposed to improve relations at the cost of production and food but have not found where this is done. It is also supposed to cause a bunch of events.

    Pillaging or improving the plot where the IPs are is bad.

    Leaving them alone is so-so.

    Goody huts remain the same. However I think we are going to have to review them as they don't seem to be working fully especially the goody islands. Goody islands are currently exempt from this, until I can find some sea terrains.
     
  5. Il Principe

    Il Principe Chieftain

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    Will IPs be sesitive to civics? Because I just can´t imagine them to be too happy with fascism or nationalism( but maybe your own population is, always good to have a minority you can blame ).
    Federalism on the other hand could provide an easy way to integrate them into your nation.
    And slavery... well the slaves have to come from somewhere .
     
  6. Dancing Hoskuld

    Dancing Hoskuld Chieftain

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    You forget that assimilation in the ancient eras probably meant kill all the males and welcome the females thus the culture afterwards if the IP culture. Classic example is Normandy when the former vikings were settled there.

    As for slaves where do you think we got the word family from. :)
     
  7. Vokarya

    Vokarya Chieftain

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    Are there plans for more advanced diplomat units? Or to have the diplomats be used for diplomacy with other full civilizations? Thought I'd ask. I actually really liked the Embassy mechanic from Civ I-II.
     
  8. Dancing Hoskuld

    Dancing Hoskuld Chieftain

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    I have art for classical, industrial and modern diplomats plus the Great Diplomat and the diplomat specialist. Then there is Orion Veteran's mod to pillage. :mischief:

    WLBO has a whole suite of diplomacy with other civs, marry your daughter off or exchange sons as hostages to strengthen ties. Warfare agreements - don't kill non combatants, exchange prisoners, ransom the rich. And so on and on, not all were implemented and I am not sure how many we will be able to implement.

    It uses the event system a great deal but "we" seem to have killed it with too many events. It may need looking at to allow events of different types to happen in the same turn. So we may need to split the events into natural, political and so on. Ori may have ideas on that.

    Not all WLBO is good, terrorist organizations spring up and have to be dealt with, minorities inside your nation may get restless, this on top of revolutions!
     
  9. Il Principe

    Il Principe Chieftain

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    Drool. If this could be ported... I realy like the idea of warfare agreements... with unhappiness and damaged relations of you break them. Or maybe not if you run intollerant or state church and go against the infedels :)

    I would actually like that. It could be tied to relgions and rev maybe? Run a atheist nation with high high rev index.. get relgiously motivated terror groups.
    And the possibilietes in destabilazing others by secretly supporting their terrorists :evil:
     
  10. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    Yeah, sounds like those would add to gameplay for those who already appreciate revolutions.
     
  11. ls612

    ls612 Deity Moderator

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    That means JosEPh is going to hate this. :lol::p
     
  12. Dancing Hoskuld

    Dancing Hoskuld Chieftain

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    No, because he does not play with rev on.

    :( I am finding much less in the WLBO mod than I expected. I think that much of it must have been done in the SDK which I avoid. I will still be adding some of he stuff, it just wont be as extensive as I thought. :(
     
  13. ls612

    ls612 Deity Moderator

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    I was joking, I have no idea what he thinks about this. Sad to hear about the lack of stuff from WLBO though, that was a good mod.
     
  14. Dancing Hoskuld

    Dancing Hoskuld Chieftain

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    I have been thinking that this could be as close as we can get to the Civ V "City States" idea. Especially when I extend it to diplomatic relations with IPs in neutral and other nations territory.
     
  15. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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  16. Dancing Hoskuld

    Dancing Hoskuld Chieftain

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    Just an update. I will now be including some AI nations diplomacy in this as suggested by Gregori here.

    I have to activate the Ind. Peoples python for it to stat being playable. Events are be included.

    Then onto barbarian diplomacy - most of the python is done I just need to link to the missions. Note to self - Must request some buttons.
     
  17. T C

    T C Chieftain

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    Very excited about this, can't wait to see it. :)
     
  18. Dancing Hoskuld

    Dancing Hoskuld Chieftain

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    I need mission buttons for:-
    • Assimilate Ind. peoples
    • Request Aid (Ind. peoples or Barbarians)
    • Spread State Religion (to barbarian city)
    • Speak with barbarian city leaders
     
  19. Vokarya

    Vokarya Chieftain

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    Is the Python for this not quite finished yet? I got a few Python popups.

    View attachment 325312 View attachment 325313 View attachment 325314

    They are all of these two types:
    • AttributeError: 'CyPlayer' object has no attribute 'getNativeOpinion"
    • AttributeError: 'int' object has no attribute 'ePlayer'

    I don't think it's hurting anything, but it makes me wonder if something is not happening that is supposed to happen.
     
  20. Dancing Hoskuld

    Dancing Hoskuld Chieftain

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    Noting should be happening at all yet! I am not getting those errors when I play but it is good to see them. Do you have the PythonErr.log that has them in. It will give me the python line numbers.
     

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