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New Discussion for Article O

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Demo Game V: Citizens' started by Comnenus, Aug 6, 2004.

  1. Comnenus

    Comnenus AKA Kenshin

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Cadillac, MI
    Code:
    Article O
                 The area contained within the national boundaries of Japanatica 
                 shall be divided into areas called provinces, each of which 
                 is under the control of a Provincial Governor. Provincial 
                 boundaries shall be defined by the Executive Branch, and may 
                 extend beyond the cultural boundaries. City locations shall be 
                 determined by the People in polls to be conducted prior to each
                 turnchat.
    
    Seeing as how Article O has failed once again, lets boil it down to its most basic substance. It defines Provinces. Provinces are made of cities. The people can define where the cities go, and the executives can decide on where the boundaries are.

    Hopefully we can get some discussion of this topic, but I sense weariness amongst the populace on this sort of discussion.
     
  2. superpelon

    superpelon DemoGame Pelon

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    Location:
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    I voted for this article. Its a good idea. Ill vote for it again. IN THE NAME OF SID!!! LOWER THE QUORUM!!

    Please citizens!! support this!!
     
  3. GenMarshall

    GenMarshall Night Elven Ghost Agent

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    Location:
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    I agree, I just hope that the proposal that would do that would pass sucsessfully.
     
  4. Comnenus

    Comnenus AKA Kenshin

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    Location:
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    Well, that is something we can't control. That is in the control of about 4 or 5 people here. They seem to like being able to deny 85 - 92% of the citizens the right to make a difference.

    All we can do is keep coming up with ideas. Personally, I'm not sure I will submit this or the other ones that fail until after the next general election. If we don't have widespread voter fraud it may be able to get through. Maybe.
    Here's hoping! :beer:

    Now, does anyone have any comments on the wording? I did change it significantly.
     
  5. ravensfire

    ravensfire Member of the Opposition

    Joined:
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    Location:
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    With both E and O failing - how about merging the two of them?

    Code:
    Article E. Legislative Branch
    
    The Legislative Branch will be formed of one House of the People.      
           	1.The House of the People will be formed of the entirety of the
                   citizenry and is responsible for the drafting of new Laws and
                   Amendments to the Constitution. Proposed legislation will be
                   presented to the Judicial Branch for review.
    	2.Provincial Governors shall be elected from among the citizens,
                   with one Governor elected for each Province. Governors are
                   responsible for labor allocation, build queues and all uses of 
                   population for the cities they control.  Discussions on Provincial 
                   borders and city placement are lead by the Minister of Domestic 
                   Affairs.
    
    Quite honestly, the province and city stuff should be in Article D (and should have been all along). The current Article O is wordy and not needed. The above proposal gets the job done, makes it clear who does what.

    In addition, it makes clear what Governors can, and cannot, do. This appeared to be missing from the current law.

    -- Ravensfire
     
  6. mhcarver

    mhcarver Newspaper Mogul

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    I like the merged article but I wonder does anyone think it would be possible to investigate the alleged(and likely) voter fraud and just use it to declare a few people ineligible and therefore lower Quorom just enough to pass this freakin article
     
  7. Comnenus

    Comnenus AKA Kenshin

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    Location:
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    I am not sure that would be legal, but it would probably be up to the mods.
     
  8. Comnenus

    Comnenus AKA Kenshin

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Cadillac, MI
    Code:
    Article E. Legislative Branch
    
    The Legislative Branch will be formed of one House of the People.      
           	1.The House of the People will be formed of the entirety of the
              citizenry and is responsible for the drafting of new Laws and
              Amendments to the Constitution in accordance with procedures
              set forth by the Judicial Branch. Proposed legislation will be
              presented to the Judicial Branch for review.
            2.The area contained within the national boundaries of Japanatica 
              shall be divided into areas called provinces, each of which 
              is under the control of a Provincial Governor. Provincial 
              boundaries shall be defined by the Executive Branch, and may 
              extend beyond the cultural boundaries. City locations shall be 
              determined by the People in polls to be conducted prior to each
              turnchat. Provincial Governors shall be elected from among the 
              citizens, with one Governor elected for each Province. Each 
              Governor will advise the House on the state of their individual
              province and make recommendations. Governors are responsible for
              labor allocation, build queues and all uses of population for the
              cities they control.  Discussions on Provincial borders and city
              placement are led by the Minister of Domestic Affairs.
    
    This combines both Articles E and O. Any comments?
     
  9. Black_Hole

    Black_Hole Deity

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2004
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    3,424
    i like the idea, because it only takes 1 article to pass not 2, thus we have a better change of passing it...
     
  10. zorven

    zorven 12,000 Suns

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    1) "City locations shall be determined by the People in polls to be conducted prior to each turnchat."

    If the People are making this decision, then shouldn't it be under the House section?

    2) "Each Governor will advise the House on the state of their individual province and make recommendations."

    What does this mean? What is the purpose?

    3) "Provincial boundaries shall be defined by the Executive Branch"

    The whole Executive Branch? Why not choose 1? Or make 1 leader responsible for making proposals to the House.

    Overall, I find it a bit too wordy. Except for defining what a province is, I think Ravensfire's proposal accomplishes the intent of yours much more succinctly.
     
  11. Comnenus

    Comnenus AKA Kenshin

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    Cadillac, MI
    The section on the House more specifically covers legislation, but this could easily be changed.

    The governors will make recommendations via discussion threads and polls as to what needs to be accomplished in their provinces, as they see it.

    Yes, the whole Executive. Since the people as a whole have such difficulty coming to any decision, I thought that it should go to the Executive. The whole idea of any Executive Branch is to make decisions. Gameplay decisions should be in the hands of the people, but management decisions should be in the hands of the Executive. I felt this is a management type decision. If it garners no support then it can be changed.

    WHAT??? Ravensfire had nothing to do with this. Please check your facts before you speak. That was a copy of an article from a thread I started into this one. Is my work original? Hardly. I won't claim that it is, but give credit where credit is due.

    As far as being wordy, I don't know what you expect from the merging of two different documents. Please enlighten us by writing an Article that covers all the points.
     
  12. ravensfire

    ravensfire Member of the Opposition

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    I believe he's referring to my proposal in this thread. It's a merger of E and 0, in simple, direct language.

    To respond to zorven's comment on my proposal, I didn't want to define anything in the Constitution about how to define a province. That needs to be in a lower law. Should my proposal gain support, I'll grab the provincial stuff from DG4 and toss that out as a starter (with the clarifications that were made as well).

    -- Ravensfire
     
  13. Cyc

    Cyc Looking for the door...

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    Now that Article I has passed, it appears the poll for Articles E, H, and O would have passed with the current restrictions. I suggest we run those Proposed Amendments as they are and see what happens? What do you think?
     
  14. Donovan Zoi

    Donovan Zoi The Return

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    I am all for it, Cyc. If Article E weren't missing from our Constitution, I may consider alterations at this time. However, since this is not the case, we should resubmit these immediately.
     
  15. mhcarver

    mhcarver Newspaper Mogul

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    Since both the discussion's have been open for 24+ hours can we open the new polls as they were before and hope that third times the charm?
     
  16. Comnenus

    Comnenus AKA Kenshin

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    Cadillac, MI
    New polls have been created for Articles E and O. There are no changes to them, so they can be resubmitted without further discussion or Judicial Review.

    The Article E Poll and The Article O Poll
     

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