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New DLC on December 16

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by Supr49er, Dec 9, 2010.

  1. Celevin

    Celevin King

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    I remember the days when a game would come out with bugs, there would be no patches to fix them, and nobody would complain. This happened both pre and post-internet for both console and PC titles.

    If the main game is worth the cost, I will buy it. If I deem the DLC is worth its cost afterwards, I will buy it. I'm not seeing the problem. Do you think that, by making the DLC and charging you for it, Firaxis is taking another service away from you? Do you think they are legally obligated to work on patches for you?

    I'm just not seeing the arguments. You paid for the product, the product worked at launch better than most of the stuff out there. No, it's not Blizzard or Valve quality, but that's why they're the best. I mean god, I bought Lords of the Realm 3. Civ5 didn't have a bad launch at all.
     
  2. Louis XXIV

    Louis XXIV Le Roi Soleil

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    From what I hear, it seems like every video game is more expensive in Australia. I wonder if there's something government related (or maybe it's just because they can charge you more, who knows :dunno: ).

    My guess is the Dawn of Man for many civs was recorded already. It makes far more sense to have them all recorded at once. Art is something that would take a lot longer, so I doubt they finished everything.
     
  3. PieceOfMind

    PieceOfMind Drill IV Defender Retired Moderator

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    Attempts of various forumers to find this mysterious tax have been fruitless. Many (maybe even most) games on steam are sold at identical prices in both regions. The difference is almost certainly down to how the publisher (or possibly Valve) decides to set the price. You are right that Aussies are used to it - doesn't make them happy about it. Whatever the case, my prediction is $10 (USD).
     
  4. Androrc the Orc

    Androrc the Orc Emperor

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    It didn't, mostly. Imperialism, Oddworld, Age of Empires, etc. all were launched with virtually no showstopping bugs.
     
  5. Morningcalm

    Morningcalm Keeper of Records

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    You know why it sounded like sarcasm? Because my argument wasn't the sort of hysterical, revolt against the government sort of argument that you're making it sound like. I am vehemently opposed to DLC but that doesn't mean *scoff* that I'll be joining a Customer Advocacy Group soon.

    Every aspect of the game was hardly criticized by me in this thread. Hyperbole much? I've criticised the DLC. Yup. And that was clear from the beginning. I complained about the Mongolia DLC because it's related to DLC, and yes, the fact that it didn't last as long says much about the nature of the DLC 2K/Firaxis has been releasing. They didn't even bother to change Gandhi in the scenario. Apparently glasses existed at the time of the Mongolian advance. Riiight.

    I don't see how I've been anything other than directed. I have responded to your points, one by one, and maybe that structure of my response is what makes you think I'm criticizing everything left and right. This is hardly a "battle" (again, hyperbole) so much as me being angry at 2K for their practices, and voicing my dissent.

    Serial complainer? Hardly. I've complained about the DLC in this thread, and found issues with your dislike/critiques/brusque attitude/contempt towards WoW's "DLC" model. Serial complainer? Again with the hyperbole. If we could just stop with the name-calling please.

    Exactly. CiV has launched with some showstopping bugs (mostly crash issues). And numerous serious ones still exist. The upcoming patch should hopefully address them, but I'll remain heathily doubtful for now. It will mean I'll be less disappointed if they should fail to remedy all the problems.

    I am pretty sure two posters commented on the Keshik art being in the assets folder pre-decryption. It was a pre-release thread, that much I remember for certain.

    Apparently my voicing dissent is disagreeable to you, fine. I have no problem with that. I do have a problem with you saying "leave Firaxis alone." If they deserve criticism, you can expect critics. As a human being, I have the right to free speech here, and I haven't stooped to insults or trolling or suchlike in the course of my discussion here.
     
  6. Mzrokks

    Mzrokks Rammy VS the World

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    Inca looks cheesy.
    Isabella looks...different than what I expected.






     

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  7. Morningcalm

    Morningcalm Keeper of Records

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    Nice to have the leader visuals in. For some reason I expected Pacachuti to look older, but maybe I am being unduly influenced by Where in Time is Carmen Sandiego, lol. I do like how many aspects of his presentation are based on a famous statue of him in Aguas Calientes (search Wikipedia and you'll find it--the statue even has exactly 3 feathers in the headdress). The colors and textures of Paca look a bit plasticky somehow, but that is probably one of the best leader backgrounds in the game. Ever. Very expansive, and the leader doesn't block the view.

    Isabella's veil is shown on some portraits, but it's true that she looks quite odd. Slightly more like a nun than a queen. I was expecting her to be seen in front of Spanish ships or other--to make the Columbus connection more obvious, but as Spain doesn't have an Armada bonus in the game, guess the closed garden is more appropriate visually.
     
  8. Gallean88

    Gallean88 Squid Gynaecologist

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    Ugh, so what do we have? 2 moderately weak sounding UAs, a useless lancer-based UU, a pretty cool musket/pike and archer replacement, and an improvement that likely boosts one of the best ATM (hill farm). All in all, its a pretty mixed bag. I'd liked to have seen spain get some sort of UB instead, and only have a Tercio (or maybe a conquistador as much as I despise lancers).
     
  9. Morningcalm

    Morningcalm Keeper of Records

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    Yea, as nice as the visuals are, the civs themselves are weak. Which might be a good thing, considering how OP Babylon and Mongolia were.

    I have a suggestion that might make the civs a bit more interesting...It might be advisable in future to have Civ5 civs have 3 units/buildings/tile improvements rather than the current 2. That way Greece would get its Odeon, the Romans their forum, among others. It would make the civs a bit more flavored than they currently are. Maybe leader traits or civ traits of some kind which can be customized from the beginning of the game would work.
     
  10. SerriaFox

    SerriaFox King

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    And I remember when you could take back games that were buggy
     
  11. Zyxpsilon

    Zyxpsilon Running Spider

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    Agrrrrreeeedddd for flavors enhancing UU/UB and instead of a single check_this_box option to randomize "personalities" a more refined feature with additional control over traits would be most welcomed!

    I'd even use a re-coloring choice for my startup leaders (maybe for opponents too); WordBuilder provides *plenty* of alternate combinations in its listing -- so should the pre-game advanced setup phase.
     
  12. PieceOfMind

    PieceOfMind Drill IV Defender Retired Moderator

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    I was talking about consumer advocacy, not customer advocacy. I don't know much about the latter, but from looking it up it looks to be quite a different thing, so I hope you weren't getting the wrong idea of what I was suggesting.

    Ok, a bit of hyperbole I admit. That said, there are a lot of things you have criticised, particularly in this thread.


    Let's have a look at what you've criticised. (includes hyperbole?)
    Spoiler :

    You claim that charging money for the pre-order exclusives is a disgusting business practice. Presumably you mean these things should not be released later at all.

    In this post you appear to argue that the things other people got free you should have gotten free too, or that they should have not gotten that thing for free at all. This is pretty much the definition of envy.

    Screwed.

    Swindled.

    Your 'suffering' here is not getting something for free. If this is what suffering is to you, then believe me you have a good life.

    Horrible misfortune.



    Furthmore in this thread you have criticised:
    -(Indirectly) that civ5 DLC profits do not partially go to charity, or not as much as WoW's DLC
    -DLC in civ5 affects gameplay.
    -DLC in civ5 does not work properly in multiplayer.
    -DLC for Civ doesn't last as long as the pseudo-free DLC for WoW
    -"Genghis, which is more or less damage control--and damage control DLC of which people got bored of quickly"
    -"what sucks even more about CiV's DLC release plans is that the DLC civs were more or less made BEFORE the game was released, and then trickled out as DLC for money." (probably incorrect, but you make this criticisms nonetheless)
    -"Having more civs to choose from than other people means your game is more "complete". This in my opinion is stupid."
    "CiV’s DLC is more screwy because no one wants to feel like their game is somehow less complete."

    -"I'm complaining that there's DLC at all. If they finished the civs before the release of the game, they should have released it with the base game, rather than trickling it out to customers to get money (and we all know they'll be included in a future expansion anyway, so we're paying extra to "rent" the DLC basically)."
    -Steam didn't let you cancel your preorder.
    -"CiV is a Singleplayer game, or at least, it’s largely played that way. Therefore this DLC option stinks, though we don’t have to pay a subscription monthly—that’s because of the way the game is (largely SP, not an MMORPG). That doesn’t give Firaxis permission to screw players out of content that would have been with the game originally, but which was withheld for monetary purposes."
    -"Unlike CiV's patches, the WoW patches tend to include quite a bit of additional content. It's nice the upcoming patch will have more wonders, but that doesn't compare to having low-level zones entirely revamped in WoW."
    -I'm complaining that 2K/Firaxis didn't let their customers know of the pre-order options earlier.
    -"Firaxis didn't make the game moddable. They said it would be the most moddable civ ever, yet the SDK that came with the game's first patch (or around about that time) came with severe limitations, as many modders made the community aware of through this forum. The upcoming patch will change that slightly. But the pre-release talk of this being the most moddable Civ was fairly close to marketing pep talk--all talk, no walk."

    From what I've read, it's a bit all over the place, and you've mixed in your complaints that should be directed at either or both of D2D and Valve.
    Maybe for your and my benefit you could summarise in just one post what exactly is your main argument against whatever business practice it is you're disagreeing with. It's probably best not to mix in your criticisms of Steam/Valve/D2D in with it.

    Yes, I have quite a negative attitude at the way Blizzard delivers WoW to its players. I believe it rakes in far more money from its players than it really deserves. If it has a 'fairer' DLC model (which I suspect won't last forever by the way - eventually there will be DLC that affects the game a bit more than just aesthetics) than civ5 I don't believe a direct comparison between the 2 games (WoW and Civ5) is really fair. One of the games would have collected money in the order of hundreds dollars from its players while the other has collected at most $65 (if North Americans). Also one of the game has a player base of millions while the other has a player base probably in the hundreds of thousands (or thereabouts).

    Naturally, if a particular DLC can reach a much larger audience the developer could conceivably charge a lower price for that DLC, possibly even to the point of the DLC being free or practically free. TF2 has a huge fanbase and the positive rep generated by its free DLC was already enough to justify giving it to the players. Blizzard with WoW already collect millions of dollars every month. The fact you've described their regular added content as "pseudo-free" says a lot IMO. Thinking about it as 'free' is something you are probably more like to do if you have a positive attitude towards the game. A more objective measure would involve something like summing up the money you've spent over the years on the game and dividing it into the number of large patches that have added content for you. It's not quite that simple, but you get the idea.

    One last time, I would like to emphasise the different sizes of the player bases is extremely important. Players typically have the "me me me" approach and judge DLC purely on how much content they feel they get for the price they pay. This is fairly rational I guess, but doesn't provide the whole picture. Some $15 DSi-ware game that only sells to a thousand or so customers is probably not going to provide as much content or entertainment value as one third of civ5. I'm sure lots of similar examples/comparisons can be found in other apps or games that reach a smaller sized audience.

    Blizzard with WoW have a significant advantage in this sense. When they create new content they have a larger audience and thus can probably provide greater value to customer.

    It's probably true. Art assets for Genghis must have been well underway at release time if it only took a month after release to see the DLC. Does this mean it could have been included at release? Perhaps... Who knows? We can only speculate.

    I think one of the things you've done in this thread which has admittedly rubbed me the wrong way is speak of DLC as being held back at release, as if you had access to damning evidence revealing it was so. It would probably be less disagreeable if you made it clearer you were speculating.

    Hope this clears things up a bit more.
     
  13. Celevin

    Celevin King

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    And Civ5 launched with barely any showstopping bugs. I played 100 hours in the first 2 weeks (my poor girlfriend...). I had maybe a couple crashes in that time. These crashes are now being worked on.

    Comparing to previous Civ titles, Civ1 was a balance nightmare where the ICS strategy put Civ5's ICS to shame. Civ3 had similar balance issues. Civ4 was near unplayable due to crashes. (I don't really remember Civ2's launch :( ). The difference is with older titles we weren't as scrutinizing when it comes to balances and bugs. We as a whole have become VERY critical.

    And what are present day developers supposed to do, with the market in its current state? If they let people delete games and get re-imbursed, it would be complete hell to try and stop people from cheating the system, and they would see a lot of returns with people just being tappity. This might be a dumb comparison, but after online trading came out, there was a massive decrease in the time people held a stock. It used to be something like an average of 6 months to a year, and it's now down to a couple weeks. People won't give something a second chance.

    Secondly the game was released with a demo on the same day. If you didn't like the demo, *don't buy the game*! I didn't see that around 10, 20 years ago.
     
  14. Churchill's Hat

    Churchill's Hat Mortal

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    I actually really like the Incas. Their UA will save a lot of money, and then a granary replacement means that they could use that money for happiness and be a premier expansion civ.

    I'm not sure about Spain yet. But I really love the Tercio graphics.
     
  15. lschnarch

    lschnarch Emperor

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    Not for North Americans (which actually might be a reason why the game sales are not very good in other parts of the world).
     
  16. Honorable_Pawn

    Honorable_Pawn Warlord

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    Forget about gameplay mechanics, does anyone know where I can get some action-figurines? I sure hope they spent time and money developing a set of Aztec warriros. I can't wait to play with them. Hopefully they will be about the same size as my cowboys and indians.

    Man,

    That'll be fun!!!!
     
  17. moksheebs

    moksheebs Kuala Lumpur GDR

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    w00t
    we asked for Spain...
    for so long...
    and finally...
    they give!
    w00t
     
  18. Louis XXIV

    Louis XXIV Le Roi Soleil

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    If you have a link to a thread, it would be helpful. I've searched all over the place and can't find the thread that had the pre-encryption info at all. A search for Keshik turned up nothing.

    The biggest discovery I remember from that thread was the Mogolia thing and the biggest discussion centered around everybody confusing Regions for Religions. I figure I would have remembered the Keshik thing, but I could be wrong.
     
  19. lietkynes

    lietkynes Hello sword !

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    Isabella with that angry look and a christian cross in her hand is epic :D
     
  20. Pouakai

    Pouakai It belongs in a museum. Moderator

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    Wow. Firstly everyone complains that Spain isn't in the base game, then they complain that it's a DLC.

    I for one love DLC civs, and am going to buy them. The Incan farm replacement looks amazing, as does all the unit art thus far seen.
     

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